Why do MOST Catholics not know bible well?

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Originally Posted by Mannyfit75:
The Catholic Church teaches that Catholics need to interpret the Bible in the light of the teachings of the Catholic Church, the Magisterium. I think it is cited in Dei Verbum, or the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelations written in 18 Nov 1965
Dei Verbum, for sure it’s in there. The Catholic Church never has forbade, at least in its magisterial teaching, Catholics from reading the Bible. It always has, however, set the limits as to how one can but more often than not, cannot, interpret Scripture. This in many ways is good, but because there are formal limits and hermeneutical instructions, limits and instructions perhaps not too easily understood by the average Catholic, the correct interpretation of Scripture can be (falsely) regarded as a task only for the elite scholars who know Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Aramaic and who have years of training at a Pontifical institution.
 
Originally Posted by Bernie P:
Personally I like the idea how through the Sunday and daily readings we follow the liturgical year which in itself gives us continuing re-enforcement of salvation history and the paschal mysteries. This helps me learn the bible more in depth and feeds me with the meat of scriputure weaning me from the first taste of its milk.
I’ve heard that if you go to Mass every Sunday for a year you have covered the most important passages of Scripture. Every day, and you’ve covered something like 3/4 of the Bible. Many Protestant churches in fact have adopted the Catholic rotation of readings.

One difficulty I had, before reading the Bible on my own, apart from the structure of readings, was the inability to put everything together at once. True, most of the Bible is read at Mass throughout the year, but unless the person who attends daily Mass has excellent memory and a fine ability of contextualizing the literary passages of the readings within their surrounding literary passages, drawn from a memory of readings several months previous (and that’s only if the person attends daily Mass), there is a difficulty in understanding what is being said, since it is said apart from a wider context. For example, I would think to myself, this Elijah guy, who exactly is he? Where does he fall into all of this? I remember reading the gospels on my own for the first time. Perhaps 1/2-3/4 of the passages already were quite familiar to me, but I had no clue as to how they related with one another until then. At least, that was my own personal experience.
 
Most Catholics here know the Bible. I have read it many times as well as others. Second, the Catholic Church for 2,000 yrs is only Church founded by Jesus Christ. Jesus established a Church and built it upon Peter, and the Apostle. They in turn pass it down to their successors.

The Successors in turn compile a list of canon of Scripture in the Council of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage.

The Bible you have now, especially was decreed by the Church, especially the NT.

While the majority of the Catholics don’t know their Bible, most Catholics in this forum do.
Mannyfit75,
God bless you my brother, I’m sure you are doing God’s work in Iraq and I will be praying for your safe return home.

You can witness first hand the consequences of religious bigotry, something we Christians are commanded by our Lord to overcome.

Manny if most Catholics on this thread know their Bibles, then it is not evident from the contents of their posts.

How do you know what is true Catholic doctrine unless you were yourself familiar with the full extent of the literal content of the Word of God.

When you rely on the catechism of Rome, over and against the actual text of the Word of God, you risk worshiping the created, not the creator.

Furthermore you are begging the question, assuming the very thing you are trying to prove.

The question for any Christian should be, is the Church I’m in part of the One Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church.

I am certain that I am in the One Holy Catholic Church, because I put my trust in the Word of God, not somebody’s or some institutional pre-digested opinion of the Word of God.

Since there are many churches and countless cults who offer an infallible interpreter, How do you discern truth from falsehood.

How do you Test everything and hold to that which is good? (1 Thess 5:21)

My dear Christian brother, God has called you to be where you are, He has called you to be reconciled to him and to your fellow Christians, whether they be in Rome, or elsewhere.

In the words of my favorite Mormon, Steven Covey, “seek first to understand, and then to be understood.”

I encourage you to be a good Berean and search the scriptures daily to see whether or not I am full of horse pucky.

I’m not trying to get anybody here to abandon their faith. My mission is to help you to grow in understanding, that you might be better equipped to serve the kingdom of God which is at hand.

God Bless you Manny, take care of your troopers, and come home safe.

