Why do people leave the Catholic Church?

[sambos671]

I assume this is some perverse attempt on your part to be rude? If not I am missing your point completely. I was in the RCC for many years, and had in fact been accepted into the Dominican order at one point. Did you misunderstand something?

How could you be recieving Dominican Orders if you’re married?

The reasons you mentioned for leaving the Church strikes me as interesting until the end I became angry. The part where you said its easy to be a conservative Catholic just follow everything your told. To insinuate that conservative Catholics are nothing more than robots not thinking for themselves. I find it offensive. When I could say the same about liberal Catholics. They believe what ever the media tells them such as Homosexuality is ok and God doesn’t really find fault with it. Or that Women and Men being equal means that they are the same thing. When they are biologically not the same. That sex is inevitable among young people so its ok as long as they use contraception. Or that having children is wrong and not under the precepts of God. Liberal Catholics just follow the world and its teaching. Not Christ’s. The bible is very clear about certain issues but many just don’t want to see it because it offends their sensibilities. So who is robotic? Conservatives or Liberals? I’ve traveled the world. I speak several languages. I’ve a graduate education. I think. I teach my kids to think. To make quantitative decisions. To assume just because someone is conservative means they blindly follow someone is absurd.
Now that I got that off my chest. I find that your statement was rude. Your doctinal beliefs are not so much that as your social beliefs. God is love but not to the exclusion of permissiveness. God is also Justice and Judgement. Beware taking him lightly.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

That seems like a bit of an exaggeration, but I did find mercygate’s statement to be odd and a little presumptuous.

BTW, SpiritMeadow, I liked your post but #5 struck me as strange, since I think this sort of thing is as common (or more common) in Protestantism than it is in Catholicism:

I can only relate the experience. My friend and her husband had converted to Catholicism and were most happy. Their priest was transferred. He had been liberal and they had had many private chats and he assured them that they were able to disagree with the Church on the issues in question. The new priest announced that everyone must believe every word of the CCC and if they couldn’t, they should not come forward for communion until they could.

I am very imvolved in my church, preparing for several ministries. My husband is well known to the local towns around where we live. He grew up here, everyone knows everyone. All it would take is one person to quesiton my right to communion, and I would put my family in a unseemly situation. I just couldnt’ deal with something like this happening. Still I did nothing for a long time, and figured I’d go to a larger parish church in the city. But increasingly, I decided the hypocrisy was bigger and bigger. I no longer in good conscience agreed with the church on serious issues. The exegetical stuff never bothered me, although I knew the truth on many biblical things–taught again by Catholics. But this just all seemed too much. And as I said, I was presented with a new church I knew next to nothing about. What I found was perfect for me, maintaining the liturgy and ritual I loved, yet not imposing all the doctrinal predicaments that I was struggling with.

I thought the forum question was serious, and I replied seriously. As usual, some Catholics just have to slap you around because its Friday or something. I’ve grown used to the abuse. Its common here.

 

[Peter_J]

The new priest announced that everyone must believe every word of the CCC and if they couldn’t, they should not come forward for communion until they could.

Ah, I think I understand better now. The issue with this conservative priest you speak of isn’t the fact that he’s conservative (nothing wrong with that, you know) but rather the fact that he’s a self-styled pope.

 

[Peter_J]

I thought the forum question was serious, and I replied seriously. As usual, some Catholics just have to slap you around because its Friday or something. I’ve grown used to the abuse. Its common here.

I think the thread question was, in fact, serious. The OP can’t really control what happens on the thread.

 

[Salonika]

SpiritMeadow, Thank you very much for your post - I found it very moving and can identify with a number of your reasons for those were my reaons for leaving another Christian Church. For me finally the number of differences between what I believed and the church’s doctrine became too wide.

For me leaving was also precipated by a change of Minister from one who encouraged parishioners to think for themselves to one who did not. (I have no problems with people having other ideas as long as they are thought out and they do not ram them down my throat),

Also identify with your feeling of hypocrisy of remaining and yes, we only have so much energy and we have to decide the best use for it.

Agree, and know, that being a liberal in a conservative organisation is difficult, whether it is a church or not. Liberals are usually the ones who have to justify their being there - conservatives have automatic membership.

I am pleased you have found a place that works for you intellectually, spiritually and ritually.

 

[Salonika]

sambos671:

To insinuate that conservative Catholics are nothing more than robots not thinking for themselves. I find it offensive. When I could say the same about liberal Catholics. They believe what ever the media tells them such as Homosexuality is ok and God doesn’t really find fault with it. Or that Women and Men being equal means that they are the same thing. When they are biologically not the same. That sex is inevitable among young people so its ok as long as they use contraception. Or that having children is wrong and not under the precepts of God. Liberal Catholics just follow the world and its teaching.

