Why do people who say they are Catholic continue to say so when they do not follow the teachings of the Catholic church?

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LDNCatholic said:
You cannot support abortion and be a good Catholic. Same as for all other mortal sins.
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The where does that leave 99.9999999% of all Catholics who sit in the pews? Are we not sinners?

We forget that we are made of clay, broken and held together with staples by God’s grace and that the Church is a hospital for sinners. Are none of us “Good Catholics” or do those on this thread never sin? None of us are worth of God’s forgiveness and any merit we have is from Christ, not our own. The rocks don’t sin but we sin - the rocks have more merit than us.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
The where does that leave 99.9999999% of all Catholics who sit in the pews? Are we not sinners?
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Yep
TimothyH said:
We forget that we are made of clay, broken and held together with staples by God’s grace and that the Church is a hospital for sinners. Are none of us “Good Catholics” or do those on this thread never sin? None of us are worth of God’s forgiveness and any merit we have is from Christ, not our own. The rocks don’t sin but we sin - the rocks have more merit than us. -Tim-
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I’m certainly not a good Catholic. Those who willfully ignore Church teaching and intentionally head the other way certainly aren’t either.
 
Simple. Identity. We all need a sense of identity. So we go what we’re comfortable with;)
 
Up here in Quebec, most of the Catholics I know call themselves Catholic but when you speak to them they are clearly Catholic mostly by association.

The label “Catholic” can be divided into three categories:
  1. those who take on the title by association as in their family is Catholic so they are Catholic but when asked basic questions such as do they believe in God, who is Jesus, why did he die on a cross, who is Mary, what is a sacrament, most in this category will not have an answer. They don’t realize that Catholic is also a branch of Christianity. Their lives are clearly not Christian. I would say this accounts for about 50% I know
  2. those who call themselves Catholic will attend mass once in a blue moon, and pray whenever. They will say that they believe in God, pray to the saints etc but are not really active inside the Catholic Church. 40%
  3. you have the active practicing Catholics who attend mass regularly, they have active Christian values such as they know practice what the church considers right from wrong. They may not totally agree with everything but they are active inside the church and they fight for what is right. etc This accounts for about 10% and it also includes the converts as well.
I think we as Christians as well as Catholics need to be witnesses to the people in sections 1 and 2. If the church instill reeducation programs for the people inside these groups, they will come back. Plus at up here in Quebec where the church did a number on some of the french speaking communities, if we were to also instill healing and forgiving programs, people will see that Catholicism is not just about attending mass every week, nor does the church want to control you but it is about having a personal relationship with Christ as well as with each other.

People will come back. We need to witness to the Catholics by association and encourage them to come back.
 
TimothyH said:
The where does that leave 99.9999999% of all Catholics who sit in the pews? Are we not sinners?

We forget that we are made of clay, broken and held together with staples by God’s grace and that the Church is a hospital for sinners. Are none of us “Good Catholics” or do those on this thread never sin? None of us are worth of God’s forgiveness and any merit we have is from Christ, not our own. The rocks don’t sin but we sin - the rocks have more merit than us.

-Tim-
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Those who reject the clear teaching of the Catholic Church on moral issues such as abortion and persist in participating or supporting this practice place themselves in grave spiritual danger and, in fact, are excommunicated from the Church by taking this postion. This is quite different from someone falling, even in this area, and then realizing their error and asking for forgiveness. You are correct that we are all sinners and the Church offers the means for reconciliation with God and His Church. I go to confession quite frequently, not because I am holy, but because I am a sinner. If, however, I persist in my sins and do not seek reconcilliation, I have rejected God’s grace and must live with the consequences.
 
Slinger said:
This is confusing to me. Nobody forces someone to be part of a particular religion. If you disagree with parts of the teachings why stay in it? I ask this because I am not a supporter of religion because I do not believe in legalism in one’s walk with Christ. However, there are obviously many people who need the guidance of a religion for their walk. That’s their personal choice and I would not condemn or judge it.

But, why chose to remain a Catholic if you disagree or debate the teachings of the Catholic church?

Thanks for any responses!
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You would do better to point at the specific behaviors out of line with the catechism taught by the Church than leave yet another open invitation for sibling rivalry arguments that followed suit in this thread.

How is it a choice to remain any label you could name when your maker is present in your heart? The only choice remaining is to refuse to acknowledge that presence, correct? Anglicans are Catholics unwilling to abide what precisely? Man made trappings? The loyalty of Christians lies not with a figurehead or what’s in a name, but to Jesus Christ and that higher calling. Period.
 
LDNCatholic said:
I’m certainly not a good Catholic. Those who willfully ignore Church teaching and intentionally head the other way certainly aren’t either.
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What happens when it’s the Church willfully ignores the teachings of Jesus in deference to Paul? Ignores the full meaning of one of the ten commandments to facilitate purvey prejudice and wrongful punitive measures in policy? When the law man grossly failing to understand the nature of a crime beats up the wrong man?

