Why Do People Leave The Catholic Church?

[gelsbern]

Curious:

what’s modernism?

I’ll let you read what Pope Pius X wrote about it

cathinsight.com/apologetics/piusmod.htm

and more on modernism here

dissent/defnmdrn.htm

and there are many other resources. Just do a Google search of the words catholicism and modernism, but be careful and check out the sites where you find the articles at there are some real nut cases out there.

 

[gelsbern]

Curious:

what’s modernism?

Wikipedia Article on Modernism

 

[catsrus]

originally posted by Bat-Ami

I am now a Jew in the Conservative movement of Judaism. I know former Sisters, Nuns, Priests who are also now Jewish.

Do I understand correctly that you and your former sister, nun, and priest aquaintances now deny the divinity of Christ and also deny that he is the Messiah?

 

[BibleReader]

To say that people don’t know the Catholic faith is being a bit harsh. I know people who knew Catholicism in a great way( former sisters, Nuns, Priests ) and they are no longer Catholics. Not everyone left for freedom to divorce, take birth control, to marry among other things.

Many left because their souls wanted to find its true home. That was one of the reasons that I left. I am now a Jew in the Conservative movement of Judaism. I know former Sisters, Nuns, Priests who are also now Jewish. You really have to be careful of how you answer and view that question. People do not leave for stupid or simple reasons. I wasn’t marrying a Jewish man. I became a Jew because I found that Judaism was where my soul was at home and it has been the greatest comfort/learning imaginable. I love learning about all aspects of Judaism. I have no problems with keeping kosher( which fosters holiness) or any other aspects of Judaism. I run into former Catholics who are now Jews quite often. I also know some who are now Muslims.

People leave for many reasons. Catholicism nor did Christianity satisfied or helped me to be a better person or to know G-D. But that is me. I can’t speak for others.

Sincerely,
Bat-Ami

If one knows one’s Hebrew Bible, it is irrational to leave Christianity to become Jewish, because of the extent to which the Hebrew Bible is Chistian, and foreshadows Catholic Christianity.

 

[wcknight]

gelsbern:

They want a religion that shows reverence to God.
They want a religion that where they can feel the presence of God
They want a religion that makes them feel God’s grace.
They want a religion that doesn’t suffer from changes due to the “changing times” or the whims of of a parish, or bishop.
They want a religion where they are fed spiritually.
They want a religion where their church feels like a truly holy place.
They want a religion where they can trust those spiritual leaders set above them,. even with their children.
They want a religion where the spiritual leaders are not usurped by over enthusiastic members of the laity.

Unfortunately most of this has been lost in the modernist catholic churches and so since they are no longer being fed spiritually and they end up looking for what they are missing in the church. Remove the modernism, bring back the reverence and you will rebuild the church.

.

Strange, I find all of those feelings in the Catholic Church and very few of those things outside the Chruch.

wc

 

[wcknight]

aixia:

The reason why I left was quite simple. A priest with a personal agenda that had nothing to do with Catholicism. This priest asked for honest feedback about the confirmation program from students, and when he got it, he refused to confirm my sister. Then when he discovered that my mother was leaving the Church over this, he told my sister that he would only confirm her if she could make her mother come back to church. My entire family left immediately. We attended a different parish in town for a while, but left for good shortly before my own confirmation.

I’m fully aware that priests are only human and they are just as sinful as anyone else, but when you place your trust in someone who stomps all over you, it is very difficult to forgive. Priests do have incredible power within their parish, and not all use that power to help their people.

Now, I will say that my sister returned to the Church only a short time after all this happened, and I returned myself this year (13 or so years after this incident). It’s been a rough road coming back, but it’s getting easier.

Just remember that not everyone leaves because Catholicism is too hard, some of us leave because of Catholics.

Yes, unfortuanately not all priests are Christ-like. And not all Catholics act with Christian charity and kindness. One of my kids reason for leaving the Church was how she or her friends were treated in grade school (there were other reasons as well). Some of the lay teachers were not especially kind or charitable.

Kids (and adults) will rebell against authority, especially if they believe such authoity is abusive or arrogant. And in some situations these authority figures represent the Church or what is perceived as Church policy.

