Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

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People shouldn’t have to defend their natural family planning decisions to other random Catholics on an internet forum. There are clear teachings with regard to the use of contraception so it is reasonable to suggest that Catholics should examine their conscience with that clear Church teaching in mind. However, to keep insisting that people doing NFP should examine their conscience not according to Church teaching but with regard to someones personal interpretation of ‘just reasons’ is not reasonable. When the Church clearly acknowledges and approves a range of factors that go into such a decision and specifically says these factors are ‘not rare’… it is unacceptable to call into question their decision. If you say that you weren’t specifically talking about Xantippes post that you quoted, but were talking about yourself as well… why then are you so incenses that we called you to account also? You can’t have it both ways. If you want to quote a persons post about themselves to make a general point… you must accept that others can quote a post about your own situation to make a general point also.
LongingSoul,

I have told you repeatedly that what you are accusing me of doing I have not done–but you refuse to listen to me or accept what I was saying–instead you want to tell me I was saying–and then chastise me for that. I’m not incensed because someone is calling me to account–I’m exasperated that you keep misrepresenting what I said–and fail to accept my attempts to clarify or help you understand what I was saying. Further I wasn’t calling anyone to account–I’ve told you that more than once–yet here you are charging me with it once again. I’ve never said that anyone should examine their conscience by any standard other than Church teaching–to be quite truthful I don’t think I suggested any standard because it never crossed my mind that anyone would examine their conscience using any other standard. Others have been able to read what I wrote–and understand it how it how it was intended. I understand that you didn’t and I have attempted to clarify for you what was intended but you continue to disregard those and continue your attacks. If anyone is incensed it is not me. Could you please stop accusing me of doing something I did not do–I’ve given you enough clarification regarding what was meant and I know others read it as it was intended–so I’m not sure why you keep insisting that I meant something that I didn’t. Do you think I am a liar or that I really don’t know what I meant? What are you hoping to accomplish by continuing to accuse me of doing something that I didn’t?

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
I’m well aware of those studies and they do not pertain to my situation in the least.

I’ve said my piece.

It’s a medical issue and I trust my OB.

No one will change my mind on it at all. No, I’m not going through anyone else but my OB.

So do me a favor everyone. Lay off me. I’ve struggled enough. I’m at peace with it and I’m done here.
:clapping:
 
I’m not saying that you are less-than (in fact, I was pointing out that I myself am a much more refreshed and competent parent when I don’t have to parent all the time), but it is genuinely different.

Your wife is the stay-at-home mother of BIG kids. That’s different than being the stay-at-home mother of little itty bitty kids.

I’m not saying that any of these things are worse than the other, but they aren’t the same thing.
Well she started staying home when our youngest was born–so not really so big–he’s eight now but she did stay home with him through his infancy. At the same time she also baby sat for the small children of one of my sons classmates --I think he was two when she started (this is a kid who’s brother is autistic and who had some verbal issues of his own) and then for his new born brother once he born. So she was home with infants and toddlers all day for a few years at least. Kids do grow up. They weren’t big the whole eight years.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
In fact, one way of doing that is simply denying that other people struggle with parenting.

Because if they’re not actually struggling, we don’t need to help them, right?
Have we actually had posts denying that people struggle with parenting–posts that say parenting isn’t hard or challenging or full of struggles? I’ve missed those.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
Well she started staying home when our youngest was born–so not really so big–he’s eight now but she did stay home with him through his infancy. At the same time she also baby sat for the small children of one of my sons classmates --I think he was two when she started (this is a kid who’s brother is autistic and who had some verbal issues of his own) and then for his new born brother once he born. So she was home with infants and toddlers all day for a few years at least. Kids do grow up. They weren’t big the whole eight years.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
Thanks–I didn’t understand the chronology before.

By the way, I understood your posts exactly as LongingSoul did, so it’s not an idiosyncratic misreading on her part.
 
Thank you for your response.

It’s kind of hard to hear or rather read tone in the written word.
Yes–that is the one bad thing about the forums. We should all try to give the posters the benefit of the doubt with regards to tone, which I try to do–but I admit that at times I fail miserably at that.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
Yes.