Ephesians 6:10-18

**10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. **
 
When I first accepted the idea of Christ being my redemptor (as a protestant/Baptist)I use to have these scripture memory cards which I carried around trying to memorizing scripture. Looking back I see now I spent a lot of wasted time trying to memorize the scripture instead of trying to understnad what the scripture was trying to teach me. Otherwise I was collecting words but not the true understanding of the words.

During that time I thought I was interpreting the scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit, what I was really doing was learning how to defend somone elses interpretations, and that was those around me that I put my trust in. I assumed they knew what they were talking about, but in reality they were doing the same as I was.

Now as a Catholic I find that many cradle-Catholics might not know(but many do) scripture by chapter & verse but know complete stories from the Bible and in context. Many of my Protestant freinds may know chapter & verse of a lot of scripture, but they tend to ignore scripture that doesn’t “fit” their beliefs and doctrines or the original context of the scripture.

Personally I like the idea how through the Sunday and daily readings we follow the liturgical year which in itself gives us continuing re-enforcement of salvation history and the paschal mysteries. This helps me learn the bible more in depth and feeds me with the meat of scripture weaning me from the first taste of its milk.

I think Catholics do know the bible just as well as if not better then protestants.
BennieP,

This isn’t an us vs. them proposition. Furthermore you are promoting a form of religious bigotry that perpetuates stereotypes, by dropping a blanket accusation upon people who accepted you as a brother in Christ.

God has promised that his Word will stand. For you to even suggest that there are places where His Word is preached, but it is not effacacious is to make God himself a liar.

Isaiah 55:11 “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”

Furthermore, you come perilously close to denying the work of the Holy Spirit, and that blasphemy leads to eternal spiritual death (Mark 3:28).

But Bennie if you knew your bible better, you would know these things.

God is sovereign in all things and can use the most vile of heretics for the purpose of His glory. Romans 8:28
“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him who have been called according to his purpose.”

So get over yourself and see who is really in charge. Seek out those who proclaim the Gospel. That is the truth. Jesus has overcome sin and death and reconciled us to God the Father our creator, and we who believe have overcome with him.

Once again: Back to the topic---->Why don’t you know these things?
 
Why do MOST Catholics not know the bible well, Protestants usually know it inside and out, forward and backwards. I just was curious what some of you think on this, I’m guilty myself, I don’t knoe a good method of learning it, I read it daily, but I don’t know it.
Are you differentiating between knowing and understanding? I know Einstein’s equation E=mc². Please don’t ask me if I understand it.

But what do you consider knowing? Is it enough to know chapter and verse? To be imbued with the stories of the Old Testament? To be aware of some of the writings of St. Paul?

I have found that Evangelicals - whether knowing it or not - are frequently mostly learning the scriptural versus - chapter & verse - that back up their theological views. A question of what comes first - the chicken or the egg - arises. Do they learn these versus having been discipled in a certain theology? Or do they come to that theology knowing these scriptures?

Catechisis in the US has been deplorable in the past 50 years. I am the first to admit that. But I have found that your average Catholic “pew sitter” hears a lot more scripture through the three year leactionary than your average Evangelical - who will likely be exhorted to READ the scriptures on his own, but will not hear readings in the same way Catholics do. More likely they will hear the scripture in the context of a sermon given by the preacher at their church.
 
BennieP,

This isn’t an us vs. them proposition. Furthermore you are promoting a form of religious bigotry that perpetuates stereotypes, by dropping a blanket accusation upon people who accepted you as a brother in Christ.

God has promised that his Word will stand. For you to even suggest that there are places where His Word is preached, but it is not effacacious is to make God himself a liar.

Isaiah 55:11 “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”

Furthermore, you come perilously close to denying the work of the Holy Spirit, and that blasphemy leads to eternal spiritual death (Mark 3:28).

But Bennie if you knew your bible better, you would know these things.

God is sovereign in all things and can use the most vile of heretics for the purpose of His glory. Romans 8:28
“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him who have been called according to his purpose.”

So get over yourself and see who is really in charge. Seek out those who proclaim the Gospel. That is the truth. Jesus has overcome sin and death and reconciled us to God the Father our creator, and we who believe have overcome with him.

