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rev_kevin
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Not according to the new strong’s complete dictionary of Bible words.
“Suggenes” relative, countryman
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“Suggenes” relative, countryman
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PRmerger
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*How do I know these men were infallible? * Which men do you mean? The inspired writers (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, etc)? Or do you mean the bishops who determined the Canon of Scripture?
I used both examples to show that fallible men produced infallible pronouncements.
(I did not say they were infallible, BTW, but for the sake of this argument I’ll discuss, when I know which men you’re talking about.)
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rev_kevin
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The Bishops, Popes
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PRmerger
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And “anepsios”? What does that mean in English?
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PRmerger
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The same way that you know that the canon of Scripture is without error, and that the inspired writers (Matthew, Mark, etc) are without error when guided by the Holy Spirit–because the CC has proclaimed it.
To paraphrase St. Augustine: You would not believe in the Gospel were it not for the Catholic Church.
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rev_kevin
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rev_kevin
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Bingo. Because the Catholic church say so.
What you are saying is that the Catholic church said these men are infallible.
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PRmerger
Guest
Isn’t that exactly what I said here:
You said this originally:
I said that was incorrect.
You responded with this:
But you’re saying the same thing now that I did:
[SIGN]*anepsios *means cousin and *suggenes *means relative/countryman (or kinswoman).[/SIGN]
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PRmerger
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And you are saying it as well, kevin, don’t you see?
You agree that these bishops were infallible when they proclaimed the canon of Scripture.
You know that because the CC has told you so.
I’m just connecting the dots for you.
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PRmerger
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And, just so we’re precise: the CC is not saying these *men *are infallible–we are saying that when they teach or proclaim something on faith and morals, [SIGN]their teaching is infallible. [/SIGN]
And, again, you agree with this each and every time you quote Scripture. You are giving tacit approval to the authority of the Catholic Church.
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rev_kevin
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suggenes a relative{by blood} a fellow countryman, cousin, kin.
Isn’t that exactly what I said here:
You said this originally:
I said that was incorrect.
You responded with this:
But you’re saying the same thing now that I did:
[SIGN]*anepsios *means cousin and *suggenes *means relative/countryman (or kinswoman).[/SIGN]
We both are right suggenes and anepsios mean the same thing. Don’t play with me.
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rev_kevin
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I didn’t agree with you. I don’t believe the Catholic church has any power or authority. I don’t believe they are the one true Church. I believe they are fallible. So don’t say I agree with you because I don’t.
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PRmerger
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I am puzzled by your reaction.suggenes a relative{by blood} a fellow countryman, cousin, kin.
We both are right suggenes and anepsios mean the same thing. Don’t play with me.
I am merely responding to your seeming correction of my post:
The word “not” there made it seem as if you were disagreeing with me.
I apologize for not realizing you were not disagreeing with me. (In other words, I apologize for thinking you were disagreeing with me.)
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rev_kevin
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And I was responding to your correction of the word in my post.
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Randy_Carson
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Oh, good…an easy one!
The Infallibility of the Catholic Church Proved from Scripture
The following verses suggest that the Catholic Church is protected by God from ever teaching error in matters of faith and morals, and questions concerning each verse are provided as food for thought.
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Q: If Jesus promised to build his own church and that Church ever fell into doctrinal error, would this mean that a) Jesus was a liar, b) Jesus did not have the power to protect his own church, or c) Jesus was incompetent as a church builder?
Matthew 18:15-18
If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
Q: If the Church has the authority to bind and loose on earth in a manner that is also true in heaven, then assuming that there is no error in heaven, can the Church err on earth?
Matthew 28:20
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
Q: If the Church fell into doctrinal error at any time during the nearly 1500 years before the Protestant Reformation, did Jesus remain with the Church “always”?
Luke 10:16
“He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Q: If the Church speaks with such authority that those who hear the Church are actually hearing Christ and such that anyone who rejects the words of the Church are rejecting Christ Himself, can the Church ever be allowed to speak error on behalf of Jesus?
John 14:15-16
15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—
Q: If the Church fell into doctrinal error, would this indicate that Jesus did not give the Counselor or that the Counselor simply failed to remain with the Church “forever”?
John 14:18
18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Q: If the Church ever fell into doctrinal error, did Jesus actually leave us as “orphans” during all that time?
John 14:26
26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Q: Despite this promise, did the Holy Spirit fail to teach the Church “all things” or to remind the Church of the things that Jesus had said to the Apostles?
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Q: Did the Holy Spirit fail to guide the Church into all truth?
