Why do people object to youth ministry?

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JackVk said:
You’re being really unfair and making gross overgeneralizations here. Just because it’s a skit done by people who are not Oscar winners doesn’t mean it’s going to be lame, cheesy, and not teach them anything. Maybe you’ve had bad experiences, but that doesn’t mean the Holy Spirit can’t work where He wills.
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No I am not I am basing my points on years worth of high school ministry. I realize that there may be some successes in some places but on balance not that many. Mostly bad approximations to Young Life.
 
WingsOfEagles said:
Gender separation isn’t unheard of for some of the discussions/workshops at retreats I’ve been to. It doesn’t mean that’s the only way material is presented. Afterall, how else are Catholic men and women to meat each other and get married?
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Social events. Not formation events. We munge these together and screw them both up.
 
Edward_H said:
Social events. Not formation events. We munge these together and screw them both up.
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If it’s a formation event over the course of 3 days, I see nothing wrong with there being social pieces. Yes, you have clear prayer and workshop times, but the youth also need a little down time to enjoy each other’s company.
 
benjammin said:
I totally agree, but also, can’t these kids make friends at youth group. What if a person lives in a city with not very many catholics and doesn’t necessarily know who’s all involved and who’s not? In that sense a youth group can connect a lot of people. Also, what if the parents don’t feel they are the best teachers?

I understand there are probably a lot of flakey, boring or even downright heretical youth group movements (unfortunately a lot of lifeteen groups fall into this, though some are very good). So whats wrong with getting kids to get together in these groups. Maybe they can find something in common with their faith.

Also, i remember you said something about how most kids would rather text under their desks or pass notes. As a teacher, it is then our job to engage them more. Now I agree that you shouldn’t do something heretical, but you do need to do something engaging. You are probably the type of person who is very interested about catholicism and does a lot of self study. Unfortunately most people aren’t that way even if they go to mass every sunday. Does that make them bad catholics? No. Instead these are people who need to get excited by the faith. You give them information that is sound within the catholic church while entertaining them and getting them excited. It doesn’t have to be all guitars and **** either. Maybe some kids are interested in different apologetic topics. Some may be more interested in social justice or any number of topics. I remember as a social studies teacher that you can’t just rely off the textbook or the kids will be bored. Now i’m not saying the catechism is boring, but for teens it can be a bit much, but you can teach it to them by finding ways to make it apply to their lives or think of examples of how it relates. Same with scripture. Any good teacher will find a way to get kids the info without dumbing it down, but still making it interesting and exciting.

Sorry for the rant, but I just got going. I do agree though that friendship is important. But, youthgroups when properly run can be great sources of friendship
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No rant. You make solid points. This is good engaging discussion. I don’t mean to be dogmatic but I am challenging what seems like a stagnant approach in many parishes.
 
Edward_H said:
No I am not I am basing my points on years worth of high school ministry. I realize that there may be some successes in some places but on balance not that many. Mostly bad approximations to Young Life.
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Then I suppose I can’t dispute your experiences, as you more than likely have more than I do (I’ve been my YMs’ drone, er, volunteer 😃 for only 2 years, and I tend to be very naive.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have Zs to catch. God bless!
 
JackVk said:
eh, I just think I needed something to complain about on the Internet this evening. 😊 I kid you not, my former confessor started laughing when I started to say “net surfing…you know the drill”. Ugh, I’m really getting tired of this personality trait.
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Off topic reply-

I have the same issue. What works for me is to write out my comment, read it, see if it passes my “is this what a Catholic should say” test, and delete if it doesn’t pass. It doesn’t work all the time, but the process has helped me a lot in reducing my negative comments and rants. The generally positive atmosphere on these forums also helps.
 
WingsOfEagles said:
If it’s a formation event over the course of 3 days, I see nothing wrong with there being social pieces. Yes, you have clear prayer and workshop times, but the youth also need a little down time to enjoy each other’s company.
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I don’t believe a formation event should last 3 days. Short punchy regular periods of stretch. I can’t imagine a 3 day event,focused on formation.
 
JackVk said:
Then I suppose I can’t dispute your experiences, as you more than likely have more than I do (I’ve been my YMs’ drone, er, volunteer 😃 for only 2 years, and I tend to be very naive.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have Zs to catch. God bless!
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Please…I am being too argumentative. I am from a very big parish…and the unintended consequence of YM in our parish is parents dropping off their kids as if it’s just another soccer match, piano class, Karate class, etc. They detach.
 
Edward_H said:
I don’t believe a formation event should last 3 days. Short punchy regular periods of stretch. I can’t imagine a 3 day event,focused on formation.
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Many of the retreats involve overnights (at least in my area), so it is a whole Youth Ministry experience. It involves many of the things you suggest, but also other things. Yes, the weekly (or bi-weekly), YM meetings are generally more of what you say, but the retreats usually try to add in some fun pieces. I also see nothing wrong with a YM having a “let’s just get together and enjoy each others company on a canoe trip” function.
 