If your solution to every problem is taking the shotgun off the wall, seems to me it’s not the rest of the world with a discipline problem, but yourself. Take your own medicine TYVM.
 
GraceSofia said:
I’ll answer what I think you are saying by quoting Archbishop Chaput:

“If you don’t accept what the Church teaches on issues of faith and morals you can’t claim to be a Catholic.”
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Yet the Church claims them to be. 🤷
 
You could say the same thing about being a Christian. Either way, it gives the Church and Christianity a worse reputation. Ugh
 
I think a lot of you are misreading the OP. He’s not asking why the Catholic Church doesn’t simply expel those who don’t hew to its teachings; he’s asking why people who reject the Church’s teachings continue to identify as a Catholic even when their are religions out there that are better suited to them. In other words, why would you want to be a Catholic if you reject Catholicism?

I dunno the answer. I suppose there’s a culture to Catholicism that people want to continue identifying with, though even this is greatly reduced in modern times. Perhaps it’s the sense of community and camaraderie with the parish. Perhaps just to thumb their noses at the Church itself. Perhaps it’s just inertia.

For politicians who clearly reject all the Church’s social teachings, it’s probably just cynical calculation mixed with gross ignorance.
 
sw85 said:
I think a lot of you are misreading the OP. He’s not asking why the Catholic Church doesn’t simply expel those who don’t hew to its teachings; he’s asking why people who reject the Church’s teachings continue to identify as a Catholic even when their are religions out there that are better suited to them. In other words, why would you want to be a Catholic if you reject Catholicism?

I dunno the answer. I suppose there’s a culture to Catholicism that people want to continue identifying with, though even this is greatly reduced in modern times. Perhaps it’s the sense of community and camaraderie with the parish. Perhaps just to thumb their noses at the Church itself. Perhaps it’s just inertia.

For politicians who clearly reject all the Church’s social teachings, it’s probably just cynical calculation mixed with gross ignorance.
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You hit the nail on the head in reading into my question…thanks for a thoughtful answer! It’s hard to know exactly how to word something without thinking of all of the perspectives people could take on a typed question. I’m definitely not making accusations against anyone! I only mentioned Catholics for obvious reasons, this is a Catholic forum! I absolutely agree with an earlier poster that lots of people say they are part of a religion or faith and without living it. I’m just curious especially when I see so many debates from people who have “Roman Catholic”, " Catholic", etc. on this forum who disagree with Catholic teachings and it just made me wonder why they still identify themselves as Catholic.

Oh, I’m a “she” btw! 😉 Another thing that is tough to communicate in type. I appreciate everyone’s feedback. This forum is a great way to learn and discuss.
 
=Slinger;8129197]This is confusing to me. Nobody forces someone to be part of a particular religion. If you disagree with parts of the teachings why stay in it? I ask this because I am not a supporter of religion because I do not believe in legalism in one’s walk with Christ. However, there are obviously many people who need the guidance of a religion for their walk. That’s their personal choice and I would not condemn or judge it.
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But, why chose to remain a Catholic if you disagree or debate the teachings of the Catholic church?
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Thanks for any responses!
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There are simple answers like force of habit. Others because they still view themselves as catholics even if they are NOT praticing what they calim to be.

The main reasons are more profound: Poor or even no catechesis over a long period of time; not feeling connected to the Novus ordo;[New Mass] not agreeing [NOT that its there option to do so] with Chruch and Gods Moral teachings and some like yourself seem to think they actually have a voice, a choice, an option to tell GOD how they will or will not Worship Him.

SORRY; but that is NOT the ONLY and necessary road to salvation. Some have brought the “entire Satan package,” … “You are the only god you need to worry about.” Sounds about as silly as it is**.:o

May God grant you His Wisdom and Understanding 🙂

God Bless,
Pat
 
Yep

Some think they know better than their forefathers. Instead of conforming themselves to the image of Christ as passed down to us through the Church they are attempting to conform the Church to the image of themselves.

They are the wolves that cause our indignation.
 
The answer depends on the individual. Some people really think that they ‘know better’; some are ‘culturally Catholic’, some want to ‘straddle the fence’, some want to make changes ‘from the inside’, some just don’t understand, some don’t want to understand, and some really want not just to ‘change’ but to actually destroy.

Unfortunately, we can’t know what is in the individual’s heart. And also, a person may ‘change’ not just once but many times in his/her life. The sweet devout 8 year old may become an atheist at 16, ‘revert’ into devoutness at 20, ‘question’ at 24, revert to atheism at 30, actively oppose at 35, briefly revert to ‘cultural Catholicism’ at 45, swing briefly to devout at 50, question at 55, revert to atheism at 60. . .etc. etc. The reasons for ‘departure’ from faith could be different each time.