Sambos think your post makes it very clear why liberals, in this case Liberal Catholics, find it difficult to be/remain in the Church. Assumptions are made about what we believe even when we make it clear from our behaviour and words that we do not.

It is only for so long that most people can take continually being told that they are misrepresenting their views. It ain’t pleasant to be continually told, or have it implied, that you are a liar and/or that someone has brainwashed you.

No wonder so many of us leave in the end.

 

[Salonika]

SpiritMeadow:

I thought the forum question was serious, and I replied seriously. As usual, some Catholics just have to slap you around because its Friday or something. I’ve grown used to the abuse. Its common here.

I still make this mistake sometimes, too. I think what is wanted is an open discussion but I find it isn’t and only certain views are acceptable.

I now stay away from some forums and some threads within forums because they may degenerate into name calling and abuse. On the other hand on some threads and forums, often those when people ask for advice with personal situations, there are very charitable and caring responses.

We all need to remember it’s not just what we say that’s important it’s how we say it.

 

[sambos671]

Sambos think your post makes it very clear why liberals, in this case Liberal Catholics, find it difficult to be/remain in the Church. Assumptions are made about what we believe even when we make it clear from our behaviour and words that we do not.

It is only for so long that most people can take continually being told that they are misrepresenting their views. It ain’t pleasant to be continually told, or have it implied, that you are a liar and/or that someone has brainwashed you.

No wonder so many of us leave in the end.

What can I say? I was offended by the assumption that don’t think for myself. Which all I did was turn the tables and make the same assumption the otherway round. See it doesn’t feel so nice when it happens back to you.
I’m under the opinion that you and the person to which I replied feel you can make all sorts of assertions about myself and other people who hold to my views without impunity. However, I’m the bad guy when I do the same thing back. I was making a point. Which is it goes both ways. My problem with the chruch and the reason I left was because of the people who “gave only lip service” to Jesus and the faith but lived horrible lives. I returned because I found it taught the truth. Which is the real reason people leave. You either believe it teaches the truth or it doesn’t. Simple and plain. Don’t push social agendas on the Church. If you think the church doesn’t teach truth then leave but be honest you’re leaving because you think the church is lieing. But if it teaches the truth then why play church? Live the church and your faith.

 

[SSTeacher]

We all need to remember it’s not just what we say that’s important it’s how we say it.

Salonika,

I wholeheartedly agree. And perhaps we ought to be even more cautious about what we write in our posts because it stays on the record.

Mindfully,
Mick

 

[agent_grey]

1 answer to your question. and ONLY one.

The Pope!

Sedevacantist or protestant… etc.

You either believe the pope in question holds the office he claims to hold or you don’t. No other reason aside from specific desire to serve the devil.

Every other reason one might give is smoke and mirrors. If the office of Pope in question isn’t the rock it claims to be than the Roman Catholic religion as taught by the pope in question and magesterium in question is a lie and therefore morally disgusting.

OR the office of Pope in question is the rock the church is built upon and each and every other religion on the face of the planet not built upon this rock is morally disgusting.

There is absolutely no comprimise between the 2 answers to this question. Darkness and Light ABSOLUTELY do not mix.

 

[RobHom]

Sambos think your post makes it very clear why liberals, in this case Liberal Catholics, find it difficult to be/remain in the Church. Assumptions are made about what we believe even when we make it clear from our behaviour and words that we do not.

It is only for so long that most people can take continually being told that they are misrepresenting their views. It ain’t pleasant to be continually told, or have it implied, that you are a liar and/or that someone has brainwashed you.

No wonder so many of us leave in the end.

I am sad to hear that… I am one of those people who some might be seen as a little bit “liberal”…but yet I am much more “conservative” than most people I know.

But frankly, I have never been very inclined to worry about the opinions or judgments of other people… nor have I ever worried about the “assumptions” that others make… I don’t discuss my beliefs or politics with people, other than possibly here, so people around me are left “wondering”.

People are people, and if you put two or more in the middle of a parking lot on a clear sunny day, and ask them to tell you what the color of the sky is…you have a 50% or better chance of them debating or even arguing about what shade of “blue” the sky is… Take them out of the parking lot, and put them in a church…and what do you expect to happen?

So, my advice to people…is “Don’t sweat the small stuff”… Instead…concentrate on whats “important”.

 

[SSTeacher]

Mick,

I have read through all the posts, or at least the majority of them in this thread… And as many posters have said…there are many reasons.

I am a “revert”…and here is why I left:

I was 17, I was a soldier in Basic Combat Training at Fort Benning in the fall of 1967. I would be turning 18 soon after receiving my advanced training, and I knew without much doubt that I would receive orders for Viet Nam as had 123 of the 127 of the troops in my company. 123 men already knew that they were going to Viet Nam…most as infantrymen (11B10’s). I was different…too young to go, and I had enlisted for a special school.

