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SpiritMeadow
Guest
I have responded to the Matthew verses. I believe Jesus referred to celibacy as a calling. Paul as I said made no issue of one being better than the other. He did counsel that those in the married state should remain so, and the same for the single state, because the time was so short he believed.
Revelations is a text that is often misunderstood and misused I find. It is complex and filled with symbolism. It is unfortunate that it has been misused by some Protestants to attack unfairly the RCC.
And I agree whole heartedly that we are most fortunate to have the catholic church, the body of Christ to keep us all in truth.
Thanks for replying!
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SpiritMeadow
Guest
But his point is extraordinarily valid. Why would Jesus choose Peter to lead the movement if he was so weak as to not be able to abide by celibacy? To start claiming that there is something inherently better about singleness and celibacy is dangerous and not at all what the RCC teaches I don’t believe. You by your own claims would have Jesus selecting a married man to be the first Pope of the Church you claim is your’s alone!
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fabricdragon
Guest
These are the reasons i have gotten from the people i have met and spoken with who have left the Catholic church…
bad behavior or teachings (usually not in keeping with church doctrine) by church leaders. an example is the local priest telling my mother in law that her children couldnt be enrolled in the local Catholic school because their last name wasnt Italian… A lot of these folks end up Atheist or Agnostic, but can end up in another religion/church if they dont see that behavior there.
Lack of proper education about the Catholic Church . This is so common it HURTS. i cant count how many people i met who were “born Catholic” who didnt know the Rosary was supposed to be a teaching/meditation tool about events in the Bible! they had never heard what the Mysteries were… so were just vaguely familiar with repeating prayers. and thats IT. these people are very subject to the “Catholics really dont…” and “catholics are wrong because” type arguments of the various Evangelical and etc churches.
Lack of any connection with the religion on a deeper level. this usually goes with a lack of education about the faith… but can often also happen with some of those churches trying so hard to be “hip” that they lose people. These are usually the people who dont really understand the meanings of various parts of the Mass, and never felt connected with the community of the faithful… these folks are most prone to be attracted to smaller, more emotionally “ecstatic” forms of worship. whether Pentacostalism or Paganism.
Racism, Sexism or other issues with the church they were raised in. This really goes back to the first issue, but can also be the problem of being in a conservative community… or family also (it doesnt have to be the leaders fault) if the “catholics” you know are (or are perceived to be) hostile to you or your friends… well obviously you wont feel comfortable there.
bad behavior or teachings (usually not in keeping with church doctrine) by church leaders. an example is the local priest telling my mother in law that her children couldnt be enrolled in the local Catholic school because their last name wasnt Italian… A lot of these folks end up Atheist or Agnostic, but can end up in another religion/church if they dont see that behavior there.
Lack of proper education about the Catholic Church . This is so common it HURTS. i cant count how many people i met who were “born Catholic” who didnt know the Rosary was supposed to be a teaching/meditation tool about events in the Bible! they had never heard what the Mysteries were… so were just vaguely familiar with repeating prayers. and thats IT. these people are very subject to the “Catholics really dont…” and “catholics are wrong because” type arguments of the various Evangelical and etc churches.
Lack of any connection with the religion on a deeper level. this usually goes with a lack of education about the faith… but can often also happen with some of those churches trying so hard to be “hip” that they lose people. These are usually the people who dont really understand the meanings of various parts of the Mass, and never felt connected with the community of the faithful… these folks are most prone to be attracted to smaller, more emotionally “ecstatic” forms of worship. whether Pentacostalism or Paganism.
Racism, Sexism or other issues with the church they were raised in. This really goes back to the first issue, but can also be the problem of being in a conservative community… or family also (it doesnt have to be the leaders fault) if the “catholics” you know are (or are perceived to be) hostile to you or your friends… well obviously you wont feel comfortable there.
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rinnie
Guest
If I may let me nip this graven images in the bud right here and now,
A graven image is a image of a false God. Is a statue of Jesus Christ a false God? An image of the Blessed Mother is a statue of Mary the Mother of God, is the Mother of God a false image?
If you condem the RCC for having a statue of Jesus Christ and say we are worshiping a false God, then you are saying Jesus Christ is a false God, Jesus Christ came to this world as an image if a man. Thats what us seen on the cross.
A graven image is a image of a false God. Is a statue of Jesus Christ a false God? An image of the Blessed Mother is a statue of Mary the Mother of God, is the Mother of God a false image?
If you condem the RCC for having a statue of Jesus Christ and say we are worshiping a false God, then you are saying Jesus Christ is a false God, Jesus Christ came to this world as an image if a man. Thats what us seen on the cross.
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rinnie
Guest
Show me in the bible where it says Peter’s wife was alive. No one ever said Peter was not married. But at the time of Jesus he was a widow. If his wife was alive why was she not mentioned when Jesus entered Peters house and cured the Mother in law. Because she was already dead. Thats why,
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rinnie
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See you accuse the Church of these things but cannot show proof. Please show me proof. DO you realize what you are doing when you persecute the RCC. Please read Saul, it will tell you.
