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GaryTaylor
Guest
Jesus isn’t in the OT? What was Isaiah referring to?
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SempirVeritas
Guest
if your talking about 7:14, context alone could disprove that
if your talking about 53 I got detailed exposes on this passage about 60 pages long. (if you want to read it that is)
Generally though if you look at context, the original tounge and how identical words are translated as “apple” the other 100 times they occur, but in a particular “Jesus passage” its translated as “cheese stick”
but in short,
its just what humans do, Muslims do it, Christians do it, mormons do it.
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sedonaman
Guest
This is playing into Muslim hands by being off topic.
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SempirVeritas
Guest
in what way do you think its playing into muslim hands? delving into that would be off topic, but “playing into muslim hands”?
you realize that its only Xians who see Jesus in Isa right?
so no, its not “playing into” anyones hands, but it is Off topic.
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jakasaki
Guest
Greeting new poster:
What do you mean in the above quote - please elaborate / explain
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Holly3278
Guest
It is because they believe that the Bible contains records of a lot of the “prophets” (including those who weren’t just prophets or merely prophets) even though they also believe that the Bible is “fallible”. That seems like a contradiction to me.
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StevieD
Guest
It is not just Muslims who do this. Mormons claim that the coming of Joseph Smith is foretold in the O.T. If I looked hard enough and twisted it far enough, I could find something that looked like a prophecy of my birth. (New religion anyone?)
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schaick
Guest
Because of this:
007.157
YUSUFALI: “Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper.”
PICKTHAL: Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.
SHAKIR: Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel (who) enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as for) those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful.
Funny because the verse points to Jesus:
007.157 YUSUFALI: "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;
Mohammad has condoned immorality in his Quran, prepbescent wives, beating of them, multiple sets of them,etc.:
*- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); *
Mohammad added burdens- food restrictions, strict dress codes, how to pray,-stripped people of their individuality, etc. Jesus is the one that releases:
He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them.
Even in the Quran Jesus is spoken of as the light of the world:* So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper." *
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sedonaman
Guest
Page down and see my post #120 to “thirddec” here forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7799394#post7799394 .
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jakasaki
Guest
I too was going to ask the poster regarding the “other” status under the religion parameter, but chose not to…
Didn’t want to get yelled at for going OT…
Didn’t want to get yelled at for going OT…
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Nabeel_Khalid
Guest
Guys… Guys … Guys
Ever heard of the term “Abrahamic Religions”. Well… there are 3 religions i know that fall in this category. 1) Judaism 2) Christianity, 3) Islam. All these religions tend to follow or emphasis on Prophet Abraham’s religious tradition, which basically is, One God. So, Muslims did not copy from Christians, just like Christians did not copy from Jews (well if you spiritually still believe that) And please stop comparing Muslims with Hindus, the later is not even an Abrahamic Religion
Coming back to the Golden Question: why do muslims try to find Mohammed in the bible?
Muslim believe that in all the four books: 1- Torah (Torait in Arabic on Prophet Moses) 2- Bible (Injeel on Christ) 3- Zaboor (blessed on the Prophet David - yes he is considered to be both a King and a Prophet in Islam) and 4- Quran.
In Muslim belief, the advent of the last prophet, (that is) Prophet Mohammad was mentioned in all the previous scriptures just as the Christians believe that the advent of Christ was mentioned in Jewish Scriptures. That’s why they try to look for it in Bible as well as Jewish Scriptures.
The speculation on this forum that Muslims believe the Christians and Jews lost/changed the original text (and Muslims have the only true word of God in Quran) is also true. Just consider all the different volumes of Bibles available in the market. All (claiming to say) the words of Christ but stressing on different sections… Which one (volume) is the true and most accurate word of Christ?
Muslims on the other hand still have the original text (even after 1400 years)…
Prophet Muhammad was a direct descendant of Prophet Abraham through his son Prophet Ismail. (Some one here implied that Prophet Muhammad wrote in Quran…) Prophet Muhammad could not read and write. God’s word was sent through Angel Gabriel to the Prophet which was either memorized or written down by the Prophet’s companions.
Ever heard of the term “Abrahamic Religions”. Well… there are 3 religions i know that fall in this category. 1) Judaism 2) Christianity, 3) Islam. All these religions tend to follow or emphasis on Prophet Abraham’s religious tradition, which basically is, One God. So, Muslims did not copy from Christians, just like Christians did not copy from Jews (well if you spiritually still believe that) And please stop comparing Muslims with Hindus, the later is not even an Abrahamic Religion
Coming back to the Golden Question: why do muslims try to find Mohammed in the bible?
Muslim believe that in all the four books: 1- Torah (Torait in Arabic on Prophet Moses) 2- Bible (Injeel on Christ) 3- Zaboor (blessed on the Prophet David - yes he is considered to be both a King and a Prophet in Islam) and 4- Quran.
In Muslim belief, the advent of the last prophet, (that is) Prophet Mohammad was mentioned in all the previous scriptures just as the Christians believe that the advent of Christ was mentioned in Jewish Scriptures. That’s why they try to look for it in Bible as well as Jewish Scriptures.
The speculation on this forum that Muslims believe the Christians and Jews lost/changed the original text (and Muslims have the only true word of God in Quran) is also true. Just consider all the different volumes of Bibles available in the market. All (claiming to say) the words of Christ but stressing on different sections… Which one (volume) is the true and most accurate word of Christ?
Muslims on the other hand still have the original text (even after 1400 years)…
Prophet Muhammad was a direct descendant of Prophet Abraham through his son Prophet Ismail. (Some one here implied that Prophet Muhammad wrote in Quran…) Prophet Muhammad could not read and write. God’s word was sent through Angel Gabriel to the Prophet which was either memorized or written down by the Prophet’s companions.
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MartinJordan
Guest
“In Muslim belief, the advent of the last prophet, (that is) Prophet Mohammad was mentioned in all the previous scriptures just as the Christians believe that the advent of Christ was mentioned in Jewish Scriptures”
This is Exactly where it all goes haywire. Prophet Mohammad (self proclaimed) found that this is the only way he can make himself heard by making this seem true. There is no hint of Mohammad anywhere.
With all due respect, there is nothing new you have brought here.
MJ
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sedonaman
Guest
The real golden question is: why do Muslims believe in a book [the Bible] that they say is corrupted? Any idea that is based on falsehood is itself false.
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sedonaman
Guest
Not to mention that a good part of the original was burned a few years after Mohammed’s death.
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Michaelgutowski
Guest
I agree that the muslims probably use the bible like the Mormons just for appearances sake. In reality they probably think the Bible is pure foolishness. Didn’t one of the popes say that Mohammed was/is evil!?
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MartinJordan
Guest
Greetings Sedonaman, could you please provide me a link where I can find the facts on this. All Muslims I have spoken to so far have told me that it’s not true (obviously they’ll say that) but I’d like to the info if you can be so kind.
Thanks.
MJ
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jakasaki
Guest
There is a hadith in the book of Bukhari - vol 6 #510 that Uthman had compiled the koran and burned all of the orignial variations which total 7 different readings.
Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan.
Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur’an, so he said to 'Uthman, “O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before.”
So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, “Send us the manuscripts of the Qur’an so that we may compile the Qur’anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you.”
Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman.
'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies.
'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, “In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur’an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur’an was revealed in their tongue.”
They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa.
**'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur’anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. **
Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur’an and I used to hear Allah’s Apostle reciting it.
So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): ‘Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.’ (33.23)
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sedonaman
Guest
Page down to “After the death of our beloved Prophet” in this Islamic website answering-christianity.com/quran/other_books.htm
And there is Andrew Bostom’s andrewbostom.org/blog/2010/09/10/caliph-uthman-the-koran-burner-and-the-not-so-great-koran-conflagration-kerfluffle/
google “uthman” with either “koran” or “qur’an” for more.
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sedonaman
Guest
One can only speculate why MartinJordan’s Muslim friends told him otherwise.
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jakasaki
Guest
It’s because they are too busy claiming they have the “original” koran as it was dictated to mohamad from the angel.
That is not so. There is no original - all the muslims have today is Uthmans koran.
The Shia claim that Ali had an original koran - but no one knows what happened to it.
Also, there is that new find in Yemen, where they dug up an old koran.
The muslim “authorities” will not let anyone fully study it.
There was a short study done by some German scholars on the Yemen koran- but they were not allowed to continue their work because they found discrepancies against Uthmans koran which muslims use today.
It seems that if a full study of the old koran takes place, it’s going to embarass islam/muslims.
Ah… same old story…
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