I always remember the Torodes in this context. That was a young Protestant couple who married in 2000, had a honeymoon baby, wrote a pro-NFP anti-contraception book that came out in 2002, recanted their views in 2006, and divorced in 2009, having had four little ones within 9 years of marriage.

““I was 19 when we got married,” Ms. Patchin said by telephone from Nashville, where she and her former husband live and share custody of their four children. “And I was 20 when we had Gideon.”

“The book she and Mr. Torode wrote two years into their marriage is quite short and quite sweet, an earnest work whose hopefulness one badly wants to share.”

“Among other challenges, Ms. Patchin, now 30, had unplanned pregnancies. “I got pregnant nursing twice,” she told me. “So my first two kids are 15 months apart, then there is a three-year break, then the younger two are a year and a half apart. That was intense. Beyond hormonally intense, it was relationally intense. It was nothing I would ever want anyone else to have to experience.””

nytimes.com/2011/07/09/us/09beliefs.html?_r=2

Now, there’s a couple that went outside their “comfort zone.”
And this proves NFP is not a viable way to plan families for many people contrary to what others keep saying. NFP did not work for that lady. She also got pregnant while nursing. So, those of us that have this experience should run to ABC? Obviously NFP doesn’t have the desired effects for many of us. I’ve asked before what those of us that can’t avoid pregnancy or even really space babies should do. Is this the answer? Divorce and change our views on ABC? How is this better than learning to accept God may very well have another desire for us and trusting that maybe our children are meant to be here?

I married at 18. Had my first child before my 19th birthday. Been married almost 18 years now and have had 10 children, 2 were stillborn. We are happily married. This is how God intended for life to work out for us. Running to ABC or divorcing or both can’t possibly be more in line with Catholic teaching.
 
Have we actually had posts denying that people struggle with parenting–posts that say parenting isn’t hard or challenging or full of struggles? I’ve missed those.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
Well, that’s a very natural conclusion to come to.

I feel like the conversation sounds like this.

A: You should have more children!

B: I’m struggling a lot with the children I have.

A: You should have more children!

It would be not unnatural for B to feel like A can’t really hear B, or doesn’t understand what B is saying, because A says the same thing no matter what B says about B’s situation. It would also be not unnatural for B to feel like A is indifferent to B’s well-being.

Maybe B would be wrong in thinking these things, but you can see where B gets the idea.

I often get the impression in these discussions that advocates for large-families-for-everybody do not understand that many parents of two (or even one) are not doing well.
 
Following on from Xantippe’s last post, I think many people’s expectations (at least in the West) of quality of life have changed both in terms of what constitutes ‘quality’ and how much of it they are entitled to expect.

What I mean is that for many people, the faith that they were baptised into (whatever denomination) is seen more as a ‘tradition’ than something that actually provides any moral compass. One consequence of this is that ‘quality of life’ is very detached from any sort of ‘quality of spiritual life’ and measured in material wealth and signs of ‘doing well’ like more holidays to more expensive locations, better cars etc.

People’s expectations and sense of entitlement also seem to have changed, at least among my peer group (I’m 44) I have several friends who maintain they can’t afford to have any more children when actually, compared to many families, they are very well off indeed. What they mean is that more children would lead to them losing the lifestyle that they feel they are entitled to because of the years of hard work they have put in from high school upwards.

I wonder sometimes if women who are my age were just pushed too hard at school into putting career before all else until the trappings of a successful career were seen the only ‘real’ badge of self-worth and achievement? Very few of my friends married before the age of 35 and fewer still before 30. Of those who did, I know just 1 who chose to be a SAHM and ironically, she and her husband genuinely do struggle to make ends meet, but they have the happiest, most well-adjusted children you could wish to meet. They don’t live in a ‘good’ area, or have lots of gadgets and fancy holidays. In fact, their lifestyle would be regared by many of my other friends as ‘unacceptable’ for them. For me, she’s the friend whose wisdom and faith I admire the most!

Against this sort of background, I can see why ABC becomes a habit. I know a lot of women my age who were very pious at school, but by the time we all reached university, having a sexual relationship with one’s boyfriend was considered ‘the norm’ and, as Xantippe has already pointed out, some people do wrong with genuinely good intentions. In the cases of many of my friends, they knew on some level that sex outside marriage was wrong, but they also desperately wanted to avoid creating a new life when they didn’t feel emotionally of financially ready to care for him / her and did not want to disappoint their parents. I’m in no way condoning their actions but I do understand them.

