Why do people leave the Catholic Church?

[Peter_J]

Or they see that the teachings of the RCC are not consistent with scripture in regards to these matters.

Interesting … I would say that people become Catholic because they see that the teachings of Protestantism are not consistent with scripture.

Perhaps our thought processes are more similar than we sometimes like to admit.

 

[ritthichai]

There are so many replies on this topic! The ones that would seem most likely to know are those who have left the Church, so here is my contribution.

Some may leave because they believe they find greater solace (or freedom in their chosen lifestyle) in other denominations. Some leave because the Catholic Church fails to love up to the high standards it claims for itself. From a European perspective, people seem to be abandoning most forms of institutionalised religion, and I believe they leave because they find such institutions intolerant of diversity.

The idea of a divinity who feels it necessary to dictate how people live their lives in the smallest degree hardly fits in with the kind of society we live in today. [It is surely not solely due to chance that the Reformation started at a time when people were discovering other continents where whole populations managed to live quite well without any knowledge of Christianity.] We are living in a postmodernist world, where people have realised that a single metanarrative can no longer apply. We are all different, vive la difference!

What is sad for the Catholic Church is that she most often seems to listen to the vocal minority who remain - the right wing who feel they have to maintain ‘sacred tradition’ in place of re-interpreting tradition in the light of new knowledge. Hence the early opposition to scientific discoveries (the earth not being the centre of the universe), etc. - including the old bugbear which is homosexuality which today’s secular society often seems to have no issue with.

If we cannot reinterpret morality and tradition anew, we would inevitably be left all living with those of the Middle East 2,000 years ago - which is why, of course, the Catholic Church and other fundamentalist Christians appear to the majority of secular society to be as firmly opposed to any modern morality as the Ayatollahs and Taliban - who also fanatically quote their interpretations of scripture as if it can never change.

The Catholic Church ends up claiming it is under attack on all fronts - not true - it is under attack where it opposes the civil rights of minorities, and is found frankly wanting by anyone commited to pluralism and human rights for all.

The liberals leave, the right wing flourishes and is ever vocal… When the Church is seen again as a loving and fully accepting community, the rot will cease.

A Liberal ex-Catholic

+++

PS Anyone who claims that salvation is only possible within the Catholic Church, and/or to those who happen to be heterosexual, or even that only men can be priests because some “traditonalists” in Rome say so, is claiming that the power of the Almighty is somehow severely limited - if that isn’t a heretical view of the Godhead I don’t know what is!

(And yes, I do think that those who want the Latin mass should at least first demonstrate an adequate knowledge and understanding of Latin.)

 

[PJM]

I just joined the group April, 2008. I am a 53 yr old, always single man. Left the CC at 24 - have only attended an occasional Mass to placate visiting relatives as a good host or guest. Baptized in 1955, confirmed 1962 (Fr Timothy Manning - future LA, CA Cardinal), 1st Holy Communion in 1966.

Had a sporadic Catholic education - Catholic boarding school from 7-11 years old, then a variety of public and private schools until my 1975 HS graduation.

Quite simply, I grew up with a very authoritarian view of God, the CC – basically, I was told to shut up from all parties for my Q’s about the CC. From 7-11, went to Mass 5 days a week – all I ever learned from the CC was blind obedience:bowdown2: to rules, expectations and authority. Funny thing is - I saw all of the same in the large “evangelical/non-denominational” churches I attended in Southern California over 32 years.

I readily admit that none of the Protestant churches can be the true Church that Christ created or intended. I am only receptive to re-exploring the CC I never knew or learned about in my childhood. I am not ready to rejoin the CC – I have too much pain, anger, confusion and negative expectations of not being loved or accepted by any CC person for my long absence. I expect to be scolded, ridiculed, scorned and rejected. I prefer the anonymity of the Internet to safely explore my questions without meeting other Catholics. I’d like to have a better understanding :coffeeread: of what I was supposed to get in my childhood – unfortunately, I have too much anger and mistrust to expect any real change in my heart.

But I appreciate everyone’s insights. I just don’t know where to begin in my spiritual journey today.

   **Our dear friend in Christ, we are over joyed that you are considering returning to the One True Church, the CC!**

    Know that all you will receive from Informed, Practcing RC's like me, is Love, and truthful-charitble rwsposnces that conform ot the RCC current and I must admit, binding teachings.

   I am a 64 year old RCC with 12 years of Good Catholic Education, and have in the past twent years spent many thousands of hours in learnung abd sharing our RCC Faith.

