Why do people who say they are Catholic continue to say so when they do not follow the teachings of the Catholic church?

[CMatt25]

How do you know that?

Hello Lui, I will take a stab at what I think will be the answer as to how they know a person will go to hell if they die in mortal sin.

I am not sure what the Holy Days of Obligation are in Germany. Here in the states where I live, lets say I did not obey my bishop and missed a Holy Day of Obligation. Lets say the Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary on a Thursday December 8. This would be a mortal sin according to the Catholic Church. So if I do not repent in my heart for missing this one Thursday Mass prior to taking my last breath, even if I had never missed another Mass in my life and had otherwise lived as exemplary a life as possible for a human being, they will I think say I will go to hell. They will say they are not judging me. That it is just a warning to me as if I were being told not to jump off a cliff. That they are not saying I will definitely go to hell. Only that I will, if I die without repenting in my heart this disobedience of my bishop of not attending Mass on the Thursday in my scenario. But that they do not know if I will have done so or not. At least this is how I have had it explained to me previously. God bless and peace!

 

[mark_a]

I can’t agree with this either. If you know the Church is right, why sin in the first place? A sin must have consent. If you consent to doing something against what the Church teaches, then how can you conclusively say you agree with the Church?

Because I’m selfish and imperfect maybe?

 

[Rome4me]

As an RCIA Candidate (currently preparing for the next class this Fall), and former Protestant, I have been amazed at this phenomena as well. It is almost like a cultural identification more than anything.

I have a friend who says she is a Catholic and still goes to Mass, but doesn’t agree with the Church’s position on:

1. Birth Control
2. Abortion
3. Homosexuality
4. Women’s role in the home

Sounds like an Episcopal USA or United Methodist to me.

Anyhow, Just signed up today and feel blessed to be arriving at Rome. In spirit at least.

 

[mark_a]

As an RCIA Candidate (currently preparing for the next class this Fall), and former Protestant, I have been amazed at this phenomena as well. It is almost like a cultural identification more than anything.

I have a friend who says she is a Catholic and still goes to Mass, but doesn’t agree with the Church’s position on:

1. Birth Control
2. Abortion
3. Homosexuality
4. Women’s role in the home

Sounds like an Episcopal USA or United Methodist to me.

Anyhow, Just signed up today and feel blessed to be arriving at Rome. In spirit at least.

Acceptance of contraception among dissenters is the reason for the rest of the list.

Anyway, welcome home!!!

 

[Conor7]

This is confusing to me. Nobody forces someone to be part of a particular religion. If you disagree with parts of the teachings why stay in it? I ask this because I am not a supporter of religion because I do not believe in legalism in one’s walk with Christ. However, there are obviously many people who need the guidance of a religion for their walk. That’s their personal choice and I would not condemn or judge it.

But, why chose to remain a Catholic if you disagree or debate the teachings of the Catholic church?

Thanks for any responses!

I heard this very interesting segment on Speaking of Faith some months back discussing what it is to be Catholic. What I surmised from the conversation is that being Catholic is kind of like being Jewish; It’s more than a religion, but a culture.

Many of those being interviewed on this program talked about once one is Catholic, one is always in some relation to the Catholic Church:- practicing Catholic, devout Catholic, lapsed Catholic, non-practicing Catholic. There are a million adjectives to put in front of the word Catholic, yet one is still in some degree Catholic.

I thought it was interesting when I was young to hear my father answer the question: What religion are you? He would always say, non-practicing Catholic. He was never going to set foot in a Church again, but gosh darn it, he was Catholic.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Because I’m selfish and imperfect maybe?

Each and everyone one of us are. That is why Christ established the Church on earth.

 

[jtodisco]

You must be patient with such people.

Many of them disagree with the Church on certain points only because they do not fully understand what the Church teaches. I believe most people come to accept the teachings of the Church only gradually. I have yet to meet a person who upon entering the faith immediately understood and agreed with everything the Church teaches. Those of us who have come to see the wisdom of Christ’s Church are duty bound to help our brothers and sisters whose understanding is not as complete. We must be very careful though not to think that we “know it all” or are “superior” to Catholics who are either less informed or simply have different views (that do not actually contradict the Church). There is a fine line between helping others to better understand the faith and being a modern day Pharisee.

