Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[Dokimas]

Just out of curiosity, why is it necessary that it is the KJV?

It’s not necessary. I just like the impact the word ‘offend’ has on me; it touches me where I need touching better than ‘cause to stumble’ as in other versions say.

 

[Dokimas]

Jesus built His Church upon Peter, the rock. This is why He changed Simon’s name to Peter which means rock so that he could stand in for the Rock. He gave him the responsibility of feeding His flock because Jesus, the Shepherd, was returning to His Father in heaven. So, Jesus appointed a shepherd to stand in for Him on earth to take care of/protect His sheep from spiritual death.

Jn 21:15-18
So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Feed My lambs.”
16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”
17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?”
And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.”
Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep.

Only Peter was given these specific commands to spiritually nourish Jesus’ lambs (children); take care of/protect Jesus’ flock from spiritual death; and spiritually nourish Jesus’ sheep (adults and children). Only Peter was given the keys of the kingdom of God. Jesus could have restored Peter to justification without ever putting him in charge of His flock. Jesus’ Father personally chose Peter to lead Jesus’ Church.

Mat 16:17-19
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will** give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven**, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Jesus’ Church is of divine origin so it cannot err in doctrine since it is protected from doing so by the Holy Spirit. Jesus’ Church is also, however, ministered on earth by humans who can sin and do sin. Jesus called and chose Judas to be a leader in His Church. Judas’ betrayal did not cause Jesus’ Church to be tainted because in spite of Judas’ betrayal, Jesus is still in charge of His Church on earth. His Church is of divine origin; not human origin. He chooses the persons whom He desires to lead it; regardless of their personal holiness. Rom 13:1

Evil deeds done by persons within His Church certainly scandalize both the faithful and non-Christians. Each person, whether pope, bishop, priest, or lay member will be judged according to their own personal deeds. Rom 2:5-10

Jesus stated:

Mat 23:1-10
Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.

Jesus states that the scribes and Pharisees have been given the authority from/by God to rule in faith matters on earth. They have succeeded to this authority from Moses by the authority of God. This is why Jesus tells His disciples that they must listen to what they say and do what they say (until the New Covenant begins). However, He is also warning them that in His future Church in His New Covenant, that they better not act like these scribes and Pharisees because the scribes and Pharisees do not practice what they preach. They are hypocrites. Jesus uses exaggeration/hyperbole in order to stress the importance of what He is telling them. He does not literally mean that they cannot call their parents, “father,” or that those who teach cannot be called “teachers.”

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

1 Cor 4:15
For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Abraham is called father. Paul calls himself a father.

Eph 4:11
And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, James 3:1
God appoints teachers.

to be continued…

I hope you’re going to prove Peter believes the things about Mary that the CC does or this post would seem to be on the wrong thread.

 

[Carlan]

You should review those tracts for historical accuracy, among other things before assuming they are benevolent in nature.

yes, and those kind of tracts have an insidious way of creeping into the intellect and changing our thinking and mind set. They are best tossed away, the producers of them know the comic value of them.Carlan

 

[graceandglory]

If Tweetymom says she does not represent the CC then anyone who claims she does is in error. Please inform them of their error as you agree with her that she doesn’t speak for the CC.

Dokimas, I respect you for standing up for Tweety, but she has stated over and over again that she teaches RCIA. That means she is teaching the CATHOLIC faith to adult converts, and because of her own admission, she should be upholding her own doctrine.

If I went to a Mormon forum and learned that a Mormon elder (or whatever they are called) was teaching anti-Mormon doctrine at his stake house (or whatever they call it), and I could see that there were faithful Mormons who were calling his sincerity and integrity into question, and since these are anonymous boards… even as a Catholic who doesn’t believe in Mormonism, I would feel the faithful Mormons have every right to correct the out of line Mormon.

As a Catholic, I know that my faith teaches these Spiritual Works of Mercy.
The spiritual works of mercy are:
**
* To instruct the ignorant;
* To counsel the doubtful;**
* To admonish sinners;
* To bear wrongs patiently;
* To forgive offences willingly;
* To comfort the afflicted;
* To pray for the living and the dead.

It is our duty as Catholics to fight to protect our faith.

 

[tweetymom]

Dokimas, I respect you for standing up for Tweety, but she has stated over and over again that she teaches RCIA. That means she is teaching the CATHOLIC faith to adult converts, and because of her own admission, she should be upholding her own doctrine.

