Why do most people ignore the Church's teaching on contraception?

[gardenswithkids]

… Just like the many, many sneerers and self righteous judgers of family planning as a valid Catholic approach.

Here is an interesting article by Rev. Brian W. Harrison, O.S., M.A., S.T.D. giving a good description of true Church teaching about family planning…

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6452
​

Thank you for sharing a link to that article. I think you may misunderstand the position of some people posting on this thread. The article mainly addresses concerns that I haven’t seen here on this thread. Maybe I missed it, but I never noticed anyone here calling NFP a heresy. Did you think that some of your fellow Catholics here were saying that NFP is a heresy? I certainly wasn’t! I respect Catholics who use NFP in line with Church teachings.

My views are closer to something that the author Rev. Harrison starts of his article by stating is the criticism that he thinks is “reasonable and just”. It looks to me like those “reasonable and just” criticism are some very things that people here have posted, which you and Xantippe seem to have taken issue with. I quoted from your article and highlighted them below.

I should begin by acknowledging that, in its milder forms — when it is directed more against some modern pastoral policies and practices rather than at the Church’s authentic doctrine about NFP — the rigorist criticism seems reasonable and just. From what I have seen and read in my years as a priest, I agree with such critics that there is sometimes a one-sidedness or lack of balance among those promoting NFP. Married or engaged couples often are taught the legitimacy and the techniques of NFP with little or no mention of that other part of the Church’s teaching that insists that couples need “just reasons” (Humanae Vitae 16; Catechism of the Catholic Church 2368) for using NFP if they wish to be free from blame before God. (Indeed, I think we now need from the magisterium some less vague and more specific guidelines as to what actually constitutes a “just reason.”)

Often such couples hear nothing of **the fact that “Sacred Scripture and the Church’s traditional practice see in large families a sign of God’s blessing and the parents’ generosity” (CCC 2373). **Still less frequently are they informed that, according to the magisterium, frivolous or materialistic considerations are in themselves inadequate criteria for deciding when NFP can be justified (cf. Gaudium et Spes 50).

 

[Xantippe]

Yet most of the couples that are struggling the most with NFP on this board have listed their ages as much older than the couple in your article. Age isn’t the determining factor here at all. If NFP isn’t working, you will be stuck in that cycle regardless. If a couple isn’t ready for kids they should delay marriage because it is very possible to be the lady that is in that cycle. No one knows how they will fair with NFP until they test it out personally.

Wait–aren’t you agreeing with me then?

Waiting for marriage will make the couple older.

 

[bitterhope]

Wait–aren’t you agreeing with me then?

Waiting for marriage will make the couple older.

Age is not the determining factor. I married very young. I haven’t turned to ABC. Most of the couples posting that they are turning to something other than NFP married much older than I did and have far fewer kids. They waited to marry and still they are not coping. It has nothing to do with age. It has everything to do with NFP not doing what they are wanting it to do. They are not being supported by the NFP proponents and instead are told that they aren’t doing things correctly. If somebody would let people know from the beginning that NFP still leaves God in charge and that is the beauty of it instead of continuously stating the 98% effective rate or whatever each method claims, people might go into things with the knowledge that they may very well end up in that cycle. It has far less to do with age than it does with expectations.

 

[Memaw]

I’m sorry, I just can’t help myself…low hanging fruit:

People can already abstain, and yet…

Homosexual prostitution is an act of love? :ehh:

I don’t think that’s what Abu meant! God Bless, Memaw

 

[kptrs]

Okay, I am officially done with this thread. Apparently no one can express personal experiences without getting misunderstood and jumped on. If they are misunderstood and then try to apologize and explain themselves, they are ignored and just keep getting chastised. I don’t get it. I’m afraid to say anything at all because I don’t know whom I might offend. :imsorry:

I’m just going to for a while and see where this goes. But posting is apparently inherently dangerous. :nunchuk:

 

[Xantippe]

Age is not the determining factor. I married very young. I haven’t turned to ABC. Most of the couples posting that they are turning to something other than NFP married much older than I did and have far fewer kids. They waited to marry and still they are not coping. It has nothing to do with age. It has everything to do with NFP not doing what they are wanting it to do. They are not being supported by the NFP proponents and instead are told that they aren’t doing things correctly. If somebody would let people know from the beginning that NFP still leaves God in charge and that is the beauty of it instead of continuously stating the 98% effective rate or whatever each method claims, people might go into things with the knowledge that they may very well end up in that cycle. It has far less to do with age than it does with expectations.