Edward_H said:
Please…I am being too argumentative. I am from a very big parish…and the unintended consequence of YM in our parish is parents dropping off their kids as if it’s just another soccer match, piano class, Karate class, etc. They detach.
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Oh, I’m being argumentative too. I’m a big parish guy as well, and I totally see what you mean there. It’s a cryin’ shame 😦
 
WingsOfEagles said:
Many of the retreats involve overnights (at least in my area), so it is a whole Youth Ministry experience. It involves many of the things you suggest, but also other things. Yes, the weekly (or bi-weekly), YM meetings are generally more of what you say, but the retreats usually try to add in some fun pieces. I also see nothing wrong with a YM having a “let’s just get together and enjoy each others company on a canoe trip” function.
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A retreat should be reserved for real work on the soul, not for a bunch of concatenated activities to fill up a 3 day period. A retreat should be to stir a conversation with God. Lots of silence. And quiet work. Forming one or 2 resolutions.
 
WingsOfEagles said:
Many of the retreats involve overnights (at least in my area), so it is a whole Youth Ministry experience. It involves many of the things you suggest, but also other things. Yes, the weekly (or bi-weekly), YM meetings are generally more of what you say, but the retreats usually try to add in some fun pieces. I also see nothing wrong with a YM having a “let’s just get together and enjoy each others company on a canoe trip” function.
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Right…I’d call that a canoe trip not a retreat. Maybe on the canoe trip you mention an upcoming retreat…perhaps stirring their curiosity about it…silent retreat, tough work, but "you guys are old enough and ready for the work…but enough of that for now…let’s get the canoes in the water…
 
Edward_H said:
Sorry…I’ve seen too many YEARS of skits. Maybe 1 in a hundred had effect. It’s such a pat, lazy thing to do.
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I agree with you there…skits are a great way to build a team…but once you’ve got the team there’s no need to go there again.
 
I don’t think people object to Youth Ministry…I think they are more or less misinformed about it. One person said that people who often complain about their parish are most likely less involved. I have to agree with that statement, several of our churches closed and the people that complained the most were the people less involved. Those that were the most involved in the parish accepted the decision of the Bishop and helped to make the necessary transitions better.

What is lacking in Catholic Youth Ministry isn’t the involvement of children because there will always be children who want to learn more about our faith. What is lacking is the willingness of Adults, and the children’s parents. If enough parents are involved then the children will more than likely see that what we are trying to do as CCD/YM leaders is important.

Faith formation should begin at home, not in a classroom or a youth room. Yes it should be the job of every Catholic to teach the faith on to the next generation. But the true education should happen at home. Youth groups fail because people don’t get involved as they should. People who complain about them, should get involved and maybe, just maybe they and the kids will learn something together.
 
Edward_H said:
First, you separate the genders. Too much distraction to allow real work onthe soul to happen.

Then you get some topics that have an edge to them. Moral decision making, showing heroic virtue in their daily life, helping fiends with troubles, learning to love struggle, theology of the body. You get people who know how to talk plainly.
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I have to object to this. I found split-gender studies far more distracting than mixed ones. Some kids may benefit from them, but it’s at the expense often both of valuable friendships, and of boring any kids that don’t fit classic gender stereotypes to tears.
 
DarkLight said:
I have to object to this. I found split-gender studies far more distracting than mixed ones. Some kids may benefit from them, but it’s at the expense often both of valuable friendships, and of boring any kids that don’t fit classic gender stereotypes to tears.
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We need data. Too important an issue to leave to opinions, “mays”, and trendy fashions.
 
Edward_H said:
We need data. Too important an issue to leave to opinions, “mays”, and trendy fashions.
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I’m not entirely sure what kind of data we’d look for. Even if we could collect accurate statistics, I worry that adopting statistical approaches often ends up leaving a lot of people behind. That was my experience - they’d adopt activities that were fun for 3/4 of the young women, and the rest of us were pretty much told to suck it up. Which was a pity especially because depth often got left out because “most of the kids weren’t interested in it.”
 
DarkLight said:
I’m not entirely sure what kind of data we’d look for. Even if we could collect accurate statistics, I worry that adopting statistical approaches often ends up leaving a lot of people behind. That was my experience - they’d adopt activities that were fun for 3/4 of the young women, and the rest of us were pretty much told to suck it up. Which was a pity especially because depth often got left out because “most of the kids weren’t interested in it.”
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Agree. But we ran some parallel sessions. Classes taught to young me by men; and classes for young women by women. We randomly assigned students…and test scores and behavior problems revealed some substantial difference with 9th and 10th graders.

You can also cover sensitive topics far easier, and the young men responded well to the sincerity that was possible.
 
Edward_H said:
Agree. But we ran some parallel sessions. Classes taught to young me by men; and classes for young women by women. We randomly assigned students…and test scores and behavior problems revealed some substantial difference with 9th and 10th graders.

You can also cover sensitive topics far easier, and the young men responded well to the sincerity that was possible.
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I think there is something to be said for dividing men and women up sometimes. I have seen Men’s and Women’s workshops happen simultaneously to discuss sensitive topics, which works well. I don’t necessarily think it has to be this way all of the time. Certain topics don’t require men and women to be separated to discuss pretty openly. For example, “love your neighbor” or “real presence in the Eucharist”. However, something like Theology of the Body is best discussed with one’s appropriate gender (okay to watch/listen to the talk together, but divide up for discussions).
 
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