  Certainly, there are things we must all hold as true, the Commandments for example, and not just their catagory of sins headings, but what they actually obliagte. 

  However, we should be able (God willing) to expalin not only what we believe, but very importantly, also why we believe it.

 If you'd be more comfortable asking your questions on this Forums "***private mail system*** know that I will take the time necessary to respond to how ever -many questions and concerns that you have.

 If actually frightens me that so many professed Catholics are as rude and lacking compassion and inderstanding, on this forum.

 Begain, that's the key! Where you choose, and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us from there! Ask what ever you wish! We can take it, even if it hurts a bit.

  You may???? wish to start attending Mass again, but know that there have been some changes (perhaps more in parts of Califronia than other places?) Pray daily for help:gopray2: 

 So if I can be of help, or we can be of help, please let us know.

 I'll add you to my prayer list;) 

 God bless you and may He illumine your path!

 

[Peter_J]

There are so many replies on this topic! The ones that would seem most likely to know are those who have left the Church, so here is my contribution.

True, in a sense, but I think their perceptions of it tend to be colored by what they currently are. For example, I’ve noticed that a lot of people who left the RCC and later reverted will say “People leave the Catholic Church because they are ignorant of what the Church teaches”, etc.

Conversely, just knowing that you’re a “liberal ex-Catholic” gives me a pretty good idea what you’re going say about the reasons people leave the Church.

What is sad for the Catholic Church is that she most often seems to listen to the vocal minority who remain - the right wing who feel they have to maintain ‘sacred tradition’ in place of re-interpreting tradition in the light of new knowledge.

Fascinating. :ehh:

As you may or may not know, a lot of Protestants (and Orthodox of course) would say the problem is just the opposite. I.e. they’ll say that the Catholic Church hasn’t adhered to the unaltered Deposit of Faith, but has introduced “new teachings”.

I guess it just goes to show that you can’t please everyone.

 

[seekdatruth]

True, in a sense, but I think their perceptions of it tend to be colored by what they currently are. For example, I’ve noticed that a lot of people who left the RCC and later reverted will say “People leave the Catholic Church because they are ignorant of what the Church teaches”, etc.
**Yes, it’s true what you said also, but it says nothing of their integrity or intelligence. Why do you suppose their education suffered? **
Conversely, just knowing that you’re a “liberal ex-Catholic” gives me a pretty good idea what you’re going say about the reasons people leave the Church.
Because everybody knows exactly what ex-Catholics think and feel before they were even ex, so why should they have bothered to stay? Personally, I felt my intelligence insulted because questions were not allowed. I saw that following rules was more important than true repentance, forgiveness, or a desire to consciously do God’s will. I later learned that this is not the true intention of the Church, and also something can be spiritually gained from being where I’m not wanted, but not until after many wrong turns and sinfulness along the way, which has ironically made me unforgivable in the eyes of the people of the Church upon my attempted return. Only as adults, do we usually have the conviction to return or stay under this type of resistance.

 

[Graubo3]

Quite simply, I grew up with a very authoritarian view of God, the CC – basically, I was told to shut up from all parties for my Q’s about the CC. From 7-11, went to Mass 5 days a week – all I ever learned from the CC was blind obedience:bowdown2: to rules, expectations and authority.

Wow! That is uncannily similar to how I felt growing up. I left because of the Church’s stance on birth control/abortion and because our parish priest would not baptize my non-practicing cousin’s daughter.
Strange thing is, I came back to the Church 20 years later and one major reason was because of Her stance on birth control/abortion!

But I appreciate everyone’s insights. I just don’t know where to begin in my spiritual journey today.

Pray and read to learn. There are many well informed Catholics on CAF that may be able to lead you in areas to find your answers that you may be seeking. IMHO, I was blown away that in the nearly 2000 years history of the Church, almost every question that I had, had already been answered. God bless you on your journey.

Peace, Graubo

 

[Peter_J]

Because everybody knows exactly what ex-Catholics think and feel before they were even ex, so why should they have bothered to stay?

Not at all. I think you’re reading too much into my statement (to wit “Conversely, just knowing that you’re a “liberal ex-Catholic” gives me a pretty good idea what you’re going say about the reasons people leave the Church.”)

Personally, I felt my intelligence insulted because questions were not allowed.

I hope this doesn’t sound like a cop-out, but I think you should realize that that can happen in Protestantism just as much as in Catholicism. It stems from a little thing called “human nature”.