One of the toughest things as a parent is to watch your kids grow away from the Church. We can only pray and try to set a good example for them, and hope they return with renewed faith. They have to find the Truth for themselves. We talk and debate but the decision must come from themselves.

My latest tactic is to try to relate stories from the lives of the saints and mystics.

wc

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Quoted by Bat-Ami:

To say that people don’t know the Catholic faith is being a bit harsh. I know people who knew Catholicism in a great way( former sisters, Nuns, Priests ) and they are no longer Catholics. Not everyone left for freedom to divorce, take birth control, to marry among other things.

Many left because their souls wanted to find its true home. That was one of the reasons that I left. I am now a Jew in the Conservative movement of Judaism. I know former Sisters, Nuns, Priests who are also now Jewish. You really have to be careful of how you answer and view that question. People do not leave for stupid or simple reasons. I wasn’t marrying a Jewish man. I became a Jew because I found that Judaism was where my soul was at home and it has been the greatest comfort/learning imaginable. I love learning about all aspects of Judaism. I have no problems with keeping kosher( which fosters holiness) or any other aspects of Judaism. I run into former Catholics who are now Jews quite often. I also know some who are now Muslims.

People leave for many reasons. Catholicism nor did Christianity satisfied or helped me to be a better person or to know G-D. But that is me. I can’t speak for others.

Sincerely,
Bat-Ami

---

You are probably right that many Christians choose Judaism because they are spiritually drawn to it. However, there are also many Jews who are drawn to Christianity. In fact, on the 700 Club last night the show featured a young Jewish woman who became Christian and claims to be much better because of it. I probably would feel more comfortable in a Jewish synagogue, since it is more ancient and traditional than Catholicism, but ultimately I focus on what I believe is TRUTH rather than search for spiritual consolation. Perhaps you have found truth in Judaism, but I personally can’t disregard the fulfillment of hundreds of Old Testament prophesies by Christ.

 

[wcknight]

To say that people don’t know the Catholic faith is being a bit harsh. I know people who knew Catholicism in a great way( former sisters, Nuns, Priests ) and they are no longer Catholics. Not everyone left for freedom to divorce, take birth control, to marry among other things.

Many left because their souls wanted to find its true home. That was one of the reasons that I left. I am now a Jew in the Conservative movement of Judaism. I know former Sisters, Nuns, Priests who are also now Jewish. You really have to be careful of how you answer and view that question. People do not leave for stupid or simple reasons. I wasn’t marrying a Jewish man. I became a Jew because I found that Judaism was where my soul was at home and it has been the greatest comfort/learning imaginable. I love learning about all aspects of Judaism. I have no problems with keeping kosher( which fosters holiness) or any other aspects of Judaism. I run into former Catholics who are now Jews quite often. I also know some who are now Muslims.

People leave for many reasons. Catholicism nor did Christianity satisfied or helped me to be a better person or to know G-D. But that is me. I can’t speak for others.

Sincerely,
Bat-Ami

That’s curious, as the teachings of Jesus are ALL about becoming a better person and getting closer to God. Where as many of the teachings in the OT make God out to be feared rather than loved.

Offhand, my guess is that there are many more converts from Judaism to Catholicism and Christianity than there are the other way around. I have no way of knowing this but I would be curious to see the results of any poll that might address this question and the other question as to who is converting whom.

wc

 

[wcknight]

AND that doesn’t even say the majority is correct, if most folks want to jump off a cliff, I’m not going to be one of those following them (unless I have a darned good reason for doing so, as in maybe there is a pack of hungry lions chasing us.)

wc

 

[LSK]

My experience has been that - to paraphrase Bishop Sheen - people leave the Church because of the way they want to live and people stay in the Church because of the way they have chosen to live.

 

[gelsbern]

wcknight:

Strange, I find all of those feelings in the Catholic Church and very few of those things outside the Chruch.

wc

You are overgeneralizing, I can believe that you find these things at the parish church you attend, but unfortunately it is not found universally at all Catholic Churches. You should consider yourself blessed that you attend a parish where you can find these things.

