Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[izoid]

Education is putting something out there and letting them make there own mind up about what it means to them.
Now to answer you question as to why you believe what you believe about Mary. Because that is what you were taught. Because you feel strongly about what you were taught as the truth.
As far as my belief in it. I believe you already know.

You see, I am a recent revert to Catholicism. I spent 20 years in a very anti Catholic environment so I was never taught about Mary. In fact, it has been the most difficult issue for me to reconcile.

It is through study and prayer that I have come to accept these things. I really needed to pray and separate myself from past understandings in order to really see what the Catholic Church teaches and practices. It was through this that I have been ale to accept and believe these teachings.

 

[rev_kevin]

Hardly driving me crazy. I would like to be enlightened as to WHY I think something. I figure a Baptist can best explain to a Catholic WHY we believe something.

I am guessing from you subsequent post that you did not mean WHY but WHAT? Teaching the dogma itself is very different than teaching the intentions behind it.

Now that that is said. Lets get back to Mary having children other then Jesus. I say yes and you say? Why do you say?

 

[GraceDK]

It’s funny you talk like this now, saying the Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts and opens our eyes… But when the Catholic Church says these things about Mary --well, everyone laughs in her face… They say -oh no,no,no… Thats not in the bible.

Look, I dont think you have read what I actaully said about Mary and about my oppinion of her.
I dont have a problem with what the church says about Mary but I certainly have a problem with what you said about her, namely that one is lacking in relationship with Jesus if one does not have a personal relationship with Mary.

In that way you can easily say that many of the first century martyrs and saints lacked in their relationship with Jesus, as well as you can say about certain other saints who said very little if anything about Mary. I mentioned St Patrick who is an early saint whose spiritality I relate much more to than marian devotional spirituality. Then there are your generelization which would then also concern thousands of evangelical holy brothers and sisters who have lived throughout time and heroically dedicated their life to serving Christ.

So, I think you are wrong. The moment you judge a Christian on their devotion to Mary you have gone off the line. And I also know for a fact that you don’t share oppinion with any of the Catholics I have spoken to about Mary in my quite conservative surrounding. Most of these love Mary and have a relationship with her which I do not, but they are clear that their personal spiritiality is theirs. What matters is that we look at Jesus. Thats at any rate the wish of Mary, about whom we do not know much else than that she is his lovely mother who accepted to carry him and nurse him with great faith. But the centre is always Jesus. This is a matter of religion. What relationship you have to any saint is not my business or anyones, as long as you respect that person and dont either slander nor worship him nor use him as a medium.

My Catholic teachers and friends would never call a person, who has little or no marian devotion, a person who is blind when it comes to motherhood and the sin contraception, nor would they judge about the quality of the relationship between that person and Jesus Christ based on marian devotion.
You did that, as you questioned really the state of my soul and my relationship with Jesus, and I find that to be one of the most distasteful and proud things a Christian can do to another Christian. I don’t even say, what you said to me, to the most hardened anti-Catholics I meet.

Please think about that.

Not I must sleep.
Peace and good night.

 

[TEPO]

Now that that is said. Lets get back to Mary having children other then Jesus. I say yes and you say? Why do you say?

The very thought of it makes me cringe.

 

[TEPO]

Look, I dont think you have read what I actaully said about Mary and about my oppinion of her.
I dont have a problem with what the church says about Mary but I certainly have a problem with what you said about her, namely that one is lacking in relationship with Jesus if one does not have a personal relationship with Mary.

In that way you can easily say that many of the first century martyrs and saints lacked in their relationship with Jesus, as well as you can say about certain other saints who said very little if anything about Mary. I mentioned St Patrick who is an early saint whose spiritality I relate much more to than marian devotional spirituality. Then there are your generelization which would then also concern thousands of evangelical holy brothers and sisters who have lived throughout time and heroically dedicated their life to serving Christ.