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rinnie
Guest
Jesus also said you can only serve one Master. That is why it is better to not take a wife.
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mario_grgic
Guest
No, I don’t perceive it that way at all. It is actually saying that it is a calling and obviously not that everyone should be celibate. Being catholic priest is a calling.
Sometimes I really wonder about the average IQ of the posters here. It is really silly discussing things here with people who have not invested time in their own education. Maybe it’s my math education coming through. But when people fail basic logic, it irritates me to bits.
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SpiritMeadow
Guest
I don’t agree that it is better. If that is so, then we all should aim to be single and celibate and thus violate the Catholic belief that we are to “go forth and multiple” which is the reason that Catholics aren’t supposed to use contraception. Course most do, but that is another question entirely.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
whatever you say.
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emeraldcoast
Guest
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sonatalily
Guest
I left the church because, after a lot of consideration:
- I couldn’t get over the OT idea that God is One and the way that differs from the NT idea that God is three.
- I feel that only God can forgive our sins and that we don’t need an intermediary (i.e. Jesus or a confessor)
3)I find it impossible to believe in transubstantiation.
4)I believe in sterilization as birth control.
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michaelcollins
Guest
When I see this post i see a post that violates forum rules and a poster who needs to be reminded that this site is a catholic forum. The majority of posters are catholics and blatant insults to our faith even when mistaken such as your acussing us of idol worship wouls normally cause me to ask for the moderator to step in. However, a catholic friend of mine has just been benned for I believe the wrong reasons when he was standing up for his principals and they were against a position where catholics can disagree.
The result is I am asking you to be a little more couteous to those of us you believe to be pagans or heritics or find a Baptist site where you can call us any name you wish to your hearts content.
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rinnie
Guest
Let me quote this to you, then you can argue all you want.
l corinthians 7:32 The unmarried man give his mind to the Lords affairs and to how he can please the Lord, but THE
man who is married gives his mind to the affairs of this world and to how he can please his wife, and he is DIVIDED IN MIND.
Now those are the words of our Lord. Who is a man going to serve Man or God. The Lord said if hes serves both he is divided in mind. Did he not? Now what does that say to you? If a husband is married is he not serving his wife also. But if a Man is not married is he not just serving our Lord? You tell Me?
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rinnie
Guest
No, you are not correct. NOT ALL ARE CALLED. If you are called to be a Priest it is a calling that comes from God and God only. God chooses you for this calling. We don’t aim for this, The bible does not say we should aim for this, the bible said it is a calling from Christ.
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michaelcollins
Guest
Frankly, the rules require charity but to be honest saying that a protestant belief is heresy does not violate the forum rules because this is a Catholic forum. If I were at an evangelical forum and stated that my beliefs was the true church was the cathlic church I might get away with that but to go further and say that all protestant faiths are any protestant beliefs are heresy would probably gt me banned while a protestant saying the catholic church is the whore of Babylon (which some protestants teach, and for some reason that teaching really amuses me, I guess because it to me is so false, Off topic as an aside while I am off topic, I was raised an evangelical Baptist and my parents still belong to that church, they are horrified about my beliefs and the fact I am catholic, I grew up and began to have two problems, one I prayed so hard I stayed up all night some nights, for faith and belief, it never came, I also began to just dispise the God of the Baptist church, I finnally decided I was agnostic but it did not matter because if God was like the Baptist discribed him I wasnt interestd anyway. I began to got to mass with my catholic wife, with no imput from her but woke up one day and had faith, God had granted me what I had prayed for all those years ago with no deserving on my part(of course there nerver is) but through the church God provided and I converted and have been a lector, been in charge of the RCIA progrsam and love the RCC), yesterday one of my sons and I who live during the week with my parents went to mass and obviously got ashes, my parents had this big frown on their faces when we came in, did not like the ashes in their home. I exagerate to make the point but you get the drift I presume). The point is, yes we can say that protestant beliefs are heresy no you cant say the same thing because it is a catholic forum. we need to say it with charity but all the same it is(the forum) here for catholic answers not for protestants to convert the pagan/heathen catholics.
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Ronald_E
Guest
I guess Paul had a difficult relationship that he had not worked out sufficienty.
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Hisalone
Guest
So you dont want honest discourse?
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SSTeacher
Guest
Hisalone,SSTeacher;4864936:
Hello SST,Thanks for that answer.
Would you mind revealing the point in your spiritual development that you came to the view that you could never hold tradition as more important than Scripture and perhaps briefly detail the influences that led you to it?
Inquiringly,
Mick
I was a practicing Catholic who had recently been baptised in the Holy Spirit who was struggling with a besetting sin. I had a hunger and thirst for the things of God and began reading the bible fevorishly and all things concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I found in the bible things contrary to what are/were Catholic teachings (indulgences, graven images, celibate priesthood etc)
I also found the best and most comprehensive teaching on the Holy Spirit to be NonCatholic sources. These influences led me out of the Catholic Church.
I hadn’t given thought to the possibility that your response would result in you being attacked for what you have come to believe but I’m grateful that you provided a clear and definitive answer. I wish you well on your faith journey.
Peaceably,
Mick
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