Why do people who say they are Catholic continue to say so when they do not follow the teachings of the Catholic church?

[ConstantineTG]

Dear Catholics, please examine you conscience. Can you conclusively say you are in accordance with are laws and beliefs of the Catholic Church? Is it enough to say you agree to one thing yet do another? All of us errs in the matter of faith. We sin. When we sin, we go against the teachings of the Church. We cannot sin and be completely 100% in agreement of what the Church teaches. Everytime we sin, we go against the Church. So if we say only those who are in 100% agreement with the Church are Catholics, then there are no Catholics in the world.

 

[Cheshangle]

This is confusing to me. Nobody forces someone to be part of a particular religion. If you disagree with parts of the teachings why stay in it? I ask this because I am not a supporter of religion because I do not believe in legalism in one’s walk with Christ. However, there are obviously many people who need the guidance of a religion for their walk. That’s their personal choice and I would not condemn or judge it.

But, why chose to remain a Catholic if you disagree or debate the teachings of the Catholic church?

Thanks for any responses!

I haven’t read all the postings on this thread, but when I saw the title I thought that it was directed at people like me, who at least think of ourselves as catholics though we’re not RC.

However it seems to be directed at RCs who do not “obey all the rules”. Fair enough, but if that’s the case, why’s this in the non-catholic religions thread? It’s about (Roman ) Catholics.

Now speaking as an outsider, it seems to me that the present Pope is worried about what is, I believe, known as “cafetaria catholicism”: you choose which bits you adhere to. Fair enough, but every single lay RC I know is a cafetaria catholic. Indeed, a former work collegue of mine converted and said to the priest, “sorry, I can’t accept all the church’s beliefs”, to which he replied, “don’t worry, accept what you can”.

In addition there a quite a few RCs who are completely lapsed, but still refer to themselves as “catholics” (ditto Anglicans, Methodists and Presbyterians). In some cases, thank God, they return to their faith later in life (as I did, as an Anglican).

In Australia many RCs never go to church, and Cardinal Pell is aware of that, but stated, “at least we still have the tribalism” (as do Protestants).

 

[GraceSofia]

However it seems to be directed at RCs who do not “obey all the rules”. Fair enough, but if that’s the case, why’s this in the non-catholic religions thread? It’s about (Roman ) Catholics.

The OP is brand new (and so should be given some slack) and perhaps she thought that she was required to post in this section since she herself is not Catholic?

Slinger,
You do not have to confine yourself to this sub-forum. In fact, if you are interested in learning about what Catholics believe, you may get more productive results in other forums such as Apologetics or Catholic Living.

Oh. And welcome!

 

[LostTruth28]

I’m just going to say this because I’ve read it in a few posts and well I have something to say on the matter.

Jesus said “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Sadly, unrepentant sinners love, and latch on, to that quote. I agree, I have no right to judge you. But I’ll be damned (yeah that way) if I’m going to let evil have a free say and then tell me I can’t speak out because “I too am a sinner” I’m not throwing stones, I’m correcting a sinful action and teaching the word of God. Which we are all called to do.

 

[mark_a]

Dear Catholics, please examine you conscience. Can you conclusively say you are in accordance with are laws and beliefs of the Catholic Church? Is it enough to say you agree to one thing yet do another? All of us errs in the matter of faith. We sin. When we sin, we go against the teachings of the Church. We cannot sin and be completely 100% in agreement of what the Church teaches. Everytime we sin, we go against the Church. So if we say only those who are in 100% agreement with the Church are Catholics, then there are no Catholics in the world.

I can’t agree. When I sin, I know it’s wrong, and I know that what the Church teaches is right. Still I persist.

 

[PJM]

=Benadam;8132953]Yep

Some think they know better than their forefathers. Instead of conforming themselves to the image of Christ as passed down to us through the Church they are attempting to conform the Church to the image of themselves.

They are the wolves that cause our indignation.

I AGREE:thumbsup:
Very well expressed.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

=Tantum ergo;8132988]The answer depends on the individual. Some people really think that they ‘know better’; some are ‘culturally Catholic’, some want to ‘straddle the fence’, some want to make changes ‘from the inside’, some just don’t understand, some don’t want to understand, and some really want not just to ‘change’ but to actually destroy.

Unfortunately, we can’t know what is in the individual’s heart. And also, a person may ‘change’ not just once but many times in his/her life. The sweet devout 8 year old may become an atheist at 16, ‘revert’ into devoutness at 20, ‘question’ at 24, revert to atheism at 30, actively oppose at 35, briefly revert to ‘cultural Catholicism’ at 45, swing briefly to devout at 50, question at 55, revert to atheism at 60. . .etc. etc. The reasons for ‘departure’ from faith could be different each time.

So just because Mr. X or Ms. Z right now are baptized Catholics who are denying some or all Catholic teachings right now July 2011 doesn’t mean that a week, a month, or a year from now they’ll be doing exactly the same thing.

We can always hope for them to see the light.

***My dear friend in Christ;

I’m intrigued by your final statement.