Once again: Back to the topic---->Why don’t you know these things?
I sorry to say that you our pre-judging and misundestanding my comments. For my statement has to do with how I was allowing myself to be lead by others, I was not denying the work of Holy Spirit. For I truly do not deny the working of the Holy Spirit, otherwise I would not allowed that same Holy Spirit lead me into the fullness of the faith. It was through intentsive prayer, reading/ studying of the scriptures, and believe it or not the counseling with my former “protestant” pastor that helped me make the leap of faith into the Catholic Church. I know who is in charge, I also know my own experience, as I look at things through my eyes then and how I do now.

And your use of Mark 3:28 is totally out of context.

As to promoting bigotry? I have a great love for my separated brethern. But I truly do not believe Catholics fall short on knowing the bible compared to protestants. But I do believe protestants fall short in knowing the fullness of the faith. I was a protestant 30 times longer then I have been Catholic.

And I didn’t leave my former church because I was angry or upset with it, I left it to follow the one I love, that is Christ.

What things do you assume I don’t know?

Acts 8:30 -31 So Philip ran up to it and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah out loud. He asked, “Do you understand what you’re reading?” He replied, “How can I unless someone guides me?” So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.
 
Are you differentiating between knowing and understanding? I know Einstein’s equation E=mc². Please don’t ask me if I understand it.

But what do you consider knowing? Is it enough to know chapter and verse? To be imbued with the stories of the Old Testament? To be aware of some of the writings of St. Paul?

I have found that Evangelicals - whether knowing it or not - are frequently mostly learning the scriptural versus - chapter & verse - that back up their theological views. A question of what comes first - the chicken or the egg - arises. Do they learn these versus having been discipled in a certain theology? Or do they come to that theology knowing these scriptures?

Catechisis in the US has been deplorable in the past 50 years. I am the first to admit that. But I have found that your average Catholic “pew sitter” hears a lot more scripture through the three year leactionary than your average Evangelical - who will likely be exhorted to READ the scriptures on his own, but will not hear readings in the same way Catholics do. More likely they will hear the scripture in the context of a sermon given by the preacher at their church.
ASimplesinner,
There are many nominal Protestants as there are nominal Catholics. You’ve heard the term “cafeteria Catholic”, well there are also “buffet Bible-believers.”

God didn’t give us a choice to eat buffet style. It’s an all or nothing proposition. (I wonder why I’m beginning to feel a bit hungry)

But it is God who is sovereign, it is His Word that will not fail, that will not pass away.

**The normative standard of Bible knowledge for all Christians is perfect Bible knowledge. Christ had perfect knowledge of the Scriptures, did he not? **

He is our example to emulate, we are exhorted to know the scripture to write it on our heart. It is a discipline to know God.

Now no man can be perfect in himself. We suffer from the noetic effects of the fall. Therefore the standard of perfection is wholly dependent on Christ’s intercession for us.

That is why, I believe that for the Christian, the Word of God preserved as it is by the Holy Spirit and delivered to us by the Apostles, is in its entirety, the supreme repository for the complete and inerrant knowledge of truth.

Comparing&contrasting whether protestants or catholics know the bible better is an excersize in futility, since most people are going off their own subjective opinion. And it does nothing to increase understanding.

What does matter is that the Word of God is good and we all would do well to enhance our knowledge, exhort each other to do the same, and pray for reconciliation among all those who claim Christ as their savior.

Finally, theology is the study of God, and it is not a matter of subjective personal opinion. It is a matter of science no different that Physics, or Chemistry and as such is a serious discipline.

Many dedicated men have through the years given their lives to this field of endeavor, not to promote their private agendas, but to serve God. We should humbly consider what they have to say, but always in light of 1 Thess 5:21.

very respectfully, your servant
cg99
 
I’ve heard that if you go to Mass every Sunday for a year you have covered the most important passages of Scripture. Every day, and you’ve covered something like 3/4 of the Bible. Many Protestant churches in fact have adopted the Catholic rotation of readings.

