Why do people who say they are Catholic continue to say so when they do not follow the teachings of the Catholic church?

[Sir_Knight]

Well sir, there are only two classes of sin. Mortal and Venial. Once a sin is mortal, its all pretty much the same. The end result is hell for the unrepentant. So again, why is ABCs, same sex marriage and abortion qualifiers for saying one is not Catholic, compared to pre-marital sex, divorce and remarriage, rape, murder, etc.?

I already answered this question. See the following …

Why is one sin worse than the other? Because the church says so (see Church Canon 751 & 1364 §1) and Jesus promised that whatever the Church binds on earth, WILL BE bound in heaven. So, if one rejects one or more official church teachings, one excludes themselves from the Church community.

Indeed. So believing a marriage should be for anyone would exclude you from the Church, yet stealing millions that would have gone into the betterment of lives of a large number of people doesn’t?

Exactly. Now you got it.

 

[Redratfish]

My mother, who disagrees openly with the Church in terms of contraception, and male priesthood, and the new changes in the Mass, does it because we are the only Church with the Eucharist, and Confession.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I would say He would try to make both repent. Its up to them to come follow Christ, or continue with their wicked ways and condemn themselves. I just don’t get why people today say that one of them should be excluded from the Church outright until they repent, and the other should stay in the hopes of repenting. Why is there a distinction? Both are sinners, and both need the guidance of the Church to find Christ and repent.

You hit the name on the head. Both need the guidance of the Church to find Christ and repent but one of them believes that they have nothing to repent for because they are not wrong on this matter. They have, in effect, said that they know better than the Church on it and have actually excluded themselves.

 

[valentino]

Some people(Catholics)are in what seem to be impossible situations.Even though they may commit the same sin(sins)over and over again they may be praying constintly for God’s help in getting out from under.God wants us never to give up and to keep trying no matter how hard that may be.It is very painful to keep trying and keep falling with no end in sight.aand to keep confessing the sin(or sins)over and over again.I believe with that constant determination God can make a saint oout of anyone.It’s probably just as hard to keep trying and failing and then confessing as it is if one had never committed those sins in the first place.

 

[rinnie]

I agree. I’ve seen those who otherwise might be rather faithful Catholics right here on CAF saying a Catholic can not be identified as a Catholic because of this or that. Or quotation marks are used. Yet it is one of the Church teachings that they indeed are Catholic. So the person who says a baptized, confirmed Catholic can not be identified as a Catholic is in essence going against teaching.

Matt once you are baptised in the CC you are Catholic. But what you are seeing is what are called fallen Catholics’

Just like we can fall to sin, we can fall away from our faith.

But to fall away from the faith, does not mean we are still baptised in the faith. Nothing takes that away. But just because we are saved by our baptism and welcomed into the faith, does not mean we can fall away from Christ by our own free will and reject his Grace he has given us.

Then we can fall into sin, and by our own free will be forever separted from him. ITs our choice.

 

[rinnie]

The gay issue is a public scandal and controversy; therefore the Church is fighting it publicly.

No amount of empathy or sympathy for someone or some couple can make sin unwrong, as much as some might like to.

ICXC NIKA.

And that is where the problem began long ago. The Church has always fought it and always will. But the Church will never fall away to sin, but people will fall away to sin.

And they will find a Church they will let them live in this sin and even help them to believe that this sin is okay with God, and thats what is really the greatest sin of all.

It has been in this world for too many years now, People who take the word of God and make into the word of Man and live according to Mans law and not Gods. That is why we are in such a mess.

The RCC will always stick up for the word of God you have his word on it. The gates of hell will not prevail. That is why it is so hated. The RCC will never bend to man, Man must bend to the RCC.

 

[rinnie]

Again, it was just a wish, nothing more. I’m not trying to pretend to know what Jesus would tell me.
I just get the impression that some people in this thread think that two gays loving each other is the worst sin ever while going down to poor countries, killing and exploiting people to steal their money and resources is just a minor sin, no big deal.

Forget that I even expressed that wish.

I disagree, We believe that a sin is a sin. No matter what it is? Is it not sin that separates you from God. So then what is the difference? If you are in a state of mortal sin because you are living in sin, or killing someone? Is it not the same outcome?