I saw that following rules was more important than true repentance, forgiveness, or a desire to consciously do God’s will. I later learned that this is not the true intention of the Church

Exactly, friend!

 

[seekdatruth]

seekdatruth:
“Because everybody knows exactly what ex-Catholics think and feel before they were even ex, so why should they have bothered to stay?”
PaulJ:“Not at all. I think you’re reading too much into my statement (to wit “Conversely, just knowing that you’re a “liberal ex-Catholic” gives me a pretty good idea what you’re going say about the reasons people leave the Church.”)”
No I did nothing of the sort, I took it completely at face value and stated personal experience to say why I disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekdatruth View Post
Personally, I felt my intelligence insulted because questions were not allowed.
PaulJ: "I hope this doesn’t sound like a cop-out, but I think you should realize that that can happen in Protestantism just as much as in Catholicism. It stems from a little thing called “human nature”.
Did you finish reading my post before you responded, or do you relish insulting me?

 

[Peter_J]

Did you finish reading my post before you responded

Yes.

** do you relish insulting me?**

No.

BTW, are you saying that it doesn’t “happen in Protestantism just as much as in Catholicism”? Or are you just upset that I pointed that out?

 

[Salonika]

needgodsgrace:

Quite simply, I grew up with a very authoritarian view of God, the CC – basically, I was told to shut up from all parties for my Q’s about the CC.

Been there, done that (in other churches). Think some people do not understand that asking questions is intrinsic to some of us and that we are not asking to be difficult or put people on the spot. Also sometimes they should be more concerned when we are not asking quesitions.

needgodsgrace:

Funny thing is - I saw all of the same in the large “evangelical/non-denominational” churches I attended in Southern California over 32 years.

Don’t think that’s surprising as not liking questioning is not the exclusive domain any any particular church/denomination. Nor of any particular political or social movement.

needgodsgrace:

I have too much pain, anger, confusion and negative expectations of not being loved or accepted by any CC person for my long absence. I expect to be scolded, ridiculed, scorned and rejected.

Of course, you don’t want to go back for another dose and I would be more concerned if were than that you are not.

needgodsgrace:

But I appreciate everyone’s insights

And getting them through forums like this rather than in person can have advantages. You can read views and digest them in your own time and ponder your reaction.

Just keep in mind that you may need to take care of yourself as you do this as some posters may (accidently or intentionally) display some of the characteristics you do not appreciate. But you will get to know who they are and then you can decide if it is a good time for you to read their posts, whenether you will come back and read them later or ignore them.

Sometimes I react to people who consider they know all my (and other posters views) from one or two posts and in my view bash me/them for them.

needgodsgrace:

I just don’t know where to begin in my spiritual journey today.

Do you have a spiritual director, someone who can walk with you on your journey and also help you deal with your anger and feelings of rejection. You would need to find someone who is qualified to do this and does not have a particular end for you in view. Also it needs to be someone you respect and you know will respect you. The last thing you need is another dose of that you have received in the past.

If you look on some other threads you will find some posts that deal with finding the best spiritual director for YOU. Someone who is great for someone might not be the director for you.

Best wishes on the next leg of your spiritual journey.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I don’t think it’s necessarily a tangent. Perhaps those who leave the Catholic Church to face East do so because they perceive the reasons for faith found within Orthodoxy to be superior to those relied upon by Catholics?

Hypothetically,
Mick

I would naturally assume so, but I’m not always the best indicator of others I find. I wouldn’t change to a different faith community unless I found that another was in my opinion better theologically and exegetically based. I visited a number of other Christian churches in my attempt to find what I thought was sound. I assume others do the same. But I cannot deny that some here have admitted to other reasons. I think marriage and going along with a more serious spouse may account for some, but those may well be people who have little strong interest at the moment intheir faith journey.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

SpiritMeadow: There are instances of double papacies. Were both right?

JL: There has never been double papacies, just confusion of which was the true pope

No doubt I said that inelegantly. What I meant was that two different men both claimed the Chair of St. Peter. I’m not sure it was confusion so much as different factions, each claiming the right of election? Or have I gotten something wrong?

 

[jean8]

Do you think people generally leave Catholicism for reasons of conscience or simply because they aren’t much interested in spiritual matters of any kind?

Curiously,
Mick

mick,
This is a good question.
I think they leave because they don’t understand what the Church is all about. After reading some of the responses given here it proves my point. There are some that are very knowledgeable about the doctrine of the RCC. Thank goodness for that.

