Why do progressive Catholics stay in the Church?

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There is a thread sort of like this in the Back Fence section. It’s called Why do Liberals stay in the Catholic Church?
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
OK. What to do?
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LOL! Oh, nothing-by all means start a new conversation here…I was just trying to say that someone else had already asked the question.

My 12 cents, for what little it’s worth, is that many liberals, like many Catholic conservatives, mean well and try to do the right thing. They just might be misguided. Like I said in the other thread, What is a liberal catholic? Does it make you progressive/liberal to want woman priests? What about Communion in the hand? A guitar or folk service at mass? What if your pro-choice, but never voted for a candiate who is, never was party to an abortion,

See what I’m getting at? I think it’s very hard to call someone a progressive/liberal or a traditionalist/conservative in the Catholic sense.
 
Rascalking said:
LOL! Oh, nothing-by all means start a new conversation here…I was just trying to say that someone else had already asked the question.

My 12 cents, for what little it’s worth, is that many liberals, like many Catholic conservatives, mean well and try to do the right thing. They just might be misguided. Like I said in the other thread, What is a liberal catholic? Does it make you progressive/liberal to want woman priests? What about Communion in the hand? A guitar or folk service at mass? What if your pro-choice, but never voted for a candiate who is, never was party to an abortion,

See what I’m getting at? I think it’s very hard to call someone a progressive/liberal or a traditionalist/conservative in the Catholic sense.
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Did you read the article? I was curious about your reaction to it. BTW I’m an English major, too.
 
I wouldn’t say it’s just liberals. I’ve wondered often why so many of the Catholics I know are Catholics as they disregard any number of teachings and disagree on a multitude of things. The answer I get most often is just that it’s a cultural thing or a matter of inertia. This is where I go because this is where I’ve gone.
 
Lutheranteach said:
IThe answer I get most often is just that it’s a cultural thing or a matter of inertia. This is where I go because this is where I’ve gone.
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I think personal identity plays a big role too. Being Catholic is part of who they are, and that means not being Protestant. It may involve family tradition/loyalty and social networks of friends and family, as well.
 
I dont mind liberal Catholics so much that go to mass and put in an effort and love Christ. What I do have a problem with are people that dissent from the church, never attend mass and have never received all the sacraments, never try to follow church teachings on sexual morality yet they call themselves Catholic. I dont think you can call yourself a Catholic and never practice your faith. It doesnt matter who you are. If you dont practice your faith it is better that you didnt have any faith whatsoever since it would be more honest as to how you really feel about the religion.
 
I hope it’s ok if I just post what I did on the other thread unless the threads should be combined. But here’s why I’ve stayed to date, sometimes in struggle, sometimes with sadness even though I know there are a few churches out there where I may fit in better.

My Baptism made me a member and despite whatever label is in vogue at any particular time for others to pin on me, cafeteria, dissenting, lapsed, nominal, non-practicing, cultural, what have you, I am still a Catholic according to the Church.

I didn’t agree with GWB but I was still American and did not leave my country.

The nuns who supported healthcare when the bishops did not are part of the CC. And there are other good works of Christ being done in the CC in serving the poor, the sick, the hungry, the homeless. Working for peace. Those are things which I believe make up the Gospel of our Lord as He taught on the Mount and in Matthew 25.

I am not yet ready to leave the Church only to the conservatives. I know JP2 stacked the Cardinal deck but still hope there is always a chance of a surprise papal election and another John 23 appearing someday.

I don’t declare myself infallible. I might not have eveything right. I have had some “what if” moments in the past. But at the same time I am not certain any church has everything right.

I do not know where He will lead me tomorrow. I merely strive to live according to my conscience with the hope in He Who binds us being stronger than any disagreements.

Hope this helps! Peace.
 
I was born and raised a Catholic and raised quite strictly under Benedictine and then Jesuit tutelage - I had no problem with that but at the same time I never came to grips with Catholicism / Christianity.

I dont go to Church and I am fairly certain that I do not take much notice of Catholic Dogma - I think I follow a reasonable life in terms of the humanist values contained within Catholic Dogma.