I don’t think that quite covers the difficulties.

It’s equally possible to start by being enthusiastic about a larger family (I did!) and then gradually discover that it’s not going to work with your particular kids, self, spouse, or environment, or that being the kind of parent you want to be or that your particular kids need is impossible in that environment.

Big families are sold with just as much as zeal and lack of attention to the fineprint as NFP, and sometimes by exactly the same people.

As I’ve mentioned before on CAF, I went into married life expecting that we would have a homeschooling family of 4-6 (and maybe even more), I’d be a career homemaker, and it was going to be AWESOME. It would have astonished me as a young bride to see older me happily packing up our little children for preschool, to know that we never homeschooled, and also to see how long we lingered as a family of 2 (7 years), and how eager I am at this point to move on to doing some stuff outside the home. But, on the other hand, if naive-young-bride-me had known a little more about autism or all the pregnancy complications that lay ahead for us, she would have been scared to death.

I have a somewhat different but related topic to talk about but I’ll leave this here.

 

[PaulinVA]

If somebody would let people know from the beginning that NFP still leaves God in charge and that is the beauty of it instead of continuously stating the 98% effective rate or whatever each method claims, people might go into things with the knowledge that they may very well end up in that cycle. It has far less to do with age than it does with expectations.

But, what does “God in charge” mean in this context? God created the biology. He follows His rules. If God constantly intervened and didn’t follow his rules, then the NFP rules wouldn’t have been possible to develop.

The fact is, we are co creators with God. We have sex at the right time, and if everything goes “right”, there is conception and ensoulment. God doesn’t decide when you are going to have sex, or if there is conception.

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s another topic that I believe hasn’t been addressed.

Our youngest and third child (age 3) was eagerly awaited and doted over like you cannot believe by everybody in the family, including myself.

However, I have recently realized that despite all the wonderful things about her arrival (and there are too many to count), there’s also been a fairly radical deterioration in my well-being. Without even realizing it, I started pulling away from a lot of our previous social interactions, because it was just too hard to get ready for events and police her when she was a toddler. I stopped going to potlucks, I sent my husband to older kids’ games rather than going with the toddler, I wasn’t able to do school volunteering, I skipped a bunch of school events, we no longer were doing the monthly movies at home that we used to, etc., etc. Furthermore, while I often thought to myself, “We should get together with the O’Donnels!” it all seemed like too much trouble–plus the more complicated mechanics of having a larger family ate up a lot of mental energy that would previously have been spent on arranging social events. Also, a good friend moved away. Without my even noticing it, my social life largely dried up and blew away. I find myself right now much more isolated than ever before in my life and I fear that I’m slipping into depression (as I mentioned upthread, the stats are that over a quarter of SAHMs are depressed–it is virtually an occupational disease of SAHMs).

We just realized this and my husband is helping me to fix it (I’ve just signed up for two Meet Up groups in our area, and my husband has made us a standing dinner date with a family we know).

I have a very reasonable concern that if we were to have more children at this point, I would start slipping again into a spiral of social isolation and depression. It requires tremendous effort in our situation and a tremendous investment of time and energy to keep up some form of social life.

To return to a phrase from a previous part of this discussion, I have good reason to believe that going out of my “comfort zone” right now would mean going straight into depression.

 

[Convert_in_99]

This has got to be some kind of record for the most posts in a NFP vs contraception thread. Lol!