 

[Adonia]

Just in case.

 

[Benadam]

I heard this very interesting segment on Speaking of Faith some months back discussing what it is to be Catholic. What I surmised from the conversation is that being Catholic is kind of like being Jewish; It’s more than a religion, but a culture.

Many of those being interviewed on this program talked about once one is Catholic, one is always in some relation to the Catholic Church:- practicing Catholic, devout Catholic, lapsed Catholic, non-practicing Catholic. There are a million adjectives to put in front of the word Catholic, yet one is still in some degree Catholic.

I thought it was interesting when I was young to hear my father answer the question: What religion are you? He would always say, non-practicing Catholic. He was never going to set foot in a Church again, but gosh darn it, he was Catholic.

That reminds me of a funny story about my late uncle. Both him and my dad were converted in their late teens by their uncle. My dad never missed a Sunday or day of obligation, very faithfull Catholic. My uncle OTOH put the Church in his back pocket and went about his life. I didn’t know he was Catholic even untill my cousins told me they were batized. Well, he decided to go to mass after years away. He knelt down at the pew preparing himself for Mass. But when the Mass started he became very agitated. After a little while he got up very angry and walked out mumbling under his breath. After Mass my dad asked what was the matter? My uncle said " That aint no Catholic Church! I didn’t come to go to a protestant church! My uncle had never been to a Novus Ordo Mass.My hard drinkin, fighting , trouble makin’ uncle was more Catholic than all of us put together!

 

[CMatt25]

Many of them disagree with the Church on certain points only because they do not fully understand what the Church teaches.

While I find this is often said on CA, disagreeing does not mean they don’t undertand or are misinformed.

 

[CMatt25]

Just in case.

Exactly. Some might hold on in some degree because they are not 100% certain the Catholic Church is not the one. And in the meantime they strive to listen to God’s Spirit to see where He wants them to be. No one knows where such believers will feel led to by Him and end up in time.

 

[Adonia]

That reminds me of a funny story about my late uncle. Both him and my dad were converted in their late teens by their uncle. My dad never missed a Sunday or day of obligation, very faithfull Catholic. My uncle OTOH put the Church in his back pocket and went about his life. I didn’t know he was Catholic even untill my cousins told me they were batized. Well, he decided to go to mass after years away. He knelt down at the pew preparing himself for Mass. But when the Mass started he became very agitated. After a little while he got up very angry and walked out mumbling under his breath. After Mass my dad asked what was the matter? My uncle said " That aint no Catholic Church! I didn’t come to go to a protestant church! My uncle had never been to a Novus Ordo Mass.My hard drinkin, fighting , trouble makin’ uncle was more Catholic than all of us put together!

That is funny. I can just see him sitting there wondering what in tarnation was going on.

 

[Lui]

I have a friend who says she is a Catholic and still goes to Mass, but doesn’t agree with the Church’s position on:

1. Birth Control
2. Abortion
3. Homosexuality
4. Women’s role in the home

What I don’t get is why so many Catholics seemed to be obsessed with these topics as if they were they only concerns of a faithful Catholic.

 

[rinnie]

This is confusing to me. Nobody forces someone to be part of a particular religion. If you disagree with parts of the teachings why stay in it? I ask this because I am not a supporter of religion because I do not believe in legalism in one’s walk with Christ. However, there are obviously many people who need the guidance of a religion for their walk. That’s their personal choice and I would not condemn or judge it.

But, why chose to remain a Catholic if you disagree or debate the teachings of the Catholic church?

Thanks for any responses!

Because they are human, and when we are human we fall to sin. You are correct noone forces us to be a part of a particular religion.

Christ himself said you are either with me or you are against me. If you are with Christ you will follow him by your own free will and be part of his Church.

If you are against him you will not follow him and be a part of his Church.

Many People remain Catholic because they know in their heart it is the truth the way and the light, simply because God told us so.

You are allowed to debate the teachings of the Church, you don’t even have to agree with all of them, you just have to obey them.

