Why do non catholics dislike Mother Mary?

[PRmerger]

So yes the word pray has a vast number of meanings,

:tiphat: Thank you for acknowledging that, kevin.

but when you pray to Mary which meaning are you using?

We are using “pray” as “talk” to, “beseech”–NOT worship.

example: I pray to Mary to ask her to pray for me before the eternal throne of heaven.

translation: I *ask Mary to pray for me before the eternal throne of heaven.
OR I’m talking to *Mary to ask her to pray for me before the eternal throne of heaven

[SIGN1]NOT to be translated as: [/SIGN1] I worship Mary when I’m asking her to pray for me before the eternal throne of heaven.

 

[PRmerger]

I just don’t see the sence in praying, talking, asking, Mary. When Jesus said pray like this he didn’t say Our Mary, who art in heaven, holy be your name… He said Our Father, who art in heaven, holy be your name… But if it your thing to pray to Mary then do it, its just something I don’t believe in.

Why must it be either/or? Why can’t we pray the Our Father, *and also *ask Mary to pray for us?

Do you see any sense in asking Mary Martinez of Grace Church to pray for you?

 

[rev_kevin]

:tiphat: Thank you for acknowledging that, kevin.

We are using “pray” as “talk” to, “beseech”–NOT worship.

example: I pray to Mary to ask her to pray for me before the eternal throne of heaven.

translation: I *ask Mary to pray for me before the eternal throne of heaven.
OR I’m talking to *Mary to ask her to pray for me before the eternal throne of heaven

[SIGN1]NOT to be translated as: [/SIGN1] I worship Mary when I’m asking her to pray for me before the eternal throne of heaven.

I don’t believe I mentioned the word worship.

 

[PRmerger]

They are not my cousins. Fellow Christians are Blood brothers and sisters by the Blood of Jesus.

But not uterine brothers, right?

So we are agreed that “brothers” does not necessarily mean “sharing the same womb?”

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t believe I mentioned the word worship.

Thank you.

So we are agreed that Catholics are not worshipping Mary when we pray to her?

 

[rev_kevin]

Because, unless you’re claiming to be an infallible interpeter of the Holy Spirit, you could be wrong?

And so can the Bishop’s, Pope’s who interpetered the Bible and gave your Dogma’s be wrong. There is not a human being that is infallible, we are all fallible.

 

[rev_kevin]

Thank you.

So we are agreed that Catholics are not worshipping Mary when we pray to her?

Like I said that word never came out of my mouth.

 

[rev_kevin]

That is a clear example of why scripture alone plus my fallible interpretation is not enough.
Let’s see, me and my 30 yrs of scripture study vs. God, The Holy Spirit, and 2,000 years of Saints and the Magisterium. I just can’t compete.

I believe the word I used was relative. Luke 1:36 “What’s more, your relative Elizabeth has become pregnant…”

If we are discussing the OT it cousin would be brother/sister because the OT was written in Hebrew but the NT was written in Greek and the word cousin is “suggenes” so if we are talking about Jesus having brothers/sisters which is in the NT then yes there is a word that means cousins.

 

[PRmerger]

And so can the Bishop’s, Pope’s who interpetered the Bible and gave your Dogma’s be wrong. There is not a human being that is infallible, we are all fallible.

Then you believe that it’s possible that the canon of Scripture is wrong?

That is, “fallible” bishops determined that the Gospel of Mark is inspired, but that the Gospel of the Nazoreans is not.

I am guessing that you would agree that, in this case, these “fallible” men, inspired by the Holy Spirit, were capable of making an infallible pronouncement: the canon of Scripture.

So why would you believe that these “fallible” men would then not be able to make any other infallible pronouncements?

 

[rev_kevin]

Then you believe that it’s possible that the canon of Scripture is wrong?

That is, “fallible” bishops determined that the Gospel of Mark is inspired, but that the Gospel of the Nazoreans is not.

I am guessing that you would agree that, in this case, these “fallible” men, inspired by the Holy Spirit, were capable of making an infallible pronouncement: the canon of Scripture.

So why would you believe that these “fallible” men would then not be able to make any other infallible pronouncements?

How do you know these men are infallible? Who says they are?

 

[PRmerger]

And so can the Bishop’s, Pope’s who interpetered the Bible and gave your Dogma’s be wrong. There is not a human being that is infallible, we are all fallible.

Another example:

Do you believe that Paul was fallible, and therefore incapable of producing inerrant epistles? That is, you believe that there are errors in the letter to the Corinthians?

Or, rather, is this another example of a “fallible” man being led by the Holy Spirit to be “infallible” in his writings?

 

[lil_flower_luv]

You are in opposition to your own church’s teaching regarding the Real Presence. Catholics believe that the Eastern Orthodox churches posses it as well. Why do you defy church teaching on this matter?

Forgive me. Whoever receives the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord is truly blessed. I wasn’t going against the Church’s teaching; simply trying to get my point across.

With all due respect, I don’t think this is true. So far as I can tell, Tweety was never taught about the Catholic faith, and never embraced it. Such a person cannot be accused of falling away, or “letting go” of the faith.

You bring up a very good point.