One difficulty I had, before reading the Bible on my own, apart from the structure of readings, was the inability to put everything together at once. True, most of the Bible is read at Mass throughout the year, but unless the person who attends daily Mass has excellent memory and a fine ability of contextualizing the literary passages of the readings within their surrounding literary passages, drawn from a memory of readings several months previous (and that’s only if the person attends daily Mass), there is a difficulty in understanding what is being said, since it is said apart from a wider context. For example, I would think to myself, this Elijah guy, who exactly is he? Where does he fall into all of this? I remember reading the gospels on my own for the first time. Perhaps 1/2-3/4 of the passages already were quite familiar to me, but I had no clue as to how they related with one another until then. At least, that was my own personal experience.
For myself I read the daily readings each morning, I use them for personal meditation, I have learned this concept of praying the scriptures, along with the deeper study of the scriptures. It brings the scriptures alive within my heart and I have gone behind just trying to memorize, but trying to allow the Word to live in me.

The Word of God is not just scripture but Christ himself.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not. John 1:1-5

Elijiah? He is pretty cool guy, but sometimes it gets crowded when I try to sit under his broom tree.
 
Let me point out that Protestants here only point out Scripture chapter of verse to support their own “MAN-MADE doctrines” and can cite supposed chapter and verse that contradict Catholic doctrine.

Protestants themselves don’t know the Bible in its Fullness.
:blessyou:

Brother !
Let God enrich You with His Trust, Peace, and mountains moving Faith.
 
Kristopher,

“The first of these was that “serious attention must be given to the content and unity of the whole of Scripture if the meaning of the sacred texts is to be correctly worked out” (DV 12). This means that no properly understood assertion of Scripture will ever contradict another. If it does so, it must be a false interpretation.” James Akin-Catholic Answers

The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture, is the Scripture itself; and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it may be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly. WCoF 1:9

These two concepts seem remarkably similar to me.

In philosophy, this is known as the Law of non-contradiction.
Then I am the one being stupid: I reasoned fallaciously by hastily concluding, that you are referencing “sola scriptura” as valid, and perhaps even exclusive to the understanding of scripture.

I did read the same as you, that scripture in its entirety must be referenced for a correct interpretation; however, I read as well, that traditions of the church, and the philosophical, historical, and theological topics covered by scripture are vast, too vast for their reference to exclude other means of interpretation: be they scriptural, or secular.

I agree, that any interpretation of scripture, must not contradict any other portion of scripture, but this I failed to see as interpretation of scripture as a rule, to be done by scripture: many other sources excluded. It would seem the rule cited in the article would be inclusive not only of scripture interpreted by scripture, but also any source apart from scripture must be consistent across whatever interpretations of scripture exist.

I think that Martin Luther was highly intelligent, perhaps too intelligent for his times, and peers, that he intended “sola scriptura” to be just what is stated in this article, that reading and interpreting scripture in accord with what is present within scripture is requisite to understanding God’s word.

I like this rule, that you cite, and is given in the article provided with previous posts. My experience has shown me, that understanding scripture must be done in its entirety, with all other scriptures; something I have yet to accomplish. Something to do before I die.
 
catholic.com/projects/wolves_in_sheeps_clothing.asp … do apologists [at] CA maintain a double-standard. I can just as easily ascribe all those errors to the failure to abide by Sola Scriptura. … did you consider that Mormons, JWs, Mooneys, and the former Jim Jones Peoples Temple also reject Sola Scriptura. If we are to judge people by the company they keep, the door swings both ways … that’s a bit off topic, I was only pointing out that the WCoF and the Official teaching of CA if not the Catholic Church itself have virtually identical principles for scripture interpretation. …
You are arguing, that Catholics have a lack of knowledge of the Bible as a consequence of failure to interpret scripture, in accord with scripture, that this rule of consistency, of unity across scriptures has been violated to such an extent, that a lack of knowledge about the Bible has become the result?

I listen to K-LOVE, KLVS out of Sacramento. There was a period of time, that even those among Protestants: ministers at a number of local churches in the area where I live, in addition to broadcasts by this nationwide Christian Radio network cited, that most people lacked knowledge of their Bible. I neither state, nor imply that you say, all errors cited in the article by Karl Keating are attributed to a lack of adherence to “Sola Scriptura”. I am saying, this is impossible to do. The problem of ignorance, with respect to scripture is inclusive both of Catholics, and of Protestants.