But when I was in basic…just before graduation…all of us Catholics were called out of formation for a meeting with a Catholic Chaplain…a rather young fellow, who gave us a “pep” talk…and the summary of that talk was: You are going to have to kill the enemy, but its OK, because God is on our side!

Now, having been raised as a Catholic, in the family of an Army Officer, a Veteran of two wars and a Ranger…I was still brought up to believe God’s Word and that violence and killing was not always the answer, in fact that it seldom was, and that only in a “just war” is it allowable. So even though I joined the Army, I had some moral qualms about killing, many in fact, I knew that I could not be a CO, … But the fact that a Catholic Priest told me that “God was on our side”!…caused me even greater problems because I knew that the demographics of Viet Nam contained a rather sizable number of Catholics and some other Christians…so I knew further that I took much risk in killing a fellow Catholic or Christian who had been “impressed” into the service of the VC or even NVA…under dire threats of death to him or her and their family…which was a real problem.

God did not inform the US that He was on their side, and I considered the statement more than ambiguous.

While I fell away from attendance at Mass and had little or nothing to do with religion at all for some years, I still did my duty according to the oath that I took, and served two and a half tours in Viet Nam… But in all that time… I never gave up my core values, and I held to my faith…I guess I just went on a hiatus.

After I came back to the world, I continued my hiatus, though I had been invited to weddings and such at other churches which I attended…and was invited to join other churches, I never did. Why? I never felt “comfortable” in them despite the friendliness of the people, though on few occasions I had been asked what “religion” I was…and when I mentioned the word “Catholic” there were a few people who treated me like a “leper”. Not that it bothered me…it really didn’t…

But… I eventually returned to the Church a number of years ago, once I had reconciled a few of my issues…and it is in the Catholic Church that I belong and will stay.

My point is that we as “mankind” have many different reasons for the things that we do…some of theological or spiritual differences, and perhaps some like me out of a temporary dis-allusion. Remember…I was 17, and not yet grown up…but yet I took an oath to obey orders, defend my Constitution and Nation…and that included killing my fellow man on the field of battle…

I can only hope, and pray, that others who have fallen away will find the path back to the Church as I did…though I know it was not my doing alone…The Holy Spirit led me, and my wife, a good Catholic woman…reinforced the message

Hi Rob,

Thanks for choosing to personalize the question and being courageous enough to tell your story, warts and all. I thoroughly enjoyed reading what you wrote.

Train a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not turn from it, so the proverb goes and I daresay you’d avow that it applies in your case. The fact that you never relinquished your core values suggests a powerful and consistent spiritual formation because it’s clear that those values had taken root deeply within you.

I’m glad that by the grace of God you were able to reconcile the issues you had and then return to the Catholic Church. The Parable of the Prodigal Son applies to so many of us, I’m thinking.

Thoughtfully,
Mick

 

[RobHom]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for choosing to personalize the question and being courageous enough to tell your story, warts and all. I thoroughly enjoyed reading what you wrote.

Train a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not turn from it, so the proverb goes and I daresay you’d avow that it applies in your case. The fact that you never relinquished your core values suggests a powerful and consistent spiritual formation because it’s clear that those values had taken root deeply within you.

I’m glad that by the grace of God you were able to reconcile the issues you had and then return to the Catholic Church. The Parable of the Prodigal Son applies to so many of us, I’m thinking.

Thoughtfully,
Mick

Mick, Thanks… I consider myself very fortunate…

 

[Salonika]

sambos:

What can I say? I was offended by the assumption that don’t think for myself. Which all I did was turn the tables and make the same assumption the otherway round. See it doesn’t feel so nice when it happens back to you.

What I find strange, and offensive, is that because I identify myself as liberal you consider that you know all my views on everything. In particular, that liberals “believe what ever the media tells them such as Homosexuality is ok and God doesn’t really find fault with it. Or that Women and Men being equal means that they are the same thing. When they are biologically not the same. That sex is inevitable among young people so its ok as long as they use contraception. Or that having children is wrong and not under the precepts of God. Liberal Catholics just follow the world and its teaching. Not Christ’s.”
sambos:

I’m under the opinion that you and the person to which I replied feel you can make all sorts of assertions about myself and other people who hold to my views without impunity.

Can only speak for myself - we liberals are actually individuals with different views.

My basic comment was “assumptions are made about what we believe even when we make it clear from our behaviour and words that we do not.” I did not give a list of the views I thought you would hold because you hold more traditional views.