If I went to a Mormon forum and learned that a Mormon elder (or whatever they are called) was teaching anti-Mormon doctrine at his stake house (or whatever they call it), and I could see that there were faithful Mormons who were calling his sincerity and integrity in question, since these are anonymous boards… even as a Catholic who doesn’t believe in Mormonism, I would feel the dishonest Mormon has every right to be corrected by faithful Mormons.

I thought i explaned I teach what the Church wants taught in the other thread,. I am not representing the Church there. I am not teaching anyone here just expressing my thoughts\

 

[TEPO]

Protestantism drifts in and out with the times. It is based on individualism, which seperates it from the Church which is one Body, one Spirit in Christ.

Once seperated from the Church, one is left with only scripture as their personal, individual guide to salvation. They have no link to Mary the mother of the Church. Its obvious.

 

[graceandglory]

I thought i explaned I teach what the Church wants taught in the other thread,. I am not representing the Church there. I am not teaching anyone here just expressing my thoughts\

I was responding to Dokimas.

 

[TEPO]

I thought i explaned I teach what the Church wants taught in the other thread,. I am not representing the Church there. I am not teaching anyone here just expressing my thoughts\

In order to be a Catholic, you must believe in the dogmas whith your whole heart… You must also NOT attempt to convince other Catholics that the dogmas are not true. You know what the dogmas are, yet you openly denounce them, and advise others to do so as well.

And you call yourself Catholic.
You are out of line.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Lil and Kev,

Read Psalm 119:165 in the King James Version. If you don’t have the KJV I’ll copy and paste the verse.

Beautiful verse. It is so true. I also have a saint quote for you: “Leave sadness for those in the world. We who work for Christ should be lighthearted.” ~St. Leonard of Port Maurice

The CC does not say anything about Mary’s death–we are free to believe she died, or we are free to believe, as the Eastern Church teaches, that she simply fell asleep (i.e. the “Dormition of Mary”.)

What the CC says is “when the course of her earthly life was finished, (she) was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory…” *Pope Pius XII Munificentissiumus Deus *(1950)

I think it’s purposely using the circuitious phrase, “when the course of her earthly life was finished” to indicate, “we really don’t know if she died or not.”

Scripture does not tell us that she died.
There are no burial places where Mary’s remains have been venerated.

That is right, thank you!!!

I thought i explaned I teach what the Church wants taught in the other thread,. I am not representing the Church there. I am not teaching anyone here just expressing my thoughts\

Are you calling yourself a hypocrite?

[hypocrite: a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives]

 

[lil_flower_luv]

In order to be a Catholic, you must believe in the dogmas whith your whole heart… You must also NOT attempt to convince other Catholics that the dogmas are not true. You know what the dogmas are, yet you openly denounce them, and advise others to do so as well.

And you call yourself Catholic.
You are out of line.

If she follows the God of Truth, she should be more truthful. To others, and to herself.

 

[TEPO]

Thank you, Lil & PR.

Do you agree that Protastantism takes on the same ideals as that of the West as a whole ? Individualism.

Do you see that the Church does not sway ?

 

[SHW]

Continued:

Originally posted by Cristian B.

One more thing. Peter himself is not the rock the Church is built on, but all the apostles. The Church was built on the apostles with the living rock being Christ: consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. (Ephesians 2:19-20) If you go that way, Peter was not the only “father” but all the apostles were; and not the successors in flesh are the apostles descendants but the ones in spirit.

Peter is indeed the rock/foundation that the Church is built on. He was chosen specifically by God the Father and he alone was given the “keys” of authority. It is also built upon the other apostles and the prophets with Jesus as chief cornerstone.

Matthew 16:18
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

In the original Greek manuscript, there were no punctuation marks. In the Greek language, proper grammar mandates that Peter is the rock. Rock modifies the preceding noun Peter, so Peter is the rock.

I will give only an example: obviously, Peter didn’t like people to kneel before him, but looks like the Pope likes (if he wouldn’t, he’d tell them to stop) it when people kneel before him. If you say that they kneel before him because he is a “leader” then: I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!” (Revelation 22:8-9) The angel tells us to worship only God. Maybe you say that you don’t “worship” him, but you surely kneel before him, which is sin. God does not want us to kneel at His creations but at Him. If we can’t worship images, what makes you think that you can kneel before a living being? Who’s the greatest: the Creator or the creation?

John was so overawed/overcome by this vision given to him by the angel that he was going to worship the angel with the type of worship that is reserved for God only.

Genesis 18:1-5
Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4 Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant.” They said, “Do as you have said.”

In this Scripture passage, Abraham bows down to the ground before these “men” and calls them “Lord.” They did not reprimand him. This is because he was honoring them as men of superior rank instead of worshiping them as gods.