This mentality allowes women to go on contracepting and having relationships without choosing ‘the one’ until they feel they have the financial means to secure a lifestyle which reflects their achievements. The tragic flip-side is that contraception takes away a woman’s right to say ‘no’ on anything but moral grounds and as the concept of ‘morality’ is such a moveable feast in the secular world, it’s almost a given that sex is expected in a stable, adult relationship and therefore, contraception is presented as the ‘rational and responsible’ choice.

My friends who have married and had children in the their late 30s and early 40s (yes, it can and does happen, even without IVF) have a very different outlook on life than they did in their 20s and early 30s. They suddenly seem to realise who lucky they are to have their children and they become obsessive about providing ‘the best’ and giving them the sort of picture book existence that they ‘sort of’ remember from their own childhood and all the Enid Blyton books they read 🙂

If having more than 2 children means having to forgo staying at home, or using a day nursery that is extremely well run, they genuinely see that as a reason for restricting their family size. One lady I know who is intelligent, caring, still mindful of her Catholic upbringing and very committed to her marriage insisted she would abort her second baby if he / she was diagnosed with any chromosomal abnormalities because she wanted ‘only the best’ for her already born toddler.

Of course, there are the lazy, feckless individuals who use contraception as an excuse to sleep around and take no responsibility for their actions, but I believe many people who use it do so because their understanding of their faith is half-baked and eroded by secular values, so that they genuinely believe that they are doing something that is morally justifiable and do so with genuinely good intentions.

👍 Okay, that’s my expanded take on the ‘why’. I have no idea what we do to address it!

I still have every sympathy for married couples for whom, for whatever reason, are unable to use NFP and still have that deep desire to be true to their faith. This is definitely a group that gets swept under the carpet by the Church.
They aren’t being “swept under the carpet” by the Church! The Church is protecting God’s laws and trying to help us stay faithful to those laws and eventually be in Heaven with Our Lord for ALL eternity. Don’t blame the Church for what we are allowing our society to push on us. We have to have the faith and the courage to stand strong with the Church in these trying times. Our Lord didn’t give us the Catholic Church with the promise that the Holy Spirit would protect it from error till the end of time, for NOTHING. Instead of fighting against the Church we should be working with Her. Our society has made materialism, pleasure and sex it’s god. The Church will never follow that path. God Bless, Memaw
 
Thanks–I didn’t understand the chronology before.

By the way, I understood your posts exactly as LongingSoul did, so it’s not an idiosyncratic misreading on her part.
I know you did–and I do feel bad about that–hopefully you’ve been able to understand my clarifications. I do know there are others who understood them as I intended – I’m sorry for the confusion and any hurt you may have taken from them–that was not my intention. It was not my intention to question what you do–you just used a phase that I found interesting and raised a question in my mind regarding something I think about a bit. I didn’t expect to start a fire storm with it or to get sucked into its vortex. I will try to be more careful in the future in pointing that out.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
And this proves NFP is not a viable way to plan families for many people contrary to what others keep saying. NFP did not work for that lady. She also got pregnant while nursing. So, those of us that have this experience should run to ABC? Obviously NFP doesn’t have the desired effects for many of us. I’ve asked before what those of us that can’t avoid pregnancy or even really space babies should do. Is this the answer? Divorce and change our views on ABC? How is this better than learning to accept God may very well have another desire for us and trusting that maybe our children are meant to be here?

I married at 18. Had my first child before my 19th birthday. Been married almost 18 years now and have had 10 children, 2 were stillborn. We are happily married. This is how God intended for life to work out for us. Running to ABC or divorcing or both can’t possibly be more in line with Catholic teaching.
In the general population, early marriage is a major risk factor for divorce.

There’s a chart here:

family-studies.org/an-optimal-age-to-marry-age-at-marriage-and-divorce-risk-in-europe-and-the-us/

In the US, the risk of divorce falls and falls with increased age at marriage, bottoming out at 28 and then slightly rising.
 