What are the odds of this hapening? Does not the flow of grace deminish when we are in serious sin?

This passage seems to have been for precisely those of whom we speak with its references to the Sacraments…***

Heb.6 Verses 4 to 10 "'For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,*** if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. *** For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.

Prayer; very much prayer is needed if they are to be granted sufficient grace to have the humility to admit the grevious error of there ways.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[CMatt25]

Dear Catholics, please examine you conscience. Can you conclusively say you are in accordance with are laws and beliefs of the Catholic Church? Is it enough to say you agree to one thing yet do another? All of us errs in the matter of faith. We sin. When we sin, we go against the teachings of the Church. We cannot sin and be completely 100% in agreement of what the Church teaches. Everytime we sin, we go against the Church. So if we say only those who are in 100% agreement with the Church are Catholics, then there are no Catholics in the world.

I agree. I’ve seen those who otherwise might be rather faithful Catholics right here on CAF saying a Catholic can not be identified as a Catholic because of this or that. Or quotation marks are used. Yet it is one of the Church teachings that they indeed are Catholic. So the person who says a baptized, confirmed Catholic can not be identified as a Catholic is in essence going against teaching.

 

[PJM]

=ConstantineTG;8134139]Dear Catholics, please examine you conscience. Can you conclusively say you are in accordance with are laws and beliefs of the Catholic Church? Is it enough to say you agree to one thing yet do another? All of us errs in the matter of faith. We sin. When we sin, we go against the teachings of the Church. We cannot sin and be completely 100% in agreement of what the Church teaches. Everytime we sin, we go against the Church. So if we say only those who are in 100% agreement with the Church are Catholics, then there are no Catholics in the world.

Sorry friend…BUT,

Your idea that one can’t sin and be a member of the CC is not biblical, is not Catholic, and I’m not even sure if its Christian?

“Being in agreement with” and actually following the Teachings are as far as The EAST is from the WEST. One relates to the other; BUT does not dictate personal choices; right or wrong.

** 1John.1 Verses 8 to 10:** "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

** 1John.5 Verses 16 to 17**"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. ** There is sin which is mortal**; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, ** but there is sin which is not mortal. **

** John.20 Verses 20 to 23**]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. ** Jesus said to them ** again, “Peace be with you. ** As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” ** And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

God Bless,
Pat

 

[TimothyH]

The job of correction and rebuke falls primarily to the leadership of the Church. With the exception of our family and close friends, we have not been placed in a position of authority over or repsonsibility for other Catholics salvation.

It’s one thing to correct your children whom you have been given authority over, or to gently correct your spouse to whom you are responsible. I have even grabbed a friend by the scruff of his neck and said, “Are you freaking kidding me? You are a lector at Church and you are having sex outside of marriage with a woman with three kids???” But that was a very close friend, and I could do so with a clear conscience. But that is where God has placed me. He has not placed me in a position of responsibility over anyone else.

Half the effort spent correcting and rebuking others, who we don’t even know and if we were honest would admit that we don’t really care about, should be spent instead on our own gluttony, lack of trust in God, and inability to follow his rules. Instead we get on websites and point out the faults of others.

If there are so many sinners out there, then I would think that the best place to be would be on one’s knees praying, that way you won’t get hit when the lightening bolts start flying.

-Tim-

 

[mariyka]

But, why chose to remain a Catholic if you disagree or debate the teachings of the Catholic church?

Thanks for any responses!

In some cases, it may be because of the “hassle” they think they would get from Catholic family members.

 

[Nicea325]

This is confusing to me. Nobody forces someone to be part of a particular religion. If you disagree with parts of the teachings why stay in it? I ask this because I am not a supporter of religion because I do not believe in legalism in one’s walk with Christ. However, there are obviously many people who need the guidance of a religion for their walk. That’s their personal choice and I would not condemn or judge it.

But, why chose to remain a Catholic if you disagree or debate the teachings of the Catholic church?

Thanks for any responses!

Because it is much easier to conform to worldly things than conforming to God. Many people want God to conform to them and not the other way around. Many folks make up their own God and truly believe that is what the RCC teaches.

 

[GEddie]

Although the Catholic Church is not an ethnic religion, it has the many of the elements of one, to many distinct societies. Until recent times, those having “roots” in Italy, Ireland, Mexico, Spain, etc also identified themselves with Catholicism.

This has receded substantially in modern times, however, there still is a sense that the Catholic faith is part of “who one is.”

ICXC NIKA

 

[Diosesamor]

Dear Christ follower:
Since you are a self identified Christ follower, I want to pointout that were it not for the Catholic church (aka religion) you would not know about Christ at all. Additionally, a person who says they are Catholic, even if not practicing their faith in accordance with the teachings is correct to say they are still a Catholic, albeit a lapsed, non-practicing or cafeteria catholic. Once Catholic, always Catholic.

I agree with you! Once Catholic… Always Catholic! One most hope that even those who are confused and not in line with some aspect of our church are still part of this family… If that connection is permanent their conversion is eminent ! Hope and pray. But lets not judge them. Our church is not made for saints but to make saints.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I can’t agree. When I sin, I know it’s wrong, and I know that what the Church teaches is right. Still I persist.