God bless
jean8

 

[Salonika]

Peter J:

Conversely, just knowing that you’re a “liberal ex-Catholic” gives me a pretty good idea what you’re going say about the reasons people leave the Church.

Curious how some people consider that they know all your views from one or two comments you make, especially if they “bash” you for them. This cuts down dialogue and ultimately any communication.

If I went back over replies to my posts I am sure I would come up with an interesting list of what it is been alleged I believe, some of which are correct, some wrong and some down the middle.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I was in a bad mood and felt that here once again Conservative Catholics were disparaged once again so I lashed out (which I was appoligizing for) against liberal Catholics whom I said believed that Homosexuality was ok. I was jumped on (probably justly so) for assuming that Liberal Catholics thought this. My mother is a very liberal catholic so I was using her beliefs as a model. She also believes being Budhist is ok and it really doesn’t matter what you believe if your a relatively good person. That was the context.

BTW in the ancient world Homosexuality weren’t only of a violent nature. Again homosexuality was more accepted in the ancient world than it is today. There are all sorts of ancient literature to that affect.

No apology required. I imagine your mother and I would get along famously!

I agree that homosexuality was more common in certain circumstances in classic Greece and Rome. However no one today would agree with the abuse of children, and no matter the platonic definition, we don’t give children the right of consent to sexual acts by adults upon them. That is violence.

As the the other two main types of Paul’s day, they were temple prostitution by young males who feminized themselves for sale. This was thought to be a violation of the stoic concept of natural law, wherein men were by definition superior to women and it was unseemly to act like a woman. Secondly, the call-boy took the submissive position and this too was thought “feminine” and thus unnatural.

If you read Paul, you will see that he refers to unbridled lust a lot. It was thought that homosexual behavior was a choice, not an inborn condition or predisposition. It was thought that some men and even some women were so overcome by lust that they were not satisfied with the “normal” behavior of male and female, but had succumbed to their bodily desires. Since at that time in Christianity, as in Stoicism, the denial of bodily desire was considered virtuous, Paul argued against it. But remember his remarks were limited, and included in a long variety of behaviors that were not sinful themselves but evidence that the person had succumbed to sin in general. These “codes” were common in both the Old and New Testament, and they are nowhere ever the same. There is no One list.

But I think you are right that the human body was not a thing to be covered in the way that we think today. The Olympic games I believe were conducted by nude athletes. And the baths were common, though I think usually restricted to each sex. Not having the modern facilities we do today means that people looked a bit differently at nudity and so forth, not necessarily more pruriently either. You learned to see but not see if you get my drift.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Actually, it’s important to Catholics and Orthodox alike. (We claim to be the one true Church; they claim to be the one true Church.)

The Anglican way of looking at it is a little different since they believe in (a form of) Branch Theory.

Thanks Peter, I’ll take your word for it. I haven’t yet spend much time reading Anglican church history. I’ve read a bit, but have a church library with several volumes on the subject.

 

[Salonika]

jean8:

I think they leave because they don’t understand what the Church is all about. After reading some of the responses given here it proves my point. There are some that are very knowledgeable about the doctrine of the RCC. Thank goodness for that.

Think it is a wrong assumption to believe that if someone understands what the Catholic Church is about and is knowledgeable about its doctrine they will not leave.

Sometimes they will just be more knowledgeable about why they are leaving.

 

[IrishJoe]

Painting with broad brushstrokes, I find many leave over a teaching of the Church which they personally want to engage in-- most commonly the Church’s teaching on divorce & remarriage and contraception as well as other sexual sins.

Its a broad stroke alright and one I find is often (judgementally) levied against people who dissent although often they have other reasons for doing so.

And if people leave who’ fault is it ? The churchs for not teaching ? Catholics for giving bad examples ?

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;4854790:

I don’t think it’s necessarily a tangent. Perhaps those who leave the Catholic Church to face East do so because they perceive the reasons for faith found within Orthodoxy to be superior to those relied upon by Catholics?

Hypothetically,
Mick
:thumbsup:Yes. And vice versa.

You’re undoubtedly right.

Panoramically,
Mick

 

[mary_bobo]

There are as many answers as there are people.

Painting with broad brushstrokes, I find *many *leave over a teaching of the Church which they personally want to engage in-- most commonly the Church’s teaching on divorce & remarriage and contraception as well as other sexual sins.

Someone in a discussion group that I attend at my church once put it very succintly–people leave so they can live the way they want and hopefully not feel guilty about it. I think this says a lot.