I know you did–and I do feel bad about that–hopefully you’ve been able to understand my clarifications. I do know there are others who understood them as I intended – I’m sorry for the confusion and any hurt you may have taken from them–that was not my intention. It was not my intention to question what you do–you just used a phase that I found interesting and raised a question in my mind regarding something I think about a bit. I didn’t expect to start a fire storm with it or to get sucked into its vortex. I will try to be more careful in the future in pointing that out.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
No problem.
 
In the general population, early marriage is a major risk factor for divorce.

There’s a chart here:

family-studies.org/an-optimal-age-to-marry-age-at-marriage-and-divorce-risk-in-europe-and-the-us/

In the US, the risk of divorce falls and falls with increased age at marriage, bottoming out at 28 and then slightly rising.
That’s a complete different subject. This isn’t about age at marriage. This is about ABC and why people opt to use it. If the couple isn’t able to avoid pregnancy with NFP what are they supposed to do? Recant like that couple and start using the pill or whatever, and when life is still hard, end their marriage in divorce?
 
Memaw #811
They aren’t being “swept under the carpet” by the Church! The Church is protecting God’s laws and trying to help us stay faithful to those laws and eventually be in Heaven with Our Lord for ALL eternity. Don’t blame the Church for what we are allowing our society to push on us. We have to have the faith and the courage to stand strong with the Church in these trying times. Our Lord didn’t give us the Catholic Church with the promise that the Holy Spirit would protect it from error till the end of time, for NOTHING. Instead of fighting against the Church we should be working with Her. Our society has made materialism, pleasure and sex it’s god. The Church will never follow that path. God Bless, Memaw
Excellent, Memaw.
God bless 🙂
 
That’s a complete different subject. This isn’t about age at marriage. This is about ABC and why people opt to use it. If the couple isn’t able to avoid pregnancy with NFP what are they supposed to do? Recant like that couple and start using the pill or whatever, and when life is still hard, end their marriage in divorce?
No, it’s not a completely different subject at all.

The thread topic is “Why do most people ignore the Church’s teaching on contraception?”

As I said many, many pages ago–because it’s hard. And being very young parents of closely spaced children raises the difficulty level substantially.
 
No, it’s not a completely different subject at all.

The thread topic is “Why do most people ignore the Church’s teaching on contraception?”

As I said many, many pages ago–because it’s hard. And being very young parents of closely spaced children raises the difficulty level substantially.
And what you posted was an article about a couple that couldn’t make NFP work for them. Even if they had married much later, the issue would have been the same. Age at marriage has nothing to do with why couples use ABC instead of following Church teaching on contraception. If they are attempting to avoid pregnancy and NFP isn’t working they are going to either change their stance and abandon NFP for ABC or they are going to change their stance and accept the babies God sends them willingly.
 
LongingSoul,

I have told you repeatedly that what you are accusing me of doing I have not done–but you refuse to listen to me or accept what I was saying–instead you want to tell me I was saying–and then chastise me for that. I’m not incensed because someone is calling me to account–I’m exasperated that you keep misrepresenting what I said–and fail to accept my attempts to clarify or help you understand what I was saying. Further I wasn’t calling anyone to account–I’ve told you that more than once–yet here you are charging me with it once again. I’ve never said that anyone should examine their conscience by any standard other than Church teaching–to be quite truthful I don’t think I suggested any standard because it never crossed my mind that anyone would examine their conscience using any other standard. Others have been able to read what I wrote–and understand it how it how it was intended. I understand that you didn’t and I have attempted to clarify for you what was intended but you continue to disregard those and continue your attacks. If anyone is incensed it is not me. Could you please stop accusing me of doing something I did not do–I’ve given you enough clarification regarding what was meant and I know others read it as it was intended–so I’m not sure why you keep insisting that I meant something that I didn’t. Do you think I am a liar or that I really don’t know what I meant? What are you hoping to accomplish by continuing to accuse me of doing something that I didn’t?