So, I think you are wrong. The moment you judge a Christian on their devotion to Mary you have gone off the line. And I also know for a fact that you don’t share oppinion with any of the Catholics I have spoken to about Mary in my quite conservative surrounding. Most of these love Mary and have a relationship with her which I do not, but they are clear that their personal spiritiality is theirs. What matters is that we look at Jesus. Thats at any rate the wish of Mary, about whom we do not know much else than that she is his lovely mother who accepted to carry him and nurse him with great faith. But the centre is always Jesus. This is a matter of religion. What relationship you have to any saint is not my business or anyones, as long as you respect that person and dont either slander nor worship him nor use him as a medium.

My Catholic teachers and friends would never call a person, who has little or no marian devotion, a person who is blind when it comes to motherhood and the sin contraception, nor would they judge about the quality of the relationship between that person and Jesus Christ based on marian devotion.
You did that, as you questioned really the state of my soul and my relationship with Jesus, and I find that to be one of the most distasteful and proud things a Christian can do to another Christian. I don’t even say, what you said to me, to the most hardened anti-Catholics I meet.

Please think about that.

Not I must sleep.
Peace and good night.

Good night… I’m having dinner, be back later.

…peace.

 

[izoid]

Now that that is said. Lets get back to Mary having children other then Jesus. I say yes and you say? Why do you say?

No children. Scripture never indicates that they did and the Church teaches that they did not. It has been widely understood for nearly 2 centuries so I find no reason to doubt it. Since the apostles, ECF’s, through to the early reformers, all believed she was a perpetual virgin, so do I.

Why do you think Jesus asked John to care for Mary instead of one of His brothers or sisters (that He didn’t have btw)?

 

[izoid]

Good night… I’m having dinner, be back later.

…peace.

Me too, dinner and cookie frosting with the neighbors.

 

[rev_kevin]

You see, I am a recent revert to Catholicism. I spent 20 years in a very anti Catholic environment so I was never taught about Mary. In fact, it has been the most difficult issue for me to reconcile.

It is through study and prayer that I have come to accept these things. I really needed to pray and separate myself from past understandings in order to really see what the Catholic Church teaches and practices. It was through this that I have been ale to accept and believe these teachings.

Me it was the opposite. I was Catholic and couldn’t reason why they believe the things they do. Like how can you not think that Mary had other children and that she remained a virgin the rest of her life. If you were Joseph and your wife wouldn’t have relations with you and you were married would it be a good marriage? Wouldn’t that seem strange to you no matter what? How many married couples never had relations with eachother. It just don’t stand to reason. They are married its condoned by God. Its ok.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

,

Again, what is the connection between the number of children a woman has and whether non-Catholics hate her?

Let’s say (for the sake of discussion) that Mary had two children; does THAT mean that all non-Catholics ergo hate her? Do you believe that all non-Catholics (be they Protestants, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintos, agnostics - whatever) hate all women with more than one child? Do Catholics only like those with one or fewer children?



.

 

[PRmerger]

My Catechism teacher said to me that the Church stated this, which I believe She might have. Its self evident. All the salvationstory is in the Bible. What is necessary to know about God and about man, and about the saving action of Christ in history is all there.

That is incorrect, Grace. The CC does not teach that the Bible is sufficient for our salvation. Firstly, because Scripture does not ever say that. It says, in fact, the opposite.

What is sufficient for our salvation is the Word of God, that is. Jesus, the Word Made Flesh.

 

[rev_kevin]

Reverend,

Teach your studentrs that we believe in the dogmas because the Holy Spirit guided us to believe in them…

I think the Dogmas speak for themselves.

 

[rev_kevin]

The very thought of it makes me cringe.

Why?
Do you believe that having relations with your spose is bad. If so you wouldn’t be here.
Or is it because it Mary and she can’t have relations with her husband the man she loves. Or is it because she would be cheeting on God?
What makes you cringe?
That sounds like my kids. You and mom doing you know what, that makes us cringe.

 

[rev_kevin]

Do you believe in the holy spirit ?