 

[aixia]

wcknight:

Yes, unfortuanately not all priests are Christ-like. And not all Catholics act with Christian charity and kindness. One of my kids reason for leaving the Church was how she or her friends were treated in grade school (there were other reasons as well). Some of the lay teachers were not especially kind or charitable.

Kids (and adults) will rebell against authority, especially if they believe such authoity is abusive or arrogant. And in some situations these authority figures represent the Church or what is perceived as Church policy.

One of the toughest things as a parent is to watch your kids grow away from the Church. We can only pray and try to set a good example for them, and hope they return with renewed faith. They have to find the Truth for themselves. We talk and debate but the decision must come from themselves.

I completely agree that people have to find things out for themselves. My faith has meant much more to me since I returned. I’m still gun-shy of Confirmation, but I enjoy going to Mass now and I feel I understand it much better.

I should note though, my parents have still not returned to the Church, it has only been my sister and I.

Oh and to answer the poster who asked why people eventually come back after leaving, I really can’t say beyond I felt a calling to come back. I applied for a job I really wanted and decided to pray to help me to get it. I even tried bargaining with God, saying that if I got the job I’d go back to church. Well, I didn’t get the job, not even an interview, but I somehow knew I needed to go back to church anyway. So now I’m back. All I can really say is that God let me know that I needed to be there, even if I didn’t agree with everything. I considered going to a Episcopal church, but couldn’t go through with it. I’m a very proud Irish Catholic, and I just couldn’t bear the thought of being Anglican. That’s about it.

 

[otm]

gelsbern:

They want a religion that shows reverence to God.
They want a religion that where they can feel the presence of God
They want a religion that makes them feel God’s grace.
They want a religion that doesn’t suffer from changes due to the “changing times” or the whims of of a parish, or bishop.
They want a religion where they are fed spiritually.
They want a religion where their church feels like a truly holy place.
They want a religion where they can trust those spiritual leaders set above them,. even with their children.
They want a religion where the spiritual leaders are not usurped by over enthusiastic members of the laity.

Unfortunately most of this has been lost in the modernist catholic churches and so since they are no longer being fed spiritually and they end up looking for what they are missing in the church. Remove the modernism, bring back the reverence and you will rebuild the church.

.

You are quick to drag out that old shibboleth “modernism”, but that fails to answer why people were leaving the Church prior to Vatican2, and fails to answer why they are coming in in such hugh numbers to that so-called “modernist” church.

People also leave a church that they perceive as more interested in legal rules than Christian love; one that appears psychologically and spiritually cold as to one that is inviting and on fire with love of the Lord; one that is perceived as individualistic, and the person next to you is treated as a stranger as opposed to one where the person in the pew is interested both in the Lord and the person next to them.

 

[otm]

gelsbern:

You are overgeneralizing, I can believe that you find these things at the parish church you attend, but unfortunately it is not found universally at all Catholic Churches. You should consider yourself blessed that you attend a parish where you can find these things.

wcknight is no more overgeneralizing than you are. The vast majority of Catholics attend the Pauline rite Mass, the large majority hold hands during the Our Father, and of the over 171,000 people who joined the Church in 2000 as adults (and that was not an untypical year) and the more than 1,000,000 infant baptisms, almost all of them were in the Pauline rite. If things are so bad, why the numbers?

It is the two wings of the Church, the "progressives’ and the “traditionalists” who together want to paint the Church as embattled, beseiged and struggling for survivial. Meanwhile, the rest, who try to follow the Chruch faithfully, carry on with the church that is flourishing.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Why do people leave the Catholic Church? Impaired trust.

 

[gelsbern]

otm:

You are quick to drag out that old shibboleth “modernism”, but that fails to answer why people were leaving the Church prior to Vatican2, and fails to answer why they are coming in in such hugh numbers to that so-called “modernist” church.

I am working on digging up statistics for you but around the world the attendance in Catholic Churches has fallen dramatically since Vatican II.

As an example, in Australia attendance has dropped from 70% attending pre-Vatican II to 50% attending in the 70’s down to 20% range today.

ad2000.com.au/articles/1992/aug1992p2_758.html

Anyway I am trying to find unbiased statistics and it is proving difficult. I do believe however that attendance at Traditional Mass is growing, unfortunately without the data, I can’t honestly correlate it to anything specific, but the the fact that attendance to normative modern Mass is declining says something.