I don’t see why we can’t just call a truce. If we haven’t agreed after 800+ posts, suffice it to say we’re not going to agree.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Here’s another topic that I believe hasn’t been addressed.

Our youngest and third child (age 3) was eagerly awaited and doted over like you cannot believe by everybody in the family, including myself.

However, I have recently realized that despite all the wonderful things about her arrival (and there are too many to count), there’s also been a fairly radical deterioration in my well-being. Without even realizing it, I started pulling away from a lot of our previous social interactions, because it was just too hard to get ready for events and police her when she was a toddler. I stopped going to potlucks, I sent my husband to older kids’ games rather than going with the toddler, I wasn’t able to do school volunteering, I skipped a bunch of school events, we no longer were doing the monthly movies at home that we used to, etc., etc. Furthermore, while I often thought to myself, “We should get together with the O’Donnels!” it all seemed like too much trouble–plus the more complicated mechanics of having a larger family ate up a lot of mental energy that would previously have been spent on arranging social events. Also, a good friend moved away. Without my even noticing it, my social life largely dried up and blew away. I find myself right now much more isolated than ever before in my life and I fear that I’m slipping into depression (as I mentioned upthread, the stats are that over a quarter of SAHMs are depressed–it is virtually an occupational disease of SAHMs).

We just realized this and my husband is helping me to fix it (I’ve just signed up for two Meet Up groups in our area, and my husband has made us a standing dinner date with a family we know).

I have a very reasonable concern that if we were to have more children at this point, I would start slipping again into a spiral of social isolation and depression. It requires tremendous effort in our situation and a tremendous investment of time and energy to keep up some form of social life.

To return to a phrase from a previous part of this discussion, I have good reason to believe that going out of my “comfort zone” right now would mean going straight into depression.

Sorry you have been struggling with depression. :console:

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Okay, I am officially done with this thread. Apparently no one can express personal experiences without getting misunderstood and jumped on. If they are misunderstood and then try to apologize and explain themselves, they are ignored and just keep getting chastised. I don’t get it. I’m afraid to say anything at all because I don’t know whom I might offend. :imsorry:

I’m just going to for a while and see where this goes. But posting is apparently inherently dangerous. :nunchuk:

Yup, I’m out too. Bullies win again.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

@Xantippe I can relate to social isolation to an extent.

When I was a little girl, my grandparents lived within walking distance. My mom’s aunt also lived within walking distance. My Godmother was a longer walk away, but a 5 minute car ride.

My Grandparents probably popped in most mornings, Then my mom would run some errands. Then she would come back and grandparents would stay for coffee.

My Godmother would be over frequently as well, even for a ten minute visit,

It was a judgment free zone of sorts. Our apartment could be cluttered and my mom in the middle of housework. My grandmother never seemed judgmental, she’d help out where needed.

My life as a mom hasn’t really ever looked like that.

My first few days as a mom had my mother in law criticizing me that i wanted to use paper plates and cups for the visitors. The fact that I had a post partum hemorrhage and 20 stitches was irrelevant, darn it. Guests are just too important for paper plates, break out the matching china, not even the mismatched mugs.

By the time my third child was born, any help that I had for my first 2 was gone.

Shuttling between the NICU and picking kids up from school, and groceries and post partum uterine infection.

Me.

No grandmother within walking distance. I actually never left my preemie with anyone except for DH until maybe he was 3. My mom, and she misplaced him. She found him eventually.

And the funny thing, I kept with NFP, through blood tests and changing NFP methods and driving 45 minutes to an NFP doctor. And progesterone supplements.And uterine biopsies and sonograms.

Most people I know in real life would think I am crazy for not having had my tubes tide. I have been to family functions where guests casually discuss getting their tubes tied after c-sections being so convenient.

I’ve had OB’s tell me NFP doesn’t work, I’ve had a CATHOLIC OB, when asked about clarification with NFP, said she prayed the Church would change and told me to use condoms.