The other religious, or irreligious groups that you cite are unable to be qualified to substantiate any claim, that rejection of Sola Scriptura alone is sufficient to warrant clear interpretation of scripture–clear interpretation of scripture is the work of the Catholic Church; it is to the Catholic Church that interpretation of scripture has been entrusted, in accord with the Holy Spirit; the Descent, which founded the Church at Pentecost.

You are fallacious to reason, that revelation ended with St. John. Revelation ended with Jesus’ ministry begun at the Wedding at Cana; though, revelation of Jesus’ life, scripture is ceaseless to the extent, that there is much to learn. You know; I suspect, that Scripture does claim–I believe in the Gospel of John: all things pertaining to Christ have remained unwritten, with the explanation, that there is too vast a body of knowledge pertaining to his life, to be written; though it may have been a feat more easily accomplished with a computer keyboard, and Dovorak keyboard as well.

You look to us, to provide you with a scriptural basis to support, that interpretation of scripture must be done not only in accord with scripture, but also with tradition–St. Paul wrote in one or more places, that traditions must be maintained. I will locate the book(s), chapter(s), and verse(s) sometime this week, or the next.

It should, perhaps, be sufficient to say, scripture alone is only “sufficient”, neither exceptional, nor exclusive for reproof, for correction, for teaching. Nowhere in scripture, to my knowledge informed both by Protestant ministers, and Catholic sources is scripture elevated to the same level as the Trinity–the Trinity alone must be the source of all interpretation. Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ’s life; though Christ’s life certainly is well enough established in testimonies both of records belonging to the Roman Empire of Jesus’ day, that concern prosecution against him, hence the Crucifixion, in addition to census data, that would be inclusive of all his living family members, etc.

There is a remarkable comparison between scripture interpreted by scripture, and Sola Scriptura; though, Martin Luther added a word, physically, to the Bible in a particular chapter, and verse, that prior to his schism–did not exist, but this insertion of a word “alone” violated, which number of scriptures with respect to altering scripture? Whatever his intent either known to few, or unknown to all; this would invalidate his claim of “Sola Scriptura”–an accepted doctrine unfounded in scripture, or do you cite that book, chapter, and verse, which he inserted a word “alone” to substantiate your claim, if it is your claim, of “Sola Scriptura”?

I am short on time, and apologuise for awkward, verbose, sentences. Ask for clarification, should you need it, thank you!
 
Church Militant,

For the benefit of all the Christians, would you care to provide us with an exposition of Luke 16:19-31 to increase our understanding?

These are the Words of my Lord Jesus Christ. I beseech thee, my dear brother to bless us with the infallible interpretation of this parable.

God Bless you,
cg99
Sorry…I won’t play your game. You’re the only one here who says you can offer an infallible interpretation of any passage of scripture.

You have all the answers, right?

Besides that passage has nothing whatever to do with the topic of this thread.

Why don’t you try posting on topic, or would you rather just try to use this thread and this forum as a platform for your propaganda?

If you want to talk about Luke 16:19-3, I suggest that you post a thread on it over in the Sacred Scripture forum.

That will stop you from hijacking this thread.

Gee just realized that this is SS… now if all this off topic stuff was on it’s own thread…:rolleyes:
 
BennieP,

This isn’t an us vs. them proposition. Furthermore you are promoting a form of religious bigotry that perpetuates stereotypes, by dropping a blanket accusation upon people who accepted you as a brother in Christ.

God has promised that his Word will stand. For you to even suggest that there are places where His Word is preached, but it is not effacacious is to make God himself a liar.

Isaiah 55:11 “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”

Furthermore, you come perilously close to denying the work of the Holy Spirit, and that blasphemy leads to eternal spiritual death (Mark 3:28).

But Bennie if you knew your bible better, you would know these things.

God is sovereign in all things and can use the most vile of heretics for the purpose of His glory. Romans 8:28
“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him who have been called according to his purpose.”

So get over yourself and see who is really in charge. Seek out those who proclaim the Gospel. That is the truth. Jesus has overcome sin and death and reconciled us to God the Father our creator, and we who believe have overcome with him.