I can’t agree with this either. If you know the Church is right, why sin in the first place? A sin must have consent. If you consent to doing something against what the Church teaches, then how can you conclusively say you agree with the Church?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Sorry friend…BUT,

Your idea that one can’t sin and be a member of the CC is not biblical, is not Catholic, and I’m not even sure if its Christian?

I think you misunderstood my statement. I am refuting the claims by people here that only those who continue to accept the teaching of the Church can call themselves Catholics. The whole point of the Church on earth is to heal our spiritual wounds, and that includes pride which makes us refuse to accept the wisdom of the Church. I am not suggesting that sinners are not members of the Catholic Church or can never be. No. In fact I’m saying that all of us are sinners. When we sin we go against the teaching of the Church willfully (if we didn’t will it, it is not a sin). And all in the Church are sinners. Therefore its wrong to question if one is Catholic based on their belief on a few issues because we have shown with our sins that we too have issues accepting all teachings of the Church.

Have I made it clear enough?

 

[ConstantineTG]

The job of correction and rebuke falls primarily to the leadership of the Church. With the exception of our family and close friends, we have not been placed in a position of authority over or repsonsibility for other Catholics salvation.

It’s one thing to correct your children whom you have been given authority over, or to gently correct your spouse to whom you are responsible. I have even grabbed a friend by the scruff of his neck and said, “Are you freaking kidding me? You are a lector at Church and you are having sex outside of marriage with a woman with three kids???” But that was a very close friend, and I could do so with a clear conscience. But that is where God has placed me. He has not placed me in a position of responsibility over anyone else.

Half the effort spent correcting and rebuking others, who we don’t even know and if we were honest would admit that we don’t really care about, should be spent instead on our own gluttony, lack of trust in God, and inability to follow his rules. Instead we get on websites and point out the faults of others.

If there are so many sinners out there, then I would think that the best place to be would be on one’s knees praying, that way you won’t get hit when the lightening bolts start flying.

-Tim-

Christ asks all of us to admonish the sinner. It is an act of charity. But we cannot say who is or who isn’t Catholic. When we are baptized, then we are members of Christ’s Church. All of us sin in different ways. Some sin with pride, and with this pride they cannot accept teaching of the Church, thinking they know better. How is that sin any worse than the other grave sins? We all need healing.

 

[Erethorn]

As you can see, my religious affiliation is “Cafeteria Catholic”.

What does that mean ? It means that I agree and I believe in most of the things the Church teaches, but I cannot agree on all of them.

I’ve started a thread a while ago, expresing my doubts about the infailibility of the Church, especially regarding the teaching of EENS, and, to date, I cannot be convinced that the Church has not changed it’s teaching on the subject.

It’s not an act of defiance, but one of intelectual honesty.

I still believe, though, that the majority of the teaching is right, moreso than any other denomination or religion.

Where should I go then ? What should I call myself ? I believe 90% of the official teaching of the Catholic Church, but I can’t call myself Catholic because I don’t believe, I can’t believe and I won’t believe the other 10 % ?

I can’t call myself Protestant or Eastern Orthodox, because I believe in the Papacy, purgatory and other “core” Catholic teachings.

I can’t call myself anything other than Christian, because I believe in Jesus as the Christ.

What should I call myself then ?

 

[CMatt25]

As you can see, my religious affiliation is “Cafeteria Catholic”.

What does that mean ? It means that I agree and I believe in most of the things the Church teaches, but I cannot agree on all of them.

I’ve started a thread a while ago, expresing my doubts about the infailibility of the Church, especially regarding the teaching of EENS, and, to date, I cannot be convinced that the Church has not changed it’s teaching on the subject.

It’s not an act of defiance, but one of intelectual honesty.

I still believe, though, that the majority of the teaching is right, moreso than any other denomination or religion.

Where should I go then ? What should I call myself ? I believe 90% of the official teaching of the Catholic Church, but I can’t call myself Catholic because I don’t believe, I can’t believe and I won’t believe the other 10 % ?

I can’t call myself Protestant or Eastern Orthodox, because I believe in the Papacy, purgatory and other “core” Catholic teachings.

I can’t call myself anything other than Christian, because I believe in Jesus as the Christ.

What should I call myself then ?

Why can’t you call yourself a Catholic? Catholic teaching calls you a Catholic.

 

[Lui]

Even if they are considered Catholic by name…a “Catholic” who dies in a state of mortal sin, and I believe outright rebellion to our doctrine is so, (and disagreeing with something being mortal sin won’t reduce your imputability I don’t think), will be cast into hell. Not all who call themselves Catholic will be in heaven. Matthew 7 makes this clear…not all who harken Lord Lord shall enter but only those who DO the will of the Father

How do you know that?

Only God shall know the heart at the moment any of us take our last breaths.

Amen:thumbsup:

I have a question regarding this topic: does a Catholic HAVE to know ALL the Church’s teachings? I mean how many Catholics really know ALL teachings and really understand them all?