So just because Mr. X or Ms. Z right now are baptized Catholics who are denying some or all Catholic teachings right now July 2011 doesn’t mean that a week, a month, or a year from now they’ll be doing exactly the same thing.

We can always hope for them to see the light.
 
Slinger said:
You hit the nail on the head in reading into my question…thanks for a thoughtful answer! It’s hard to know exactly how to word something without thinking of all of the perspectives people could take on a typed question. I’m definitely not making accusations against anyone! I only mentioned Catholics for obvious reasons, this is a Catholic forum! I absolutely agree with an earlier poster that lots of people say they are part of a religion or faith and without living it. I’m just curious especially when I see so many debates from people who have “Roman Catholic”, " Catholic", etc. on this forum who disagree with Catholic teachings and it just made me wonder why they still identify themselves as Catholic.

Oh, I’m a “she” btw! 😉 Another thing that is tough to communicate in type. I appreciate everyone’s feedback. This forum is a great way to learn and discuss.
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I’m sure you will get many different answers from people because everyone is different. I personally don’t agree with a few teachings, while I believe in the majority of teachings. If I were to go, where would I go? There is no other Church that knows the Eucharist, and the Trinity, and the Immaculate Conception, and the Assumption, and Reconcilation, etc. Something is always missing with the other sects. While some folks on this forum would say I shouldn’t be Catholic, that’s merely their own opinion…and frankly, everyone has one 😉 In fact, I’m the most conservative person I know in real life. 🤷 Though there are some here who say I’m dissenting for one reason or another (come on folks, it’s always something 😛 ), the priests I have talked to in person say that I am in communion with the Church. So, really, though online forums are great learning tools and great reasources, you have to talk stuff you read on online forums with a grain of salt. So, I identify myself as a Catholic, because I am Catholic. It’s the indelible mark thing…
 
I have seen a lot of this in the Church, unfortunately. I say unfortunately because it causes a lot of confusion and makes us less united when we are supposed to be ONE, Holy, Catholic (universal) and Apostolic Church.
I think there are a variety of reasons out there, with the ultimate reason being we are human and humans are messy. Based on my observations, they are:
  1. Lack of understanding of what the Church really teaches
  2. Desire not to be (or appear to be) unthinking and conformist
  3. Raised Catholic, has disagreements but doesn’t want to leave the Church OR
  4. Is a convert to Catholicism and loves the Church but disagrees on some things which he/she doesn’t feel are a “big deal” to disagree about (used to be me)
  5. Does not agree that the Church has the authority to teach infallibly on faith and morals
  6. Doesn’t want to be held accountable for his/her actions
    Or a combination of any of these (except for 3 and 4, which cannot both be true if it is only one person).
    Hope this makes sense!
 
jessicaj said:
Based on my observations, they are:
  1. Lack of understanding of what the Church really teaches
  2. Desire not to be (or appear to be) unthinking and conformist
  3. Raised Catholic, has disagreements but doesn’t want to leave the Church OR
  4. Is a convert to Catholicism and loves the Church but disagrees on some things which he/she doesn’t feel are a “big deal” to disagree about (used to be me)
  5. Does not agree that the Church has the authority to teach infallibly on faith and morals
  6. Doesn’t want to be held accountable for his/her actions
    Or a combination of any of these (except for 3 and 4, which cannot both be true if it is only one person).
    Hope this makes sense!
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Excellent observations!!
 
I see the usual typical assumptions being made such as lack of understanding, lack of proper catechism, simply wanting to thumb their noses. I personally have never met a Catholic who calls themselves a Catholic to thumb their nose. :rolleyes: But besides the fact that it is a teaching that they are Catholic without quotation marks, perhaps for some they simply might not be certain if the Catholic Church is right or not. So people hang on. And God shall know their hearts when they take their last breaths.
 
🤷

It is very hard to completely leave something that you were taught to believe your whole life - even if you stop believing in it.

I have a cousin who when asked what religion he is says Catholic. He is a cradle Catholic. He took the classes and everything. He just doesn’t care about religion anymore. He says he believes in a God but doesn’t really care, so I guess he should say he is Agnostic but he doesn’t. He is terrified of what his family would think if he told them that (even though they know he hasn’t gone to mass in years). He doesn’t follow the teachings of the Church nor does he care about them. He is very pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro premarital sex, etc.

I think it is a bunch of things. You don’t want to disappoint anyone, you are familiar with it, you don’t think it is hurting anyone so why not say you are Catholic, you weren’t properly taught about your religion, etc. The same can go for any Christian denomination and any other religion really.
 
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