Anyway I am often more interested in why people hold the views they do - sometimes I have found that people with very different views actually start from the same premise.
sambos:

You either believe it (the Church) teaches the truth or it doesn’t. Simple and plain. Don’t push social agendas on the Church. If you think the church doesn’t teach truth then leave but be honest you’re leaving because you think the church is lieing.

I left because the gap between what I believed and what the church taught was too great. (And this was not in relation to social agendas but to basic theology.)

I do believe that social issues need to be discussed and worked through by Churches. Shouldn’t they have a view and do things to reduce poverty and disadvantage?

How can I be honest about leaving because I thought the Church was lieing because that is not what I think. To me lieing in this context would be the Church deliberately and knowingly teaching things that it knows is wrong. I make NO claim in this regard.

 

[Salonika]

RobHom:

But frankly, I have never been very inclined to worry about the opinions or judgments of other people… nor have I ever worried about the “assumptions” that others make… I don’t discuss my beliefs or politics with people, other than possibly here, so people around me are left “wondering”.

RobHom:

So, my advice to people…is “Don’t sweat the small stuff”… Instead…concentrate on whats “important”.

Thanks for the reminder! Think I am from personality and upbringing more suspectible than most to people’s judgements of me and my views.

Also think I suffer a bit from literalism - I take what people say to be what they mean and sometimes play it out to its logical conclusion. Sometimes its fun and amusing and does no harm but on some occasions …

 

[wanner47]

I think as many have said that there are as many reasons as there are people.

I left for the following reasons:

1. I could not justify the Church’s handling of the child abuse issue and it never seems to end. There are constantly new revelations, which suggests the Church is still trying to hide from the issue.
2. I disagreed doctrinarily on the issue of women’s ordination, and homosexuality. I find neither dogmas persuasive and I think they are in opposition to good biblical exegesis and other historical evidence.
3. I don’t agree with the church on contraception. This issue never touched me personally. Nor did #2.
4. I found out well after the fact that my marriage was considered non-sacramental, and could not be corrected except by my husband getting an annulment. He was not Catholic and not married to a Catholic, so I feel the church has no place in this. The church in effect walked away from me.
5. I might still have remained but for a friend who told me of their parish changing priests and that all they had been taught and so forth was now considered wrong by the ultra conservative priest who was sent as replacement. I thought investing my time and energy only to be “uncovered” not worth it. And the hypocrisy of remaining began to gnaw at me. I fully respect a number of liberal Catholics who remain and fight the good fight to change the church from within, but i had not the strength for that fight myself.
   6. Most of the ex-Catholics I know left for doctrinal reasons, but usually not because they wanted to do something the church said they couldn’t. As most know, most catholics do as they wish anyway. Check out th numbers who use contraception for instance.
   7. Being a liberal catholic is hard. Being a conservative Catholic is easy–you just have to ask what the church tells you to believe. I got tired of fighting, even though in most parishes what goes on here would be shocking to them. The ultra conservative Catholic is a rarety in most parishes from my experience.
6. I found some place that worked for me intellectually and spiritually and ritually. Perhaps had I not found it, I might not have left.

I posted this earlier in the thread, but I think it’s worth posting again.

The Catholic Church is Not Wal-Mart

 

[SSTeacher]

I offer a quote that I believe is from Fulton Sheen. Most people don’t leave the Catholic Church. They leave what THEY THINK is the Catholic Church.

Interesting observation. How could he be certain that he’d correctly divined what so many people might have been thinking?

Hypothetically,
Mick

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Interesting observation. How could he be certain that he’d correctly divined what so many people might have been thinking?

Hypothetically,
Mick

If it is the quote I am thinking of it is from Bishop Fulton Sheen however the quote goes:

“There are not 100 people who hate the Catholic Church; But there are millions who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be - which is, of course, quite a different thing.”

Not really about conversion.

God bless

 

[mark_a]

Moral depravity?? Do you care to clarify your statement here?

Abortion, homosexual marriage, contraception, all the usual stuff.

I never personally try to help anyone out of the Catholic church. They can do that on their own if they wish. I think your statements are obvious generalizations that have no foundation.

You obviously are not familiar with Bob Jones country.

I don’t see my church as having demons. GOD led me to this church so you may want to re-consider calling GOD a demon.

Dude!! That’s denoms, as in denominations abreviated!

 

[SSTeacher]

If it is the quote I am thinking of it is from Bishop Fulton Sheen however the quote goes:

“There are not 100 people who hate the Catholic Church; But there are millions who hate what they believe the Catholic Church to be - which is, of course, quite a different thing.”

Not really about conversion.

God bless

Thanks for correcting me. I don’t think there’s any doubt that the Catholic Church is hated. And whatever the degree and extent of that hatred it’s sad that some it emanates from non–Catholic Christians.

Disappointedly,
Mick
:sad_bye: