Hello…
I’ve enjoyed the conversation up to this point and I would like to add to the discussion.
Most non-Catholics don’t dislike Mary; In fact I’d argue that many admire her. It had to be a huge burden to realize that her son was to be the fulfillment of the ancient prophesy passed down generations – spanning hundreds of years – to Israelites like her; only to then be forced to watch as her son – the child she birthed 33 years ago – is tortured and impaled until dead.
But what non-Catholics are angry about is there seemed to be an assumption in Catholicism that Salvation – whether day-to-day or eternal – is found through prayer to Mary and the saints, when the
whole point to the Savior’s life and death was to
reestablish the direct connection back to our heavenly Father.
We had a direct connection in the beginning but we were soon cut off because of the first lie. What lie?
[Gen 3:1] …Then the serpent said to the woman, ‘
You will NOT surely die.’
So I swear to tell the truth…so help me God.
- No one who dies receives eternal life and goes to heaven…
- No one who dies goes to a place called purgatory…
- No one who dies goes to hell…
All who die – good or bad – simply “sleep” in death until they are “awaken” upon hearing the voice of the Savior at the end of days. Only then, will some receive eternal life or eternal judgment.
None of us want to imagine not existing – if even for a little while. We fear the darkness so strongly that we accept the Tradition of believing that Mary, saints and our loved ones are still alive in heaven and we pray to them (even though Jesus said that all who are dead are asleep). Unfortunately, many have never read the truth for themselves.
1. There are 3 parts to humans: Body, Spirit & Soul.
*: “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
2. The body is a temple made of dust; the spirit is the “breath of life” (or “power of animation”, given by God); and man IS a soul [being].
[Gen 2:7]: “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
We are not bodies that possess souls, nor are we spirits “riding” within bodies. We are souls/beings through the combination of spirit & body. This concept is also reflect in our biology; humans aren’t simply sperm that grows inside an egg as if the egg is a Petri dish, but we are sperm
and egg
combined, married together to form someone new.
3. Many confuse the following verse…but what’s explained is "without both body and spirit, we cease to be, and the power of life returns to God"
[Ecc 12:7] Then shall the dust [body] return to the earth as it was, and the spirit [power of animation] shall return unto God who gave it.
4. Death is sleep. And in sleep we cease to be.
[JOB 7:21] …For now shall I sleep in the dust; and Thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
[JOB 14:12] So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep
[PSALM 115:17] The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence;
[PSALM 146:3] Do not trust in princes, in mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. 4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts [his soul/Id/being] perish.
5. We all will be awakened from sleep when the Savior returns, and not a moment sooner.
[JOHN 5:28] Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.
[DANIEL 12:13] “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest [sleep in death], and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”
- Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[REVELATION 22:12] “And behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward [eternal life] is with me, to give to every one according to his work.”
The Savior told us how we should pray and gave an example:*
[Matthew 6:9-12] “
Our Father, which art in Heaven…”
[John 14:12-13 & 16] “…I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask
me] in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified…and I will
then] pray the Father…”
The point of conversation is towards the Father, and then sealed in the name of the Savior.
The Savior is the only interceder. Not the saints…and not his mother. His instructions were clear.
There is only One who demands all prayer and worship; no substitutes; no proxies.
Commandment #2
[Exodus 20:4-5] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or likeness of
any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5
and] Thou shalt not bow down thyself
for prayer or worship] to them, nor serve them: for the Lord thy God
am a Jealous God…
But unfortunately this specific commandment is not taught in the Catholic Tradition (I went to Catholic School all my life).
Many are angry at those who’d forsake the Son’s instructions about prayer, for Tradition, and
“thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition [Jesus says to the religious leaders of his day - Matthew 15:6]”.*