 

[Lui]

I disagree, We believe that a sin is a sin. No matter what it is? Is it not sin that separates you from God. So then what is the difference? If you are in a state of mortal sin because you are living in sin, or killing someone? Is it not the same outcome?

So why is it that voting for one political party is better than voting for the other? If one party does not support gay marriage or abortion but supports the exploitation of others to make profit, then it would be wrong to vote for that party too but it seems like certain sins are swept under the carpet because it isn’t convenient.

 

[rinnie]

Hello Lui, I will take a stab at what I think will be the answer as to how they know a person will go to hell if they die in mortal sin.

I am not sure what the Holy Days of Obligation are in Germany. Here in the states where I live, lets say I did not obey my bishop and missed a Holy Day of Obligation. Lets say the Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary on a Thursday December 8. This would be a mortal sin according to the Catholic Church. So if I do not repent in my heart for missing this one Thursday Mass prior to taking my last breath, even if I had never missed another Mass in my life and had otherwise lived as exemplary a life as possible for a human being, they will I think say I will go to hell. They will say they are not judging me. That it is just a warning to me as if I were being told not to jump off a cliff. That they are not saying I will definitely go to hell. Only that I will, if I die without repenting in my heart this disobedience of my bishop of not attending Mass on the Thursday in my scenario. But that they do not know if I will have done so or not. At least this is how I have had it explained to me previously. God bless and peace!

You better put the knife back in the drawer there Matt. That is nothing like what the Holy Catholic Church teaches.

If we miss a Sunday or a Holy Day of obligation, which is by the way really the same thing, and we had to work for one, it is not a sin. But if we could not attend for some reason we are told to do some reptenance on our own. LIke maybe say the rosary, or spend time with a older person, do some act of kindness to make up for the lost time in Church.

But also now that you have put words in the Mouth of the OHCAC it is now your turn to put your money where your mouth is.

Show me one scirpture that the OHCAC has ever put condmned anyone to hell. You said it, you must back it up.

 

[rinnie]

So why is it that voting for one political party is better than voting for the other? If one party does not support gay marriage or abortion but supports the exploitation of others to make profit, then it would be wrong to vote for that party too but it seems like certain sins are swept under the carpet because it isn’t convenient.

Because Father told me we are to vote our conscience. For instance say one person is for same sex marriage and we disagree with that. But we do agree with other views that will help, say better health care, help for older citizens then it is okay to vote for that Party it is not a sin.

But say I voted for that party simply because of the SIn of same sex marriage, then I am sinning against God.

 

[rinnie]

So why is it that voting for one political party is better than voting for the other? If one party does not support gay marriage or abortion but supports the exploitation of others to make profit, then it would be wrong to vote for that party too but it seems like certain sins are swept under the carpet because it isn’t convenient.

By the way if you want to find a person who you could vote for that was perfect in the eyes of the Church, Good Luck with that

You mind as well forget about voting ALL TOGETHER

 

[Lui]

Because Father told me we are to vote our conscience. For instance say one person is for same sex marriage and we disagree with that. But we do agree with other views that will help, say better health care, help for older citizens then it is okay to vote for that Party it is not a sin.

But say I voted for that party simply because of the SIn of same sex marriage, then I am sinning against God.

That makes sense.

By the way if you want to find a person who you could vote for that was perfect in the eyes of the Church, Good Luck with that

You mind as well forget about voting ALL TOGETHER

 

[GEddie]

So why is it that voting for one political party is better than voting for the other? If one party does not support gay marriage or abortion but supports the exploitation of others to make profit, then it would be wrong to vote for that party too but it seems like certain sins are swept under the carpet because it isn’t convenient.

The difference, in USA anyhow, is that there is no political party that expressly promotes “exploitation to make a profit.”. Nor is there a party that expressly fights such activity.

There is, however, a political party that promotes abortion and gay marriages, and one that (halfheartedly) fights them.

Also, abortion and GM are always wrong; “exploitation” is not. The alternatives in the “third world” are not necessarily exploitation or justice; often they are exploitation or starvation. That is an issue for the countries involved, not the USA per se.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Lui]

The difference, in USA anyhow, is that there is no political party that expressly promotes “exploitation to make a profit.”. Nor is there a party that expressly fights such activity.

There is, however, a political party that promotes abortion and gay marriages, and one that (halfheartedly) fights them.

