Why do people hate us SOOOO much?

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Ani_Ibi said:
This is what you say about Baptism of Desire. What does the Church say about Baptism of Desire?
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We know what the CCC says about Baptism of Desire, here is what St. Robert Bellarmine has to say,
“Perfect conversion and penitence is rightly called baptism of desire, and in necessity at least, it supplies for the baptism of water. It is to be noted that any conversion whatsoever cannot be called baptism of desire; but only perfect conversion, which includes true contrition and charity, and at the same time a desire or vowed intention of baptism” (De Sacramento Baptismi, Liber I cap. VI).
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St. Alphonsus Ligouri on the baptism of blood
“The baptism of blood is the shedding of blood, or death suffered for the faith or for some other Christian virtue… this baptism… remits the fault and the punishment due sin” (Theologia Moralis, Tomus III, Tract II, author’s translation).
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Thanks mg!

Here is a summary of baptism of desire:
It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood.
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… The baptism of desire (baptismus flaminis) is a perfect contrition of heart, and every act of perfect charity or pure love of God which contains, at least implicitly, a desire (votum) of baptism. The Latin word flamen is used because Flamen is a name for the Holy Ghost, Whose special office it is to move the heart to love God and to conceive penitence for sin. The “baptism of the Holy Ghost” is a term employed in the third century by the anonymous author of the book “De Rebaptismate”. The efficacy of this baptism of desire to supply the place of the baptism of water, as to its principal effect, is proved from the words of Christ. After He had declared the necessity of baptism (John 3), He promised justifying grace for acts of charity or perfect contrition (John 14): “He that loveth Me, shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him and will manifest myself to him…”
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If it be said that this doctrine contradicts the universal law of baptism made by Christ (John 3), the answer is that the lawgiver has made an exception (John 14) in favor of those who have the baptism of desire.
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OK, I think we have gone off topic with this. Let’s return to the discussion of the OP.

🙂
 
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TheApologist:
Hey I helped too! Err…anyway.
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Sorry to Apologist and those I left out. Hugs in your general direction.

:grouphug:

(Ani sheepishly slinks into the shadows.)
 
Joey Warren, I applaud your excellent post and understanding. It is one of the best I have ever read, however:
Really: to “worship” Mary would require that the intellect makes a firm decision to believe that Mary is Divine or that she created the world. Even the most uneducated catholic, I believe, does not make that kind of intellectual decision. Thus, Mary cannot be worshipped unless a person claims, with full intellect, that she is divine. Case closed.
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It all boils down to what you have said here. And it would require knowing the heart and mind of the individual Catholic. For a protestant, prayer is talking to unseen spiritual beings and should be reserved for God alone (have no other Gods before me). Because prots are usually sola scriptura, they will emphasise the “one mediator between God and man” and that Jesus constantly prays for us to the Father, from Scripture. So to move from that to praying for intercession via Mary or anyone else seems genuinely blasphemous, at least at first. As a cradle Catholic, you just accept it because it has always been there without questioning, which is the easier path. Same thing with prayers to our Guardian Angels, or Prayer to Archangel Michael.

As for the RCC having a lot of explaining to do, indeed She does if she wishes to be understood by other denominations. I hope to be involved in this, having seen both sides, and pray that I am not reaching above my station in life to :engage in theo dialogue and fraternal knowledge" as the CCC says.

A simple instance. In the Hail Mary, “Mother of God” sounds at first like Mary is mother of the Godhead, or God the Father, because that is what prots first think of when they think of God. So it requires an explanation: Mary is the mother of Jesus, correct? Jesus is God, correct? You can’t separate Jesus into parts, He is a person, fully human and fully divine, correct? Therefore Mary, because she was mother of Jesus, was mother of God. Catholic don’t believe that Mary is Mother of God the Father. But at first that’s what “Mother of God” seems to mean, to prots. Further, it would be possible I believe to be Catholic and never say a Hail Mary (although I do).

Once over “the hurdle” you start praying it and it’s a beautiful prayer, like a diamond, and each time I pray it there is some new beauty to see. I find it comforting that Our Mother will be praying for me in the hour I die, and hope for a comfortable death.:gopray2:
 
Please remain on topic.

**Why do people hate us SOOOO much?

**MF
 
IMHO, the primary reason they hate us so much is the Marian Doctrines. Everything else is chump change in comparison.
 