I’ve had the best relationship with my NFP only OB. He’d ask me about my kids, if my DH was on board with NFP. He was familiar with the 3 main methods, and suggested which would work best with me. Helped me through a miscarriage in the most compassionate way.

AWESOME doctor I hope God blesses him I actually felt sadness when he stopped practicing. I guess I’m in the minority of having had a positive experience with NFP practitioners, and with NFP in general.

 

[bitterhope]

I don’t think that quite covers the difficulties.

It’s equally possible to start by being enthusiastic about a larger family (I did!) and then gradually discover that it’s not going to work with your particular kids, self, spouse, or environment, or that being the kind of parent you want to be or that your particular kids need is impossible in that environment.

Big families are sold with just as much as zeal and lack of attention to the fineprint as NFP, and sometimes by exactly the same people.

As I’ve mentioned before on CAF, I went into married life expecting that we would have a homeschooling family of 4-6 (and maybe even more), I’d be a career homemaker, and it was going to be AWESOME. It would have astonished me as a young bride to see older me happily packing up our little children for preschool, to know that we never homeschooled, and also to see how long we lingered as a family of 2 (7 years), and how eager I am at this point to move on to doing some stuff outside the home. But, on the other hand, if naive-young-bride-me had known a little more about autism or all the pregnancy complications that lay ahead for us, she would have been scared to death.

I have a somewhat different but related topic to talk about but I’ll leave this here.

You have also stated NFP works for you. You’ve said even with pumping and never physically putting a baby to the breast to nurse you are cycle free. You’ve had years of successfully avoiding pregnancy, including a few years of marriage before your first was born avoiding pregnancy. If you had not had success with NFP, you would be faced with a major decision, either switch to ABC as a great deal of people do, or you would you need to find the way to accept that life was not going to go the way you planned. You could either wallow in self pity or you could find the way to enjoy the life you had. Switching to ABC is against church teaching. It is not acceptable in our faith. But what other option is there besides learning to adjust to a life that is difficult?

I have never seen big families sold as the cure all of all troubles. I have seen a lot of posters here that say they are. I have seen people reaffirm that large families are a sign of generosity and I have said that large families can be a beautiful way of life and not the horrible things society tells us we are. I have never advocated for everyone having just a few more kids than they would like. I have said that people should accept each new life as God’s gift when NFP failures happen. I have said that NFP works for some people and probably that is because God sees that they need it to work for them. It doesn’t work for some of us and I really think that probably that is because God is in control and He sees a need for a new life in our family.

I don’t get how every thread turns into a debate about family size. No one has stated that big families are better than small families. I even mentioned my sister has no children and her family is a beautiful example of Accepting God’s will. She is able to do things she may not have accomplished if she had been the mother of a large family. Her expectations at marriage were to have 6 kids. She’s ended up with 0. She had to accept that, just as I have had to accept my 2 planned turned into 10. I had to accept that my youngest two would be still born. And I do believe God had a plan there and I had a very tough lesson to learn from that. Life is brief and fleeting. Life is not guaranteed. Life hurts sometimes. We can’t always have what we want.

I do wonder why if a woman is not happy bring a SAHM she doesn’t get an outside job. My mother worked and the church has no teaching that a mom must be home 24/7. I worked for several years outside the home and off and on since then as the need arises. I prefer being home. I don’t like leaving my kids with other people. It is my preference. My mom worked nearly 40 years in a medical lab. We went to school and my dad worked nights when mom was home. It was not wrong of her to keep her job. Being a parent is hard. There isn’t any need to make it even harder by choosing to stay at home if you don’t find satisfaction in it. It is not against church teaching to work outside the home if it gives a person satisfaction. It is wrong to choose contraception no matter what.

I’m sorry you are struggling. We all have them. No one is criticizing your family size or your use of NFP. As I’ve said before, perhaps God sees your struggles and agrees you need a break.

 

[E_7]

“Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment. . . . For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God. . . . His conscience is man’s most secret core and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths.” (CCC 1776).