Yes
I also believe in God, Jesus, The Trinity, Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus, that I have a soul. That Mary and Joseph did you know what, That they had other children, that God loves me, that Jesus is our Savior, Need I go on?

 

[bryan123459]

That is incorrect, Grace. The CC does not teach that the Bible is sufficient for our salvation. Firstly, because Scripture does not ever say that. It says, in fact, the opposite.

What is sufficient for our salvation is the Word of God, that is. Jesus, the Word Made Flesh.

We are saved by grace; Jesus made this possible through his life, death, and resurrection. How could any Christian dislike Mary, the mother of Jesus? I think for some, Mary is avoided because she seems too “Catholic.” I read a book about Mary by a Protestant minister. He said as much–lots of good preaching on other women in the Bible, but too little on Mary.

 

[izoid]

Me it was the opposite. I was Catholic and couldn’t reason why they believe the things they do. Like how can you not think that Mary had other children and that she remained a virgin the rest of her life. If you were Joseph and your wife wouldn’t have relations with you and you were married would it be a good marriage? Wouldn’t that seem strange to you no matter what? How many married couples never had relations with eachother. It just don’t stand to reason. They are married its condoned by God. Its ok.

My mind has a much harder time grasping the idea of giving up, to death, my only son for someone else’s sins.

 

[TEPO]

,

Again, what is the connection between the number of children a woman has and whether non-Catholics hate her?

Let’s say (for the sake of discussion) that Mary had two children; does THAT mean that all non-Catholics ergo hate her? Do you believe that all non-Catholics (be they Protestants, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintos, agnostics - whatever) hate all women with more than one child? Do Catholics only like those with one or fewer children?

.

This thread has evolved, and now pertains to why non-catholics do not hear the Holy Spirit when he tells us about the Graces of Mary. It seems that it is because they have left the Church with Jesus as its Head.

The Church believes in good faith the dogmas which pertain to Mary… These dogmas were given to the Church from God, through the Holy spirit. All of the strict “bible-based” protesters of the Church are now left without the aid of the Mother of God, because they have seperated themselves from these gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks,
TEPO

 

[rev_kevin]

My mind has a much harder time grasping the idea of giving up, to death, my only son for someone else’s sins.

But thats not the subjest. Its Mary.

 

[TEPO]

Yes
I also believe in God, Jesus, The Trinity, Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus, that I have a soul. That Mary and Joseph did you know what, That they had other children, that God loves me, that Jesus is our Savior, Need I go on?

I cant believe these other “denominations” main objectives are nothing more than differences in opinion on whether Mary had sex.

They left the Church to prove senseless claims like this ?

Why the need to portray Mary as an average sinner? Why?

 

[rev_kevin]

I cant believe these other “denominations” main objectives are nothing more than differences in opinion on whether Mary had sex.

They left the Church to prove senseless claims like this ?

Why the need to portray Mary as an average sinner? Why?

Why do you say its senseless?
Because it was proclaimed by the church that Mary is perpitual virginity that was defined under anathema in the 3rd canon of the Lateran Council.

Because the Pope Martin 1 was insisting that the counsil remained Mary a Virgin?

Because the 2nd Dogma of Mary tell you to?

What is so hard to admit that Mary had other children?

Wasn’t she married?

Don’t married people have relations?

She would be cheeting on God?

So having relations with your spose is a sin?

Now the Bible is telling us to sin?

 

[rev_kevin]

This thread has evolved, and now pertains to why non-catholics do not hear the Holy Spirit when he tells us about the Graces of Mary. It seems that it is because they have left the Church with Jesus as its Head.

The Church believes in good faith the dogmas which pertain to Mary… These dogmas were given to the Church from God, through the Holy spirit. All of the strict “bible-based” protesters of the Church are now left without the aid of the Mother of God, because they have seperated themselves from these gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks,
TEPO

Are you for real?

Is that the best you can do?

Since when does Mary have to do with the gift of the Holy Spirit?

I thought it was a gift from God?

Now if we don’t believe that Mary only had one child, we can’t have the gift of the Holy Spirit?