Why do MOST Catholics not know bible well?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dizzy_dave
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Zooey,

Thank you, because you have proved my point exactly. Tyndale lived in a time when anyone could be executed for speaking out against the authorities.

Today the prevailing Naturalist-Materialist view threatens our future of being able to freely proclaim the gospel. For now we have that freedom. Don’t you expect God will hold us accountable for using this freedom to Know his Will by reading His Word?
 
I went to 12 years of Catholic school and we learned from the Bible, but not nearly enough. I think they concentrate too much on other things in religion class. They had me learning about other religions before I even knew the Bible very well. I remember we had a course called “Death and Dying” in high school, it was an entire semester dedicated to how people of different religions bury thier dead and deal with loss…WHO CARES?! That is a whole semester that could have been dedicated to learning the bible. We did have one class just called “Old Testament” and that was actually pretty cool and I learned a lot, but wish it was a longer class. I also think one of the biggest scams in school is Study Hall when you use up a class period to sit around and work on homework…that is more time that they could use for a class on the Bible and it doesn’t even have to be graded or given homeowork just teach students apologetics type stuff or something.
No need to grunt about Death and Dying course in order to get good Bible education…they are both important—and if it includes biblical study of the ailing, (i.e., Christ healing the ill, etc.), then it could be even more valuable.😉 Well, okay, I don’t give a hoot about how Hindus do their rituals, so you have a point there. 😦
 
NPS,
What false thing did I say?
To say that Tyndale was executed simply for translating the bible into English is completely false.

To say, as you do, “Make no mistake, Tyndale’s only crime was proclaiming the gospel” is completely false.

To imply that Tyndale was some sort of freedom fighter to whom we owe our “right” to read the bible is completely ahistorical and false.

We owe our freedom and luxury of reading the bible to that same institution which, through the grace of the Holy Spirit, discerned what should be considered Holy Scripture, *codified *that scripture, protected that scripture, painstakingingly copied that scripture, defended that scripture, passed down that scripture intact through the centuries, and translated that scripture into dozens upon dozens of vernacular languages. The same institution who has had an ongoing 2000-year love affair with God’s Holy Word.

It is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, working through the grace of the Holy Spirit, who deserves credit for our ability to so easily pick up and read the bible today.
 
NPS,
Given your reverence for the Holy Scripture please explain to me evident lack of biblical knowledge among Catholics in general.

As for Tyndale, it was not my intention to turn this in to a discussion about him. I just used him as an illustration, that freedom of conscience we enjoy today, cannot be taken for granted. Whether or not you agree with Tyndale’s theology is NOT the point. Even if it were, could you not agree that God can draw a straight line with a crooked stick. Having been accused of heresy and treason, he was in good company, sharing the same charges as his Lord Jesus Christ, and the Apostles Paul and Peter. He is still a martyr in the cause for freedom.

He was infact engaged in translating the bible into English. He was put in prison and executed for that “crime”.

Today we can proclaim the gospel without fear of reprisal. Tell me how is it that many who claim to be Christians can be so woefully ignorant of God’s Word. Did not Jesus himself say, “If you love me, keep my commandments.” How does one do this if one remains ignorant of Scripture?
 
It is not my intention to make this a Tyndale thread. I am simply compelled to point out false statements and gross generalizations. Your strained analogy of a renegade priest to Our Lord and the Apostle Paul is off-base. Zooey’s analogy of JWs is closer to the point. Yes, today JW’s (etc) have the “freedom” to preach falsely. Yes, today [certain groups] have the “freedom” to slice and dice God’s Holy Word without fear of imprisonment. You have the “freedom” to believe that the bible in your hands is a complete bible. Did Tyndale “deserve” to die at the hands of the monarchy? Of course not. Was Tyndale killed “simply for preaching the gospel”, same as Our Lord and the Apostle Paul? Hardly.
NPS,
Given your reverence for the Holy Scripture please explain to me evident lack of biblical knowledge among Catholics in general.
I simply reject the theory that there is an “evident lack of biblical knowledge among Catholics in general” as compared to any other denomination. I believe this to be a canard. I believe it to be convenient personal opinion dressed up as “common knowledge.” I believe it to be an oft-repeated assertion by non-Catholics who feel a sort of denominational inferiority complex.
I believe that it is used by those who wish to compensate for their own doubts about the shortcomings of their own denomination to feel a superiority to people belonging to that Church which holds an unspoken place of primacy.
Tell me how is it that many who claim to be Christians can be so woefully ignorant of God’s Word.
If, as it reads in this context, you are making this statement of Catholics in particular you should be ashamed of yourself. Do Catholics only “claim” to be christians? Are Catholics so “woefully ignorant”? I would certainly love to know how you come by these “facts” you throw out at us so boldy.