Also, abortion and GM are always wrong; “exploitation” is not. The alternatives in the “third world” are not necessarily exploitation or justice; often they are exploitation or starvation. That is an issue for the countries involved, not the USA per se.

ICXC NIKA

The issue with exploitation which I think is always wrong, was just an example. I’m pretty sure that ALL parties do things that are sins. As an example: to say a good Catholic MUST vote for the Republicans is absurd, IMO.

 

[rinnie]

The issue with exploitation which I think is always wrong, was just an example. I’m pretty sure that ALL parties do things that are sins. As an example: to say a good Catholic MUST vote for the Republicans is absurd, IMO.

That is exactly correct. But what a good Catholic must do is vote his conscience. I have voted D. all of my life until this last year.

I did not agree with gay marriage, and what bothered me the most was his health care package and care for the elderly and human life.

I knew that if he was to live out the promise of health care for everyone the poor and especially our seniors would suffer. And that exactly how its comming up. And it is so sad.

The poor seniors have no where to turn.

 

[Captain_America]

I wish I could vote Democratic—used to help the party—but they’ve stuck their future into abortion and gay marriage.

 

[SteveGC]

You better put the knife back in the drawer there Matt. That is nothing like what the Holy Catholic Church teaches.

If we miss a Sunday or a Holy Day of obligation, which is by the way really the same thing, and we had to work for one, it is not a sin. But if we could not attend for some reason we are told to do some reptenance on our own. LIke maybe say the rosary, or spend time with a older person, do some act of kindness to make up for the lost time in Church.

But also now that you have put words in the Mouth of the OHCAC it is now your turn to put your money where your mouth is.

Show me one scirpture that the OHCAC has ever put condmned anyone to hell. You said it, you must back it up.

Rinnie, I think CMatt’s example was inferring a scenario wherein a Catholic missed a Holy Day without a valid reason. Also, he himself did not say that the Church has ever condemned anyone to Hell. Atleast, I didn’t see where he said that, and he certainly didn’t claim there was scripture to support that idea. I think he was relaying a concept that had been explained to him from a Catholic.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, I think CMatt’s example was inferring a scenario wherein a Catholic missed a Holy Day without a valid reason. Also, he himself did not say that the Church has ever condemned anyone to Hell. Atleast, I didn’t see where he said that, and he certainly didn’t claim there was scripture to support that idea. I think he was relaying a concept that had been explained to him from a Catholic.

Well then he didn’t get it right at all. But if I misunderstood I apologize. But I heard him say that if we miss a Holy Day w/o a valid reason we die in mortal sin and then we are going to hell? SO maybe I read it wrong.

Anyway that is not the teaching at all. For mortal sin all 3 conditons must accure. And I do not believe us missing Church one Sunday here and there for no good reason will sent us to hell. We have to repent of course, but that is all sin. I disagree completely with what he said.

 

[SteveGC]

Well then he didn’t get it right at all. But if I misunderstood I apologize. But I heard him say that if we miss a Holy Day w/o a valid reason we die in mortal sin and then we are going to hell? SO maybe I read it wrong.

Anyway that is not the teaching at all. For mortal sin all 3 conditons must accure. And I do not believe us missing Church one Sunday here and there for no good reason will sent us to hell. We have to repent of course, but that is all sin. I disagree completely with what he said.

I’m not so sure you should completely disagree, rin.

Again, I think the scenario was meant to infer the presence of all 3 qualifiers for mortal sin…the grave nature, full knowledge, full consent. And if those qualifiers are all in place, and if it is unrepented (which was also stipulated in the scenario), then the scenario is essentially accurate, no?

 

[Lui]

That is exactly correct. But what a good Catholic must do is vote his conscience. I have voted D. all of my life until this last year.

I did not agree with gay marriage, and what bothered me the most was his health care package and care for the elderly and human life.

I knew that if he was to live out the promise of health care for everyone the poor and especially our seniors would suffer. And that exactly how its comming up. And it is so sad.

The poor seniors have no where to turn.

Totally off topic now, but I don’t get the whole health care situation in the USA anyway. I always thought it is a good thing. Here in Germany everybody has health care. If you’re poor and can’t afford it, the Government pays for your health care.

Having said that, Germany is becoming more and more a rich man, poor man society. If someone has private health care, he will immediately get an appointment with any doctor. If a person has Government health care, he is treated like a second class patient and sometimes has to wait for weeks…