The huge numbers are not as huge as they used to be, and I know of several converts to Catholicism who spent time with the normative modern Mass and moved on after they discovered the traditional Mass. Many pope warned against modernism, and their warnings are proving to be true. So either the Popes that warned against modernism were right, or you are. You decide.

 

[Hesychios]

gelsbern:

I am working on digging up statistics for you but around the world the attendance in Catholic Churches has fallen dramatically since Vatican II.

As an example, in Australia attendance has dropped from 70% attending pre-Vatican II to 50% attending in the 70’s down to 20% range today.

I don’t disagree, however I am convinced that this would have happened whether or not there ever was a Vatican II.

Please believe me when I say that I am not arguing against your idea as much as sharing another take on it. There is a lot of validity to what you say.

We have seen a major cultural shift in the western-oriented societies, we have entered a sceptical age that is overwhelming all religious traditions. This is probably as big or bigger a reason for the decline.

Anyway I am trying to find unbiased statistics and it is proving difficult. I do believe however that attendance at Traditional Mass is growing, unfortunately without the data, I can’t honestly correlate it to anything specific, but the the fact that attendance to normative modern Mass is declining says something.

I think that there is a phenomenon I would call a magnet model: if you make one out of many parishes a model with some quality particularly unique, it will draw individuals from well beyond the normal bounds from a self selected group.

So I would say that statistically it could look like impressive growth, but if it draws people from other parishes the results can be deceiving. In other words, what would be the net result if the number of parishes with traditional mass suddenly doubled? The opportunities for this self-selected group would be more varied and statistically it could look like a decline in some places. The eastern Catholic parishes in the USA have this problem, if the parishes are too close together they are competing with each other for a self-limiting pool of believers.

The huge numbers are not as huge as they used to be, and I know of several converts to Catholicism who spent time with the normative modern Mass and moved on after they discovered the traditional Mass. Many pope warned against modernism, and their warnings are proving to be true. So either the Popes that warned against modernism were right, or you are. You decide.

This is also a phenomenon we encounter in eastern churches, Catholic and Orthodox: converts are attrracted to the liturgy and parctices and eventually become familiar enough to feel the novelty has worn off and a kind of disatisfaction ensues. Individuals start looking for that fresh-convert enthusiasm and find it in another tradition. They feed off of it from one parish to another and jurisdiction to another!

I have seen people who start out Presbyterian or Baptist, go through Lutheranism or Anglicanism, become Roman Catholics, then Traditionalists, then SSPX and finally jump to Byzantine Catholicism or even Orthodoxy! Some converts to Orthodoxy go from Greek or Antiochian to ROCOR, then ROAC all in pursuit of this Holy Grail of religious practice.

So I am not surprised the traditionalism is attractive to converts, one must guard against making the leap for the wrong reasons or we make the leap again and again.

 

[Franze]

Because many people don´t indentify with the church, only receive sacraments for the tradition( this happens in my country)
Because there are many people with damages about the faith and facts of the church
Becuase there are bad priests in works and priests that think that the church is something burocratic and not evangelic.
For the church´s scandals bad solved.

 

[GoodSamaritan]

Newsflash: IT’S NOT OVER DOCTRINE

People leave the Catholic Church because it’s quite possible (and probable in many parishes) that you can sit next to the same person every Sunday in a liturgy and NEVER know their name. People crave a sense of community, companionship, no judgment, and social reassurance and so they leave to become Mormon, JW, Charismatic, or other. These Churches foster an environment where people feel wanted and so they fit in the doctrines in order to maintain this great feeling of fellowship.

Me, I’d much rather have the recipe for eternal life through Christ’s sacraments than attend more potlucks…

 

[kayla]

*I left many years ago, NOT b/c I wanted another chruch with less rules…I left because I went through a life changing event, but the good news is: I have come back to the Church a much storonger Catholic than ever before.I have found such love and peace with finding my way home and my journey has a wonderfull one. I beleive we as Catholics ,should look more at how to get fallen away Catholics back to the Church…so many are out there but afraid to come home…I know…I was one of them *