Personally, I have, in the last few years, spent literally (it sticks in my throat to acknowledge it) hundreds of hours in conversation/debate/arguing/exploring the faith online and in group and one-on-one situations. I have NEVER run across any evidence whatsoever that ANY group or denomination has an “edge” or a singular deficiency in reading/knowing the bible. I have found that it appears to be an individual thing. Are there denominational influences which lend themselves to the possiblity of increased biblical study? Probably. But is there one particular group which has ingrained deficiencies for biblical study? Wishful thinking on anti-Catholics part, I’d say. What you regard as “fact” sounds an awful lot like ignorant rhetoric.

As I said earlier, I believe a fairly low percentage of people from ANY DENOMINATION can tell you much about the who, what, why, where, context, and overall intent of any given book or gospel, much less memorize it.

I have found that there are scads of individuals who spout verses they have memorized which they think “proves” this or that. It is often through this “verse-slapping” that people gain the reputation of “knowing” the bible. I have found through much experience that the reputation certain groups have of “knowing” the bible is greatly----greatly—exaggerated.

The above I acknowledge as my opinion, albeit one based on much experience and much inter-denominational interaction. I only ask that others who give us “facts” do the same.
Did not Jesus himself say, “If you love me, keep my commandments.” How does one do this if one remains ignorant of Scripture?
This is a non-sequitur. I missed the part where Jesus then told us to read this great book He was preparing to publish 300 years in the future.

People had no bible to read. They went to the Church to learn the gospel. They listened to what was handed down to them orally.
They were taught by the apostles and by those whom the apostles handed on authority for teaching. They took part in the sacraments. They took part in the life of the Church.

(There are reasons and/or practices in different denominations which I believe help people to not feel an immediate need to study the bible. I’ll go on about that later as I’ve posted too long already.)
 
Today the prevailing Naturalist-Materialist view threatens our future of being able to freely proclaim the gospel. For now we have that freedom. Don’t you expect God will hold us accountable for using this freedom to Know his Will by reading His Word?
Definitely agree. We all should be doing better—I know I should.

It’s not enough, though, to simply read. We must all strive to understand and live God’s word. We can negate all the hours spent reading by acting like our own little infallible interpreter and by picking and choosing what suits our current beliefs.

It is imperative to read the bible in context of the teachings of Christ and the apostles which has been handed down through His Church.
 
NPS,
In case you hadn’t noticed the theme of this thread is

“Why do MOST Catholics not know the bible well?”

I think all Christians are enjoined to know the bible well. If you don’t believe Jesus taught this, then you don’t know Scripture.

See Luke 16:19-31

The Scribes and Pharisees thought they had the infallible understanding of the truth. What did Jesus say about them in Matthew 23?

They also claimed to be sons of Abraham entitled to the inheritance of the kingdom of God, what did the Baptist tell them?

The point of knowing scripture is so we can apply it to our lives and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us so that we can do as we’ve been commanded to build the kingdom. But if you don’t know the Scripture then you close yourself off from the opportunity to grow learn and contribute as a Christian.
 
Here is what wiki has on Tyndale…
There may lie part your problem. Wikipedia is a **nototiously **unreliable source of facts, including eclesiastical history. I recommend a more scholarly source or sources.

As you aquire a more balanced view, you will find that Tyndale was not the martyr you have been led to believe he was, and the conditions surrounding his activities and death are not that simple.
 
The Scribes and Pharisees thought they had the infallible understanding of the truth. What did Jesus say about them in Matthew 23?

They also claimed to be sons of Abraham entitled to the inheritance of the kingdom of God, what did the Baptist tell them?

The point of knowing scripture is so we can apply it to our lives and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us so that we can do as we’ve been commanded to build the kingdom. But if you don’t know the Scripture then you close yourself off from the opportunity to grow learn and contribute as a Christian.
By the same token, many so-called Bible Christians also claim infallible understanding of the Scriptures, not unlike the Pharisees.