Once again: Back to the topic---->Why don’t you know these things?
In the world of the Biblical Theology there are the rooms for the multiple doctrines.
There is assurance of Salvation, the Salvation which can not be lost.
There is assurance of Salvation, the Salvation which can be lost.
There are the diet laws.
There is the Sabbath.
There is the Baptism with Holly Spirit by the signs of the tongues speaking.
There is necessity of Visions, prophesies and hearing of God’s voices.
There is not permit for the blood transfusion .
There is Gods name and necessity to know that name.
There is necessity of Baptism in the adult age.
There is even the Baptism for the dead ( if to consider even the half of the Scripture verse.)

You know what I mean ?

Of course the Bible is not obscure or over mysterious.
Of course the Bible is accessible.
But if the Bible is the part of the Catholic Church tradition.
If the Bible is one of the Documents of the Catholic Church , then we put our trust to the Catholic Church authority.
Because , in the world of the Biblical Theology there are the rooms for the hundred times much more multiple doctrines and Interpretations, than I mentioned .
 
Thank you RepentorPerish, I think NPS missed my point.

There was a time, that the Bible was not commonly available. Today it is, and we are blessed and fortunate to live in such a time and place that people can follow their conscience without fear of persecution by the religious authorities.

Christians today have no excuse for failing to know God’s Word.

Here is what wiki has on Tyndale:
William Tyndale (sometimes spelled Tindale,Tindall or Tyndall) (ca. 1494–October 6, 1536) was a 16th century Protestant reformer and scholar who translated the Bible into the Early Modern English of his day. Although numerous partial and complete English translations had been made from the 7th century onward, Tyndale’s was the first to take advantage of the new medium of print, which allowed for its wide distribution. In 1535 Tyndale was tried for heresy and treason and then strangled and burnt at the stake.

Make no mistake, Tyndale’s only crime was proclaiming the gospel.
that is not true - his crime was HERESY and TREASON…neither of which are involved with proclaiming the Holy Scripture.
The very common misconception that Catholics do not know the Bible is held by most uneducated, or poorly educated, people. The reality is that any Catholic who attends the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is familiar with Scripture. What we do not do is memorize a few choice verses to throw at people.
We also do not interpret the Bible in the same way - we read it in the literal sense, not as literalists.

Your information about the heretic Tyndale is a good example of anti-Catholic bias clouding one’s ideas. We revere the Bible…afterall, it is the Holy Mother Church who gave the world the Bible.
 
Then I am the one being stupid: I reasoned fallaciously by hastily concluding, that you are referencing “sola scriptura” as valid, and perhaps even exclusive to the understanding of scripture.

I did read the same as you, that scripture in its entirety must be referenced for a correct interpretation; however, I read as well, that traditions of the church, and the philosophical, historical, and theological topics covered by scripture are vast, too vast for their reference to exclude other means of interpretation: be they scriptural, or secular.

I agree, that any interpretation of scripture, must not contradict any other portion of scripture, but this I failed to see as interpretation of scripture as a rule, to be done by scripture: many other sources excluded. It would seem the rule cited in the article would be inclusive not only of scripture interpreted by scripture, but also any source apart from scripture must be consistent across whatever interpretations of scripture exist.

I think that Martin Luther was highly intelligent, perhaps too intelligent for his times, and peers, that he intended “sola scriptura” to be just what is stated in this article, that reading and interpreting scripture in accord with what is present within scripture is requisite to understanding God’s word.

I like this rule, that you cite, and is given in the article provided with previous posts. My experience has shown me, that understanding scripture must be done in its entirety, with all other scriptures; something I have yet to accomplish. Something to do before I die.
Kristopher,

Its a discipline, no doubt a good one, but a real joy to know and understand the Word of God. God Speed my friend.

v/r
cg99
 
that is not true - his crime was HERESY and TREASON…neither of which are involved with proclaiming the Holy Scripture.
The very common misconception that Catholics do not know the Bible is held by most uneducated, or poorly educated, people. The reality is that any Catholic who attends the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is familiar with Scripture. What we do not do is memorize a few choice verses to throw at people.
We also do not interpret the Bible in the same way - we read it in the literal sense, not as literalists.