After all is said and done, never, ever go against your conscience. Pray, study, debate, think, agonize, but never go against your conscience.

That is the natural law.

And before following the conscience, it must be formed because there are other types of conscience like the erroneous one. That’s why , with logic and reason, we must form our conscience. It is bad to act on a erroneous conscience.

 

[Xantippe]

@Xantippe I can relate to social isolation to an extent.

When I was a little girl, my grandparents lived within walking distance. My mom’s aunt also lived within walking distance. My Godmother was a longer walk away, but a 5 minute car ride.

My Grandparents probably popped in most mornings, Then my mom would run some errands. Then she would come back and grandparents would stay for coffee.

My Godmother would be over frequently as well, even for a ten minute visit,

It was a judgment free zone of sorts. Our apartment could be cluttered and my mom in the middle of housework. My grandmother never seemed judgmental, she’d help out where needed.

My life as a mom hasn’t really ever looked like that.

My first few days as a mom had my mother in law criticizing me that i wanted to use paper plates and cups for the visitors. The fact that I had a post partum hemorrhage and 20 stitches was irrelevant, darn it. Guests are just too important for paper plates, break out the matching china, not even the mismatched mugs.

By the time my third child was born, any help that I had for my first 2 was gone.

Shuttling between the NICU and picking kids up from school, and groceries and post partum uterine infection.

Me.

No grandmother within walking distance. I actually never left my preemie with anyone except for DH until maybe he was 3. My mom, and she misplaced him. She found him eventually.

And the funny thing, I kept with NFP, through blood tests and changing NFP methods and driving 45 minutes to an NFP doctor. And progesterone supplements.And uterine biopsies and sonograms.

Most people I know in real life would think I am crazy for not having had my tubes tide. I have been to family functions where guests casually discuss getting their tubes tied after c-sections being so convenient.

I’ve had OB’s tell me NFP doesn’t work, I’ve had a CATHOLIC OB, when asked about clarification with NFP, said she prayed the Church would change and told me to use condoms.

I’ve had the best relationship with my NFP only OB. He’d ask me about my kids, if my DH was on board with NFP. He was familiar with the 3 main methods, and suggested which would work best with me. Helped me through a miscarriage in the most compassionate way.

AWESOME doctor I hope God blesses him I actually felt sadness when he stopped practicing. I guess I’m in the minority of having had a positive experience with NFP practitioners, and with NFP in general.

Thank you!

Your MIL paper plate story reminds me of some members of my extended family–in fact I think I’ve had a similar paper plate conversation, but fortunately not just after having had a baby.

 

[pensmama87]

Thank you!

Your MIL paper plate story reminds me of some members of my extended family–in fact I think I’ve had a similar paper plate conversation, but fortunately not just after having had a baby.

After our third was born, we used paper plates, napkins, etc. for a solid month (and I think a few weeks longer for lunches or any meals where DH wasn’t home.)

I may have had a few identity crises. “Who am I anymore?!?!”

 

[Xantippe]

After our third was born, we used paper plates, napkins, etc. for a solid month (and I think a few weeks longer for lunches or any meals where DH wasn’t home.)

I may have had a few identity crises. “Who am I anymore?!?!”

Funny!

With my third, there’s been an explosion of single-serving items (applesauce, baby yogurts, peanut butter, Nutella, soft cheeses in individually wrapped wedges, individually wrapped ice cream treats, etc.), things which had previously never entered my home. I was brought up to have very moralistic attitudes toward prepared food and single serving food, so it’s like I’m looking into a complete stranger’s fridge.

 

[pensmama87]

Funny!

With my third, there’s been an explosion of single-serving items (applesauce, baby yogurts, peanut butter, Nutella, soft cheeses in individually wrapped wedges, individually wrapped ice cream treats, etc.), things which had previously never entered my home. I was brought up to have very moralistic attitudes toward prepared food and single serving food, so it’s like I’m looking into a complete stranger’s fridge.