When you were a child did you agree with every single discipline of your parents. Of course you didn’t. But when you got older and wiser did you come to understand those reasons.

The same with the Church, it is hard to be the perfect Catholic, just like being the perfect child, We fail, we fall, we sin, but just like a parent takes back a child the Church takes back her Children.

Where does the scripture say that you have to agree with every single teaching of Christ? I missed that part, All I ever read is you must obey the teachings of Christ.

Christ said to keep holy the Lords day, that means Church so we do, he said repent and confess your sins, so we do, he says be baptised so we do, He says receive the living bread from heaven so we do.

Christ said you will know the tree by its fruit. Christ said if you love me keep my word, follow my commandments.

So the answer is quite simple, if you want to have eternal life in Christ you will do as you are told, obey his commands and do what you are told. We want eternal life so we obey the Church and do as we are told.

We do not believe that we have the wisdom or knowledge of God to understand everything he says and commands. And he is cool with that. He knows and will reveal it to us when he says no us.

SO while you choose to walk alone we choose to walk with Christ. Because to us it is more important to have eternal life in Christ, and do his will, then to walk this world on our own and loose eternal life with Christ.

 

[rinnie]

As an RCIA Candidate (currently preparing for the next class this Fall), and former Protestant, I have been amazed at this phenomena as well. It is almost like a cultural identification more than anything.

I have a friend who says she is a Catholic and still goes to Mass, but doesn’t agree with the Church’s position on:

1. Birth Control
2. Abortion
3. Homosexuality
4. Women’s role in the home

Sounds like an Episcopal USA or United Methodist to me.

Anyhow, Just signed up today and feel blessed to be arriving at Rome. In spirit at least.

The Pope said you don’t have to agree just obey.

Most people who do not agree find out that they just don’t understand, but they will in time.

Lets take birth control for instance, do you realize that people have 12 and 13 year olds on birth control. And you know what happens mentally they are so screwed up because they still confuse Love with sex, and think its them who have something wrong with them, when the boy breaks up.

And then when they turn 30 or so, many of them cannot get pregnant from being on the pill so long. DId you not wonder why it is so hard for some yonger people to get pregnant.

SImple their parents were on it and so on and so on. Look at my Mother never on it, But today everything we do and take efects the child. Look how they claim its effecting the water supply etc. Time will tell.

And as usual GOD was right and Man was wrong.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Dear Catholics, please examine you conscience. Can you conclusively say you are in accordance with are laws and beliefs of the Catholic Church? Is it enough to say you agree to one thing yet do another? All of us errs in the matter of faith. We sin. When we sin, we go against the teachings of the Church. We cannot sin and be completely 100% in agreement of what the Church teaches. Everytime we sin, we go against the Church. So if we say only those who are in 100% agreement with the Church are Catholics, then there are no Catholics in the world.

I can’t agree with this either. If you know the Church is right, why sin in the first place? A sin must have consent. If you consent to doing something against what the Church teaches, then how can you conclusively say you agree with the Church?

You are comparing apples and oranges. There is a difference between giving into sin and rejecting the teaching authority of the Church.

For example, the Church teaches that masturbation is a grave sin. We now have two people – person A & person B …

• • Person A knows what the Church teaches on this matter but believes that the Church is wrong. According to Church Canon 751, anyone who rejects one or more Catholic Church teachings is considered to be a “heretic” … … Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith … and according to Canon 1364 §1, heretics are AUTOMATICALLY excommunicated from the Catholic Church … … an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication … The phrase “latae sententiae” means a judgment or sentence which has already been brought, in other words, a sentence or judgment which does not need a future additional judgment from someone in authority; it refers to a type of excommunication which is automatic. Such a sentence of excommunication is incurred “by the very commission of the offense,” (CCC 2272) and does NOT require the future particular judgment of a case by competent authority.
  Excommunication is defined as exclusion from the communion (Source). Which means that they no longer are entitled to the benefits that the Church has to offer it’s regular members until the excommunication is lifted. They are a fallen away Catholic who can not be counted among the Church’s members because they have excommunicated / excluded themselves from that community.
  • Person B is also aware of Church teaching on masturbation and also gives into this sin but recognizes that HE is the one that is in the wrong and not the Catholic Church. He has still committed a mortal sin and if he dies before repenting of it will be damned to hell, but, unlike person A, he is not a fallen away Catholic. A fallen Catholic, yes. But not a fallen away Catholic like person A is.