There is a big difference between reading the Bible cover to cover and living it under doctrinal guidance of the Magisterium.
 
NPS,
In case you hadn’t noticed the theme of this thread is
“Why do MOST Catholics not know the bible well?”
Yep, I noticed. That’s what I am discussing. The implication of some and the outright statements of others make plain that the belief is that Catholics are alone in this regard.
I strongly disagree. I see this as the first step in understanding the problem.
I think all Christians are enjoined to know the bible well. If you don’t believe Jesus taught this, then you don’t know Scripture.
See Luke 16:19-31
:confused: Did I say that all Christians have no need to know the bible well? What does Luke 16 have to do with this? (You’ll have to explain it to me—I’m Catholic and we’re not allowed to even see the bible;) )
The Scribes and Pharisees thought they had the infallible understanding of the truth. What did Jesus say about them in Matthew 23?
They also claimed to be sons of Abraham entitled to the inheritance of the kingdom of God, what did the Baptist tell them?
Going pretty far afield here, notsocleargospel.
I forgot to tell you another axiom I learned along the way:
Posting references to vaguely applicable passages simply to bolster your own unfocused arguments does not mean you know the bible.

Then again…it does seem kinda fun. We can see from Acts 10:12 how Protestants have misinterpreted God’s word despite the warnings from Ezekiel 41:23-26 about those who would play pop music instead of reading the scriptures. And Paul’s Letter to the Philadelphians shows how vulnerable humankind is to self-interpretation and false teaching.
*
The point of knowing scripture is so we can apply it to our lives and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us so that we can do as we’ve been commanded to build the kingdom. But if you don’t know the Scripture then you close yourself off from the opportunity to grow learn and contribute as a Christian.
Sounds reasonable.*
 
chancellare, fidelis and NPS

I’m sorry but you guys are just blowing smoke. NOT one of you has demonstrated the ability to deal with the simple text of the Word of God. This fact clearly illustrates the validity of the very theme of this thread.

Its just a lot of huffing and puffing.

Stick with the facts.

Luke 16:19-31. Its only 12 verses long:

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[a] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25"But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27"He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

**29"Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30" ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ "

**

Matthew 22:29: Jesus replied, You err because you do not know the scriptures.
 
Let’s be clear, I do NOT subscribe to the doctrine of private interpretation of Scripture.

Although I wouldn’t personally endorse the wide variety of methodologies of evangelism, I won’t condemn them out of hand because that would risk the unpardonable sin of denying the work of the Holy Spirit. I rest confidnet in Isaiah 55:11 and the knowledge that God can indeed draw a straight line with a crooked stick.

I humbly beseech you learned men to provide this poor pilgrim with the official “NIHIL OBSTAT IMPRAMATUR” infallible dogmatic de fide interpretation of Luke 16:19-31; Matthew 23; and Luke 3:7-9.

Very Respectfully your servant,
cg99

PS: I looked up Acts 10-12 and Ezekiel 41:23-26, and I don’t get the reference to pop music and Protestants. Would you please elaborate.
 
chancellare, fidelis and NPS

I’m sorry but you guys are just blowing smoke. NOT one of you has demonstrated the ability to deal with the simple text of the Word of God. This fact clearly illustrates the validity of the very theme of this thread.

Its just a lot of huffing and puffing.

Stick with the facts.

Luke 16:19-31. Its only 12 verses long:

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[a] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25"But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27"He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

**29"Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30" ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ "

**

Matthew 22:29: Jesus replied, You err because you do not know the scriptures.
Yours is a bigger smoke.

Anybody who says:
“The Scribes and Pharisees thought they had the infallible understanding of the truth”
And proceeds to belittle the ability of others:
“NOT one of you has demonstrated the ability to deal with the simple text of the Word of God”

Sounds like another pharisee to me.
 
chancellare, **fidelis **and NPS

I’m sorry but you guys are just blowing smoke. NOT one of you has demonstrated the ability to deal with the simple text of the Word of God. This fact clearly illustrates the validity of the very theme of this thread.

Its just a lot of huffing and puffing.