I believe you are wrong here. I will ask you a question as well. Why did the miracles stop? *Jesus replied, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.” * (Luke 18:27) God does not do what men should do. If a man can be healed by normal methods, God will not interfere. I will give you another example: while the Jews were in the desert, God gave them manna; but when they entered the Promised Land and settled down, God stopped the manna…why? Because God will not what the man’ should do! In that case, plant vegetables, trees, etc. I will give you another example: at the beginning of the Church God helped the apostles with many miracles and wonders… but at the end of their [apostles’] lives the miracles stopped. Why? Because at the beginning no one would believe them. But later on, what they thought was enough to believe, so the miracles were not needed. God couldn’t continue the miracles because faith comes from the Word, and the Word from hearing, not seeing.

Paul gathered a pile of brushwood and, as he put it on the fire, a viper, driven out by the heat, fastened itself on his hand. When the islanders saw the snake hanging from his hand, they said to each other, “This man must be a murderer; for though he escaped from the sea, Justice has not allowed him to live.” But Paul shook the snake off into the fire and suffered no ill effects. The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead, but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.

Here Paul survived but later on: Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus. Why was Trophimus sick if he was a co-worker with Paul? Because, in that moment miracles were not needed anymore. And as I told you, God said that He will not bear the man’s responsibility. “What is impossible with men is possible with God.” Only if it is impossible for man, if God wishes, He will interfere. If the man go to the doctor and be cured, He will not interfere. So you comparison is inaccurate and even incorrect.

My good friend you are very kind to reply to me and did a wonderful job of proving the greatness of God!

I only asked that question to Kev because I wanted to make it known that God gives us more than we need to live a life of happiness in Him. My point was He gave us Mary and the saints to intercede for us, simply to draw us nearer to Him, the same as a doctor brings us to physical healing. I asked that question to see if Kev thought a doctor’s help is similar to Mary’s help, when we all know all is just a gift God has given to us.

Thank you and God Bless.

Same to Tweetymom, Justy90, and Rev Kevin. I’m very sorry if I was ever rude or judgmental towards you. I look at my posts and do not see a Christ-like attitude reflected in them. Please forgive me. :grouphug: One thing is certain, and that is we must all see Christ in each other.

Therese

 

[PRmerger]

How do you know these men are infallible? Who says they are?

I’m asking you: do you believe they erred when they determined the canon of Scripture?

If they are incapable of being infallible, then you must doubt the Bible’s inerrancy.

 

[PRmerger]

Like I said that word never came out of my mouth.

Thank you for that, kevin.

There are many in this forum who accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary and it’s a tiresome battle, but it’s one that I’m willing to fight over and over and over.

But, I am glad that I can rest with you on this one!

 

[rev_kevin]

Another example:

Do you believe that Paul was fallible, and therefore incapable of producing inerrant epistles? That is, you believe that there are errors in the letter to the Corinthians?

Or, rather, is this another example of a “fallible” man being led by the Holy Spirit to be “infallible” in his writings?

Through different translations, it possible. All it takes is one wrong translation of a word, one mispelled word and it could change the meaning of what was originally written.

 

[PRmerger]

Through different translations, it possible.

Exactly!

So we can agree that your statement here:
There is not a human being that is infallible, we are all fallible.

can be understood as:*** it is indeed possible for fallible men to make infallible pronouncements,*** as they did when determining the canon of Scripture, as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Moses, Peter, etc did when writing their inspired words…all under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

 

[PRmerger]

Exactly!

So we can agree that your statement here:
There is not a human being that is infallible, we are all fallible.

can be understood as:*** it is indeed possible for fallible men to make infallible pronouncements,*** as they did when determining the canon of Scripture, as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Moses, Peter, etc did when writing their inspired words…all under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

And since we are agreed that it’s possible for fallible men to make infallible pronouncements, there ought to be no problem understanding the Catholic Church’s teaching on infalliblity.

After all, we have a history of it in the Church: those who wrote the Sacred Words and those who determined that these Words were indeed inspired–infallible pronouncements by fallible men!

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Exactly!

So we can agree that your statement here:
There is not a human being that is infallible, we are all fallible.

can be understood as:*** it is indeed possible for fallible men to make infallible pronouncements,*** as they did when determining the canon of Scripture, as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Moses, Peter, etc did when writing their inspired words…all under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

Amen!!

 

[rev_kevin]

And since we are agreed that it’s possible for fallible men to make infallible pronouncements, there ought to be no problem understanding the Catholic Church’s teaching on infalliblity.

After all, we have a history of it in the Church: those who wrote the Sacred Words and those who determined that these Words were indeed inspired–infallible pronouncements by fallible men!

Now can you answer my 2 questions in post 1676

 

[PRmerger]

I believe the word I used was relative. Luke 1:36 “What’s more, your relative Elizabeth has become pregnant…”

If we are discussing the OT it cousin would be brother/sister because the OT was written in Hebrew but the NT was written in Greek and the word cousin is "suggenes" so if we are talking about Jesus having brothers/sisters which is in the NT then yes there is a word that means cousins.

Actually, the Greek word for cousin is “anepsios.” The word "suggenes" means kinswoman.