Your information about the heretic Tyndale is a good example of anti-Catholic bias clouding one’s ideas. We revere the Bible…afterall, it is the Holy Mother Church who gave the world the Bible.
LSK,
Can you produce proof he denied the essential elements of the Christian faith in his time (prior to Trent). Are you so familiar with the details of his life that you can comfortable condemn this man, made in the image of God, to the horrible death he suffered.

Remember: Exodus 20:16
Thou shalt bere no false witnesse agest thy neghboure
 
You are arguing, that Catholics have a lack of knowledge of the Bible as a consequence of failure to interpret scripture, in accord with scripture, that this rule of consistency, of unity across scriptures has been violated to such an extent, that a lack of knowledge about the Bible has become the result?

I listen to K-LOVE, KLVS out of Sacramento. There was a period of time, that even those among Protestants: ministers at a number of local churches in the area where I live, in addition to broadcasts by this nationwide Christian Radio network cited, that most people lacked knowledge of their Bible. I neither state, nor imply that you say, all errors cited in the article by Karl Keating are attributed to a lack of adherence to “Sola Scriptura”. I am saying, this is impossible to do. The problem of ignorance, with respect to scripture is inclusive both of Catholics, and of Protestants.

The other religious, or irreligious groups that you cite are unable to be qualified to substantiate any claim, that rejection of Sola Scriptura alone is sufficient to warrant clear interpretation of scripture–clear interpretation of scripture is the work of the Catholic Church; it is to the Catholic Church that interpretation of scripture has been entrusted, in accord with the Holy Spirit; the Descent, which founded the Church at Pentecost.

You are fallacious to reason, that revelation ended with St. John. Revelation ended with Jesus’ ministry begun at the Wedding at Cana; though, revelation of Jesus’ life, scripture is ceaseless to the extent, that there is much to learn. You know; I suspect, that Scripture does claim–I believe in the Gospel of John: all things pertaining to Christ have remained unwritten, with the explanation, that there is too vast a body of knowledge pertaining to his life, to be written; though it may have been a feat more easily accomplished with a computer keyboard, and Dovorak keyboard as well.

You look to us, to provide you with a scriptural basis to support, that interpretation of scripture must be done not only in accord with scripture, but also with tradition–St. Paul wrote in one or more places, that traditions must be maintained. I will locate the book(s), chapter(s), and verse(s) sometime this week, or the next.

It should, perhaps, be sufficient to say, scripture alone is only “sufficient”, neither exceptional, nor exclusive for reproof, for correction, for teaching. Nowhere in scripture, to my knowledge informed both by Protestant ministers, and Catholic sources is scripture elevated to the same level as the Trinity–the Trinity alone must be the source of all interpretation. Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ’s life; though Christ’s life certainly is well enough established in testimonies both of records belonging to the Roman Empire of Jesus’ day, that concern prosecution against him, hence the Crucifixion, in addition to census data, that would be inclusive of all his living family members, etc.

There is a remarkable comparison between scripture interpreted by scripture, and Sola Scriptura; though, Martin Luther added a word, physically, to the Bible in a particular chapter, and verse, that prior to his schism–did not exist, but this insertion of a word “alone” violated, which number of scriptures with respect to altering scripture? Whatever his intent either known to few, or unknown to all; this would invalidate his claim of “Sola Scriptura”–an accepted doctrine unfounded in scripture, or do you cite that book, chapter, and verse, which he inserted a word “alone” to substantiate your claim, if it is your claim, of “Sola Scriptura”?

I am short on time, and apologuise for awkward, verbose, sentences. Ask for clarification, should you need it, thank you!
Kristopher,
There is a lot here to address that could bog down this thread, but you seem truly interested in a rational dialogue regarding our respective understandings. In order to avoid being accused of taking the thread off topic, I would be honored if you would drop me an email.
YBiC,
cg99
 
LSK,
Can you produce proof he denied the essential elements of the Christian faith in his time (prior to Trent). Are you so familiar with the details of his life that you can comfortable condemn this man, made in the image of God, to the horrible death he suffered.