The peace of Christ,
Mark
I was taken aback by your initial post challenging validity of a comfort zone of parenting but wasn’t affronted until this post…

You may, but I find the whole my kids are sooooooooo much work just as unrelatable. I didn’t say raising them wasn’t at times challenging or hard just that I don’t view it as “work”–as a job, as a task to accomplish. I view raising my kids as much more than that. If I viewed raising them as “work”, as a job I’d be exhausted and mentally worn out waiting for the day they turn 18 so I could retire, can change the locks, and start living my life. I’m guessing we don’t use the word “work” the same.

Perhaps your cat sat on the keyboard hence the dramatic sooooooooo but without you telling us why you did that, it comes across as sneering… sarcasm… self righteousness. Just like the many, many sneerers and self righteous judgers of family planning as a valid Catholic approach.

Here is an interesting article by Rev. Brian W. Harrison, O.S., M.A., S.T.D. giving a good description of true Church teaching about family planning…

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6452
 
And what you posted was an article about a couple that couldn’t make NFP work for them. Even if they had married much later, the issue would have been the same. Age at marriage has nothing to do with why couples use ABC instead of following Church teaching on contraception. If they are attempting to avoid pregnancy and NFP isn’t working they are going to either change their stance and abandon NFP for ABC or they are going to change their stance and accept the babies God sends them willingly.
I don’t know the details of the Torodes’ NFP situation (thank goodness!) but it strikes me that it’s very likely that it was a situation where if they’d gotten a better start, they would have done much better. It’s the pregnant-breastfeeding-pregnant-breastfeeding cycle that is kind of a killer, as one just doesn’t get an opportunity to work with “good” cycles.

For an average couple, age at marriage does make a difference for a lot of things–they’re dealing with fewer years of fertility, they’ve had more of a chance to finish their education, get jobs, pay off debt, they have a better statistical chance of avoiding divorce, etc. There are also neurological issues in play with age and brain development–which is why rental companies prefer drivers over 25–drivers over 25 get into fewer accidents.

dollar.com/Car_Rental_Information/Main/Rent_a_Car_Under_25.aspx
 
I was taken aback by your initial post challenging validity of a comfort zone of parenting but wasn’t affronted until this post…

You may, but I find the whole my kids are sooooooooo much work just as unrelatable. I didn’t say raising them wasn’t at times challenging or hard just that I don’t view it as “work”–as a job, as a task to accomplish. I view raising my kids as much more than that. If I viewed raising them as “work”, as a job I’d be exhausted and mentally worn out waiting for the day they turn 18 so I could retire, can change the locks, and start living my life. I’m guessing we don’t use the word “work” the same.

Perhaps your cat sat on the keyboard hence the dramatic sooooooooo but without you telling us why you did that, it comes across as sneering… sarcasm… self righteousness. Just like the many, many sneerers and self righteous judgers of family planning as a valid Catholic approach.

Here is an interesting article by Rev. Brian W. Harrison, O.S., M.A., S.T.D. giving a good description of true Church teaching about family planning…

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6452
It sort of got lost upthread, but I mentioned upthread that anything that must be done and that isn’t optional is work.

How I feel about it or whether I’m getting paid for it is irrelevant–for me, what makes it work is that I have to do it even if I don’t want to.
 
I don’t know the details of the Torodes’ NFP situation (thank goodness!) but it strikes me that it’s very likely that it was a situation where if they’d gotten a better start, they would have done much better. It’s the pregnant-breastfeeding-pregnant-breastfeeding cycle that is kind of a killer, as one just doesn’t get an opportunity to work with “good” cycles.

For an average couple, age at marriage does make a difference for a lot of things–they’re dealing with fewer years of fertility, they’ve had more of a chance to finish their education, get jobs, pay off debt, they have a better statistical chance of avoiding divorce, etc. There are also neurological issues in play with age and brain development–which is why rental companies prefer drivers over 25–drivers over 25 get into fewer accidents.

dollar.com/Car_Rental_Information/Main/Rent_a_Car_Under_25.aspx
Yet most of the couples that are struggling the most with NFP on this board have listed their ages as much older than the couple in your article. Age isn’t the determining factor here at all. If NFP isn’t working, you will be stuck in that cycle regardless. If a couple isn’t ready for kids they should delay marriage because it is very possible to be the lady that is in that cycle. No one knows how they will fair with NFP until they test it out personally.
 
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