Now, consider the following three verses:
1 John 4:4
4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
1 Timothy 3:13
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
Mark 3:27
27In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house.
Q: Is Satan stronger than Jesus, is the Church the household of God, and can Satan rob the Church of the deposit of truth by “binding” Jesus in any way?
In light of the above, is it possible that the Church fell into doctrinal error? Taken individually, each of these verses creates a problem for those that assert that the Church “went off the rails” at some point in history. Taken as a whole, they portray Christ’s own involvement in building, nurturing and protecting His Church until the end of time. The Catholic Church remains strong and vibrant – not by her own efforts or innate qualities – but because God Himself is leading and guiding her to ensure that “the gates of hell will not overcome it.”
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Randy_Carson
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In a spiritual sense, yes. After all, Paul called himself the father of the different churches, so why would it not be appropriate to consider that through Mary, Jesus (and thus the Church - the rest of us) was born?
This is a common understanding - among Catholics, anyway.
Correct. The Catholic Church (as well as Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and Wesley) holds that Mary remained ever-virgin.
Not that she couldn’t but that she didn’t.
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Randy_Carson
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BlackJack774answers below:
1 Yes as stated above John 19:26,27 “When Jesus therefore say his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, BEHOLD THY MOTHER! and from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Thinking of the context of this passage. Jesus dying on a cross. Looks and see his mother and entrusts his mother to John. Not an older sibling. Jewish law would have commanded the former. Jesus had no other siblings.
If we take this in conjuction with Matthew 28:19-20 Jesus said, 19” Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Fatther, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you …
Jesus commanded John to take the Blessed Mother as his mother. I believe it is only fitting that this is a part of the teaching passed on. We should take her as our mother too.
2 I believe she was filled with the Holy Spirit and born without original Sin. As in Luke 1:30 The angel Gabriel called Mary Full of Grace. Never before had that been used to address a human on earth. Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit through Mary. Joseph was her spouse.
3 Yes. Matthew 1:25 is emphasizing the virgin birth.
4 I’m not saying she couldn’t, but the scripture reveals that she didn’t. There are instance however where it says his brother Mt 13:55-56 for example, but this is due to a translation issue with aramaic and Hebrew. There is no word for cousin. You see Mary was used for God’s purposes. For what was holy. To bring the living Word in to this world in the form of a Man. Jesus Christ. In the Old testament the items of the Temple were used only for what was holy. Joseph knew this and would not have slept with Mary. There is also the ideal that Joseph being much older then Mary, had children from a previous marrage before Mary.
Hopefully that helps.
Please forgive my poor spelling.
:clapping:
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Randy_Carson
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Please start by telling us whether you are a Jehovah’s Witness. Your views that the souls of those who have died are asleep is not orthodox Christianity.
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
This is confusing. First you say that original sin does not pass down…then you say that our nature has been changed. Thus, the nature that we receive from our father (and mother) is a fallen nature. You are saying two things.
Ah…we have inherited a fallen, sinful nature. Consequently, we have a tendency to sin. However, we are not born innocent. We are born under condemnation as a result of the fallen nature that we inherit.
Uh…because it’s true?
The word you’re searching for in “consummated” not consumed, but I suspect English is not your first language. No problem…I don’t speak a word of Spanish.
Where does the Bible teach that Mary consummated her marriage with Joseph by having sexual union? Chapter and verse, please.
Oh? If Joseph was a widower, would the fact that he had been married previously to a woman who died make him unrighteous? :nope:
Nothing - despite a nagging myth that the Catholic Church is somehow against it. We argue for the Perpetual Virginity because it is true, and the truth will set you free, brother.
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Randy_Carson
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Rev-
Let’s assume for the moment that God did call you to become a minister and that this was not simply a career choice based upon your own interests and inclinations, okay? I’m being serious…God may have called you to be a minister.
My opinion is that God sees that a large portion of His flock has wandered away from the fold of the Catholic Church - the one Church that He promised to build. Further, God sees that this situation is not going to change for the lifetimes of many of His sheep.
Consequently, He needs people to shepherd these lost sheep as best they can until they can be rounded up and returned to the care of the shepherds that He established beginning with Peter, the rock, and the successors of the Apostles, the Bishops of the Catholic Church.
Therefore, take care of those entrusted to you because you are a man who will be called to give an account (cf. Hebrews 13:17).
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Randy_Carson
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Worship
Praise
Thanksgiving
Intercession
There are lots of things we can do in our “prayer time” and not all of them are worship.
Similarly, we can talk to the saints and angels just as we talk to God without worshipping them.
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