Romans 13:7
Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

1 Thessalonians 5:12-13
And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves.

The pope does not demand that people bow down before him nor does he demand that they kiss his ring. He is probably embarrassed by it since he is a humble man, but he does not desire to discomfit them by subduing their joy, so he accepts their esteem in order to honor their gift to him. People do this voluntarily in order to show their high esteem for his office of chief steward of Jesus’ Church on earth.

 

[PRmerger]

Do you agree that Protastantism takes on the same ideals as that of the West as a whole ? Individualism.

Yes, I agree. It’s really, in the end, alway about authority, isn’t it?

The Western way is “Me as the ultimate authority”. I go by what* I believe *the Bible says.

However, the existence of now over 40,000 different Protestant denominations is testament that this sad reality is a paradigm designed in the gates of hell.

 

[TEPO]

Continued:

Originally posted by Cristian B.

Peter is indeed the rock/foundation that the Church is built on. He was chosen specifically by God the Father and he alone was given the “keys” of authority. It is also built upon the other apostles and the prophets with Jesus as chief cornerstone.

Matthew 16:18
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

In the original Greek manuscript, there were no punctuation marks. In the Greek language, proper grammar mandates that Peter is the rock. Rock modifies the preceding noun Peter, so Peter is the rock.

John was so overawed/overcome by this vision given to him by the angel that he was going to worship the angel with the type of worship that is reserved for God only.

Genesis 18:1-5
Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3 and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4 Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant.” They said, “Do as you have said.”

In this Scripture passage, Abraham bows down to the ground before these “men” and calls them “Lord.” They did not reprimand him. This is because he was honoring them as men of superior rank instead of worshiping them as gods.

Romans 13:7
Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

1 Thessalonians 5:12-13
And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves.

The pope does not demand that people bow down before him nor does he demand that they kiss his ring. He is probably embarrassed by it since he is a humble man, but he does not desire to discomfit them by subduing their joy, so he accepts their esteem in order to honor their gift to him. People do this voluntarily in order to show their high esteem for his office of chief steward of Jesus’ Church on earth.

These are excellent posts…
Thank you for your effort in showing the truth of our Church.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Yes, I agree. It’s really, in the end, alway about authority, isn’t it?

The Western way is “Me as the ultimate authority”. I go by what* I believe *the Bible says.

However, the existence of now over 40,000 different Protestant denominations is testament that this sad reality is a paradigm designed in the gates of hell.

:sad_yes:

 

[graceandglory]

In order to be a Catholic, you must believe in the dogmas whith your whole heart… You must also NOT attempt to convince other Catholics that the dogmas are not true. You know what the dogmas are, yet you openly denounce them, and advise others to do so as well.

And you call yourself Catholic.
You are out of line.

Careful Tepo, we have to be really careful not to break forum rules ourselves, even if someone is out of line.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=132852

 

[TEPO]

Yes, I agree. It’s really, in the end, alway about authority, isn’t it?

The Western way is “Me as the ultimate authority”. I go by what* I believe *the Bible says.

However, the existence of now over 40,000 different Protestant denominations is testament that this sad reality is a paradigm designed in the gates of hell.

Thanks PR for acknowledging my posts… Its not that I dislike individualism in society, its just absurd to me that people feel the need to change the Church in this way as well…

I think this is why the Protestants do not ultimately acknowledge Mary… Because they want no involvement in a Church that claims to be “One Body, One Spirit” in Christ. The idea of Mary being OUR mother disrupts the whole “individualism” thing.

Just my opinion… Thanks for listening.

 

[SHW]

Didn’t the law Saul/Paul followed said blasphemers where to be put to death?

Yes. Blasphemy was a terrible crime against God in the Old Covenant and punishable by death Matthew 26:64-66. This was the crime that the high priest levied against Jesus, so they crucified Him.

Blasphemy is still a terrible crime against God in the New Covenant, but now in the 21st Century we no longer execute blasphemers. We now let God take His own vengeance (in His own way Hebrews 10:30) on blasphemers instead of us taking vengeance on them for Him. If we still did, Hollywood would now be a ghost town.

 

[SHW]

I hope you’re going to prove Peter believes the things about Mary that the CC does or this post would seem to be on the wrong thread.

I am answering a previous post. And, yes, Peter does believe the things about Mary that the CC does since he is in heaven and sees her in person quite often.

 

[SHW]

These are excellent posts…
Thank you for your effort in showing the truth of our Church.

Thank you for your kind words. They are sincerely appreciated.