Stick with the facts.
:mad: I beg your pardon?? I only addressed your historical ignorance of Tyndale. How **in blazes **did I get on your list of those who have not “demonstrated the ability to deal with the simple text of the Word of God”??:mad:
 
Gentlemen,

I must apologize if I have caused offense. It was not my intention to do so. I was looking for a place called Catholic Answers Forum.

Where can I find someone who can give the Catholic Answer to:
Luke 16:19-31; Luke 3:7-9; and Matthew 23?

Point me in the right direction and I will depart this little sandbox be on my way.

V/R
cg99

John 8:47
7He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
 
Zooey,

Thank you, because you have proved my point exactly. Tyndale lived in a time when anyone could be executed for speaking out against the authorities.

Today the prevailing Naturalist-Materialist view threatens our future of being able to freely proclaim the gospel. For now we have that freedom. Don’t you expect God will hold us accountable for using this freedom to Know his Will by reading His Word?
This is very difficult for me because (A) I don’t believe in the daeth penalty, & (B) I’m :irish3: , & it :cool: pains me to agree with Henry VIII (or Elizabeth 2 for that matter) about anything.

However: If** I** had been an authority in Tyndale’s time, and if he had been causing as much mischief in my (mythical) realm, as he caused in Henry’s very real one, and if my people managed to lay their hands on him…
http://bestsmileys.com/dead/8.gif
<<<<Tyndale.


The man was fomenting revolution. People were dying over his political, not religious, crimes.
Tyndale was no hero. He was a perfect scoundrel, who managed to cloak himself in enough religious smoke & mirrors to gain the aid of religious dissidents. They were badly deceived, & they suffered as a result.
How he ever got to be considered a “freedom fighter” is beyond my comprehension.Probably :whistle: something like the way that :eek: Che Guevara came to be a symbol of freedom to a whole generation of American teenagers. (I was:o one of them…I remember planning how I was going to:rotfl: go to Bolivia, steal his ashes, & carry back to Cuba. Ah, well. I grew out of it. Thank God!!)

In a few words: I have no idea what that has to do with your point…🤷 much less with proving it.
 
I’m sorry but you guys are just blowing smoke. NOT one of you has demonstrated the ability to deal with the simple text of the Word of God. This fact clearly illustrates the validity of the very theme of this thread.
Its just a lot of huffing and puffing.
Stick with the facts.
http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/1.g...ss/1.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/clueless/1.gif

Gosh, they soundedhttp://bestsmileys.com/clueless/4.gif pretty darn clear to me…
If you hang around for a while, you will quickly perceive that the myth of “Catholics-don’t-read-the-Bible” is…a myth.
 
Gentlemen,

I must apologize if I have caused offense. It was not my intention to do so. I was looking for a place called Catholic Answers Forum.

Where can I find someone who can give the Catholic Answer to:
Luke 16:19-31; Luke 3:7-9; and Matthew 23?

Point me in the right direction and I will depart this little sandbox be on my way.

V/R
cg99
Cleargospel,

If you want to know the Catholic viewpoint on these (or other) Scriptures, then why not start a new thread, instead of derailing this one?
 
In an effort to get this thread back on topic (before it gets locked)

I don’t know why few Catholics don’t know their Bibles better. I think it’s partly due to poor catechesis and partly due to many being ‘cultural’ Catholics,- they were brought up in the faith, but never really knew it or lived it. The pastor at our parish sometimes likes to ask questions during the homily. Many times, I end up answering his questions because I know the Bible fairly well. Once, the Gospel reading mentioned Jesus heading towards Jerusalem, and the priest asked why Jesus was doing this. I said nothing at first, thinking this was an easy question, but no one answered. Finally, I stuck up my hand and said that he was going to Jerusalem to be crucified and die for our sins. After Mass, someone congratulated me on knowing the answer. I said, “That was embarassing; that question was Catholicism 101.”

However, I think the belief that most Protestants know the Bible better than Catholics is a myth. I recall hearing at least one Protestant minister on the radio bemoaning the fact that for most Christians (and he was talking mainly about Protestant Christians, not Catholics) , the Bible remains on the shelf gathering dust. My grandmother attended a Methodist church regularly, but I never saw her crack open a Bible. I’m sure there are as many ‘cultural’ Protestants as there are ‘cultural’ Catholics.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top