Yup. I stocked up on granola bars and string cheese yesterday, and finally acquiesced to the single serve yogurt cups. My kids can now fetch their own snacks. Hurrah!

You’ll be happy to know I upped our grocery budget. I feel less “gazelle intense” but I sleep better at night. I’m a better mom to my kids when I’m not trying to do more than I can.

 

[Xantippe]

Yup. I stocked up on granola bars and string cheese yesterday, and finally acquiesced to the single serve yogurt cups. My kids can now fetch their own snacks. Hurrah!

You’ll be happy to know I upped our grocery budget. I feel less “gazelle intense” but I sleep better at night. I’m a better mom to my kids when I’m not trying to do more than I can.

Very good all around!

Our youngest is also fond of helping herself, and the single serving stuff (while not the most budget-friendly) is easier and tidier and more hygienic for her to deal with by herself.

 

[LongingSoul]

Thank you for sharing a link to that article. I think you may misunderstand the position of some people posting on this thread. The article mainly addresses concerns that I haven’t seen here on this thread. Maybe I missed it, but I never noticed anyone here calling NFP a heresy. Did you think that some of your fellow Catholics here were saying that NFP is a heresy? I certainly wasn’t! I respect Catholics who use NFP in line with Church teachings.

My views are closer to something that the author Rev. Harrison starts of his article by stating is the criticism that he thinks is “reasonable and just”. It looks to me like those “reasonable and just” criticism are some very things that people here have posted, which you and Xantippe seem to have taken issue with. I quoted from your article and highlighted them below.

What we have come up against many times over the years at CAF are people who’ve essentially adopted a quiverful style of conjugal life and have elevated it to ‘the’ superior Catholic way so much so that they’ve eliminated all reasons as allowing for NFP and have an aggressive hostility towards anyone who tries to promote the beauty of NFP.

They promote a way that is so unrealistically difficult for many people who end up throwing their hands in the air and resorting or reverting to ABC. They claim that NFP can be used as a contraceptive mentality and they behold those who have done NFP as evil as ABC users. It’s an interesting fact that there are very few older Catholic proponents of leaving family entirely to divine providence around the place to keep up their fight. That’s because there always comes a time when they’ve had enough and that’s well before the end of the fertile life. Not having developed a practice of continence and feeling entitled by having ‘done their Catholic duty’ of producing a large family, there is either a convenient sterilisation or onanism which incidently the Church considers detestable. I have a real suspicion of them as trying to lure away our young from the practice altogether for some purpose.

The article recalls the first teachings of the Church about periodic continence…

The first time Rome spoke on the matter was 1853, when the Sacred Penitentiary answered a dubium (a formal request for an official clarification) submitted by the bishop of Amiens, France. He asked,** “Should those spouses be reprehended who make use of marriage only on those days when (in the opinion of some doctors) conception is impossible?” **The reply was: "After mature examination, we have decided that such spouses should not be disturbed [or disquieted], provided they do nothing that impedes generation" (quoted in J. Montanchez, Teologia Moral 654, my translation). By the expression “impedes generation,” it is obvious the Vatican meant the use of onanism (or coitus interruptus, now popularly called “withdrawal”), condoms, etc. Otherwise the reply would be self-contradictory.

The next time the issue was raised was in 1880, when the Sacred Penitentiary issued a more general response. The precise question posed was this:** “Whether it is licit to make use of marriage only on those days when it is more difficult for conception to take occur?” **The response was: "Spouses using the aforesaid method are not to be disturbed, and a confessor may, with due caution, suggest this proposal to spouses if his other attempts to lead them away from the detestable crime of onanism have proved fruitless." (This decision was published in Nouvelle Revue Theologique 13 [1881]: 459-460 and in Analecta Iuris Pontificii 22 [1883]: 249.)

In fact periodic continence helps people to overcome the detestable crime of onanism… which makes sense because at the end of the day common sense dictates that human beings with free will and an appreciation of the good of society for the wellbeing and education of their children… can discern according to many legitimate personal and social factors, their family makeup.