They’ve picked beliefs they want to be true. They find our beliefs greatly in contradiction with theirs and so hate us.
 
I thought I explained pretty well above that Protestant antagonism of Catholics is understandable given what Protestants think Catholics believe. It is on-topic, because at it’s core there is a lot of misunderstanding of what Catholics believe.

However I understand that what happens in the Southern US is a different thing again.
 
Anyone notice on the topics they have listed they don’t mention divorce ???

Typical of these websites.
 
steve_green_2 said:
Anyone notice on the topics they have listed they don’t mention divorce ???

Typical of these websites.
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I’m not going to even bother looking, but do they mention anything about the unbiblical practice of artificial contraception?
 
ukdal1 said:
Check out this page from Baptistpillar.com… All the stuff they say is so full of garbage and falsehoods its unreal!!! I converted over recently from being a Baptist, and I know what is said about Catholics, but this really takes the cake 😦

here it is baptistpillar.com/bd0039.htm

I really dont know what to say 🤷
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There are a lot of false, anti-Catholic statements going on. But we don’t worry about that, This should be the key to knowing that you are in the Church that Jesus Christ founded. He said John 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they willpersecute you", and Mat 5:11 “Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven”

Only the Catholic Church is so reviled and lied about, this is proof that we have found the Church of Jesus Christ; so be of good cheer, you’re in the right place.

If the world ever stops reviling and persecuting and uttering falsehood against us, that’s when we will start to worry.

Another consideration is this: If Jesus God set up His Church while He was on earth, He could set it up the way He wanted. So why would He establish (and more importantly, allow to continue) a Church that had got His life’s work totally wrong? God’s Spirit guides all of us - if the Early Church were messing things up, surely He would have rectified the problem ASAP. Why wait 1600 years to suggest a new path? Why let so many souls be taken to the lake of fire unnecessarily?
It is extremely presumptuous for them to intimate that Jesus abandoned His Church for 1600 years, contradicting what He Himself stated!
 
Ignatius said:
There are a lot of false, anti-Catholic statements going on. But we don’t worry about that, This should be the key to knowing that you are in the Church that Jesus Christ founded. He said John 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they willpersecute you", and Mat 5:11 “Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven”

Only the Catholic Church is so reviled and lied about, this is proof that we have found the Church of Jesus Christ; so be of good cheer, you’re in the right place.

If the world ever stops reviling and persecuting and uttering falsehood against us, that’s when we will start to worry.

Another consideration is this: If Jesus God set up His Church while He was on earth, He could set it up the way He wanted. So why would He establish (and more importantly, allow to continue) a Church that had got His life’s work totally wrong? God’s Spirit guides all of us - if the Early Church were messing things up, surely He would have rectified the problem ASAP. Why wait 1600 years to suggest a new path? Why let so many souls be taken to the lake of fire unnecessarily?
It is extremely presumptuous for them to intimate that Jesus abandoned His Church for 1600 years, contradicting what He Himself stated!
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Very good post 👍
 
From the article:
Because of our Doctrines: Baptists believe in contending for the faith once delivered to the saints. We shun all tradition and teaching that is contrary to scripture.

We hold dear such doctrines as the Trinity(where is it in the Bible?), Bible Inspiration, Salvation by Grace, Election, Particular Redemption, Heaven, Hell, Repentance, Faith, Autonomy of local church, Depravity, Two Symbolic Ordinances, Second Coming of Christ, Priesthood of the Believer, One Advocate, and so on. I think we Catholics have these pretty well. But the Trinity is nowhere explicitly in the Bible-it comes from…TRADITION!
 
Personally, I think that Christians that hate Catholics are ignorant about Catholicism and have too much false pride/fear of learning the truth.
Much of the same has to be said about many Catholics as well who ignore scripture for the sake of political correctedness though, so none of us are immune to this.
As Catholics though, we need to set an example and show the rest of them how is done.

Peace:thumbsup:
 
They hate The Catholic Church because it does not leave any room for “their truths”. The Catholic Church claims to have THE ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC TRUTH. This is perceived as intolerance which seems to have become 6he number one “sin” in the world today.

Though we believe everyone should have the freedom to practice the religion of their choice, we do not allow that all religions are equally true. And that really ticks some folks off.

Chuck
 
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