Remember: Exodus 20:16
Thou shalt bere no false witnesse agest thy neghboure
Bearing false witness was one Tyndale’s specialties…

catholicapologetics.net/apolo_52.htm

"(1) St. Thomas More commented that searching for errors in the Tyndale Bible was similar to searching for water in the sea. Tyndale translated the term baptism into “washing;” Scripture into “writing;” Holy Ghost into “Holy Wind,” Bishop into “Overseer,” Priest into “Elder,” Deacon into “Minister;” heresy into “choice;” martyr into “witness;” evangelist into “bearer of good news;” etc., etc. Many of his footnotes were vicious. For instance, Tyndale referred to the occupant of the Chair of Peter, as “that great idol, the whore of Babylon, the anti-Christ of Rome.”

Even King Henry VIII in 1531 condemned the Tyndale Bible as a corruption of Scripture. In the words of King Henry’s advisors: “the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people, and not be suffered to go abroad among his subjects.” (2) Protestant Bishop Tunstall of London declared that there were upwards of 2,000 errors in Tyndale’s Bible."

(1)The Jerome Biblical Commentary © 1968 Vol. II, pp. 586-588

(2) Where We Got The Bible © 1977 p. 128-130.
 
Bearing false witness was one Tyndale’s specialties…

catholicapologetics.net/apolo_52.htm
"(1) St. Thomas More commented that searching for errors in the Tyndale Bible was similar to searching for water in the sea. Tyndale translated the term baptism into “washing;” Scripture into “writing;” Holy Ghost into “Holy Wind,” Bishop into “Overseer,” Priest into “Elder,” Deacon into “Minister;” heresy into “choice;” martyr into “witness;” evangelist into “bearer of good news;” etc., etc. Many of his footnotes were vicious. For instance, Tyndale referred to the occupant of the Chair of Peter, as “that great idol, the whore of Babylon, the anti-Christ of Rome.”

Even King Henry VIII in 1531 condemned the Tyndale Bible as a corruption of Scripture. In the words of King Henry’s advisors: “the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people, and not be suffered to go abroad among his subjects.” (2) Protestant Bishop Tunstall of London declared that there were upwards of 2,000 errors in Tyndale’s Bible."

(1)The Jerome Biblical Commentary © 1968 Vol. II, pp. 586-588

(2) Where We Got The Bible © 1977 p. 128-130.[SIGN]Ouch![/SIGN]Looks like the “witnesses” are in and they nail Tyndale.

BTW what does this have to do with Catholics and their knowledge of the Bible?
 
Bearing false witness was one Tyndale’s specialties…

catholicapologetics.net/apolo_52.htm

"(1) St. Thomas More commented that searching for errors in the Tyndale Bible was similar to searching for water in the sea. Tyndale translated the term baptism into “washing;” Scripture into “writing;” Holy Ghost into “Holy Wind,” Bishop into “Overseer,” Priest into “Elder,” Deacon into “Minister;” heresy into “choice;” martyr into “witness;” evangelist into “bearer of good news;” etc., etc. Many of his footnotes were vicious. For instance, Tyndale referred to the occupant of the Chair of Peter, as “that great idol, the whore of Babylon, the anti-Christ of Rome.”

Even King Henry VIII in 1531 condemned the Tyndale Bible as a corruption of Scripture. In the words of King Henry’s advisors: “the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people, and not be suffered to go abroad among his subjects.” (2) Protestant Bishop Tunstall of London declared that there were upwards of 2,000 errors in Tyndale’s Bible."

(1)The Jerome Biblical Commentary © 1968 Vol. II, pp. 586-588

(2) Where We Got The Bible © 1977 p. 128-130.
These second hand reports are hearsay, not proof. Regarding the Pope, do you know about the Popes who occupied the chair of Saint Peter in the years before Tyndale wrote those words. Have you ever heard of Leo X or Clement VII. They weren’t particularly great exemplars of Christian love. Translating can be problematic when you are working alone, running from the authorites who are trying to kill you.

Here’s the link, have at it. find proof of heresy
wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/tyndale/
 
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