 

[mark_a]

What I don’t get is why so many Catholics seemed to be obsessed with these topics as if they were they only concerns of a faithful Catholic.

Because this is where most people are tempted fall into sin. Otherwise we’d fall into that disgusting “faith alone” category, so prevalent in our culture.

 

[ConstantineTG]

You are comparing apples and oranges. There is a difference between giving into sin and rejecting the teaching authority of the Church.

For example, the Church teaches that masturbation is a grave sin. We now have two people – person A & person B …

• • Person A knows what the Church teaches on this matter but believes that the Church is wrong. According to Church Canon 751, anyone who rejects one or more Catholic Church teachings is considered to be a “heretic” … … Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith … and according to Canon 1364 §1, heretics are AUTOMATICALLY excommunicated from the Catholic Church … … an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication … The phrase “latae sententiae” means a judgment or sentence which has already been brought, in other words, a sentence or judgment which does not need a future additional judgment from someone in authority; it refers to a type of excommunication which is automatic. Such a sentence of excommunication is incurred “by the very commission of the offense,” (CCC 2272) and does NOT require the future particular judgment of a case by competent authority.
  Excommunication is defined as exclusion from the communion (Source). Which means that they no longer are entitled to the benefits that the Church has to offer it’s regular members until the excommunication is lifted. They are a fallen away Catholic who can not be counted among the Church’s members because they have excommunicated / excluded themselves from that community.
  • Person B is also aware of Church teaching on masturbation and also gives into this sin but recognizes that HE is the one that is in the wrong and not the Catholic Church. He has still committed a mortal sin and if he dies before repenting of it will be damned to hell, but, unlike person A, he is not a fallen away Catholic. A fallen Catholic, yes. But not a fallen away Catholic like person A is.

• 
  Many people just don’t give in to sin, but rather has let a nasty habit go unchecked. Its the same thing, the only difference is these people who have liberalized just tried to find a justification for their actions. Ultimately, both struggle with sin. To liberalize is a sin, it is a sin of pride. As I said, I do not see why one sin is worse than the other, why should we (and we have no authority on this) kick out people who sin one kind, and not those who sin with another kind.

 

[TimothyH]

Christ asks all of us to admonish the sinner. It is an act of charity. But we cannot say who is or who isn’t Catholic. When we are baptized, then we are members of Christ’s Church. All of us sin in different ways. Some sin with pride, and with this pride they cannot accept teaching of the Church, thinking they know better. How is that sin any worse than the other grave sins? We all need healing.

My point is not about different sins, or even relative gravity of different types of sin. My point is that we should place our effort where God has placed us. God has placed us in a specific place in time and space, with specific people, and with specific authorities and responsiblities.

Mother Theresa said, “Grow where you are planted”.

The primary person we ought to admonish is ourselves. To look after one’s own salvation is not a sin and we are primarily responsible to and for ourselves. After that, we have been placed in a position of some authority over and in responsiblity to our family, and that is where our focus should be next. Our friends, fellow parishoners, business associates come after that.

It’s one thing to admonish a close friend, relative, or even a fellow parishoner. It’s another thing to stand on the street corner with a bull horn yelling at everyone that they are going to hell or to complain endlessly about “Cafeteria Catholics” in some church nine thousand miles away. That’s not our place. That is not where God has put us.

My whole point is that some try to overstep the boundaries of where God has placed them, and in doing so, have really taken on responsiblity for others which God himself has not vested them with.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

Acceptance of contraception among dissenters is the reason for the rest of the list.

Anyway, welcome home!!!

This is a VERY provocative statement, one I am inclined to agree with to a certain extent, expecially with regards to dissent on sexual matters and sexual sin, of which I believe acceptance and use of artificial contraception is the root cause.

I’m wondering if you would elaborate, either here if you don’t think it off topic or by PM?

-Tim-