For those who might question my right to continue to recognise myself as A Catholic (and I do) I would say it has nothing to do with any human being other than the Pope.

Born a Catholic, die a Catholic.
 
Rascalking said:
LOL! Oh, nothing-by all means start a new conversation here…I was just trying to say that someone else had already asked the question.

My 12 cents, for what little it’s worth, is that many liberals, like many Catholic conservatives, mean well and try to do the right thing. They just might be misguided. Like I said in the other thread, What is a liberal catholic? Does it make you progressive/liberal to want woman priests? What about Communion in the hand? A guitar or folk service at mass? What if your pro-choice, but never voted for a candiate who is, never was party to an abortion,

See what I’m getting at? I think it’s very hard to call someone a progressive/liberal or a traditionalist/conservative in the Catholic sense.
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I think that we have mixed up political and religious terms in such a way that we have caused confusion. On the one hand, people in general in our society seem to have *replaced *religion with politics altogether, which has led to people talking about “progressive” Catholics and “conservative” Catholics related only to their politics (as the term “conservative Catholic” has a specific meaning related only to religion for some, which only makes things even more confusing! But I will leave that out.)

All too many progressive Catholics *reject *one or more of the truths of the Church. When I hear the question, why do liberal or progressive Catholics stay in the Church, it is these latter that I think the question refers to–those who allow their Catholicism to be run over by the (left-leaning) political philosophies of the day.

I believe there can be apparent progressives who believe everything the Church teaches and who live a Catholic life (receiving the sacraments, following the teachings) but are these people then truly progressive? I think that certain aspects of the liberal/progressive philosophies are incompatible with Catholicism.

The result is that to me the question does revolve around the question Why do so-called Catholics like Senator Pelosi, VP Biden, Sr Joan Chichester, people who very obviously disagree in their lives and because of their politics with some teachings of the Church, stay in the Church?

Because they want to change the Church. They believe that they are right, they believe that the Church belongs equally to them, and they believe that staying and working for the changes they advocate is the right thing to do. Just as the woman said in the article when Americans back in the liberal/progressive Camelot days of the VietNam War stayed in the US and worked to change the policy of the US government, so these people stay and try to remake the Church in their own image.
 
CMatt25 said:
I hope it’s ok if I just post what I did on the other thread unless the threads should be combined. But here’s why I’ve stayed to date, sometimes in struggle, sometimes with sadness even though I know there are a few churches out there where I may fit in better.

My Baptism made me a member and despite whatever label is in vogue at any particular time for others to pin on me, cafeteria, dissenting, lapsed, nominal, non-practicing, cultural, what have you, I am still a Catholic according to the Church.

I didn’t agree with GWB but I was still American and did not leave my country.

The nuns who supported healthcare when the bishops did not are part of the CC. And there are other good works of Christ being done in the CC in serving the poor, the sick, the hungry, the homeless. Working for peace. Those are things which I believe make up the Gospel of our Lord as He taught on the Mount and in Matthew 25.

I am not yet ready to leave the Church only to the conservatives. I know JP2 stacked the Cardinal deck but still hope there is always a chance of a surprise papal election and another John 23 appearing someday.

I don’t declare myself infallible. I might not have eveything right. I have had some “what if” moments in the past. But at the same time I am not certain any church has everything right.

I do not know where He will lead me tomorrow. I merely strive to live according to my conscience with the hope in He Who binds us being stronger than any disagreements.

Hope this helps! Peace.
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What a great answer - bless you:thumbsup:
 
Doc_Keele said:
What a great answer - bless you:thumbsup:
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You list yourself as a Christian rather than as a Catholic, so I assume that you are not Catholic. The answer was not great, because it was not Catholic. It is not sufficient to have once been baptized to please Christ, nor is it sufficient to help the poor while allowing the most poor to be killed. Obedience and belief in the the teachings of the Church are an essential part of being Catholic, and these two parts of being Catholic are more than ignored in this post.
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
Did you read the article? I was curious about your reaction to it. BTW I’m an English major, too.
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The parable in the article was a mean characterization of orthodox Catholics.

I agree with the author that we have all been wounded by the abuse scandals; they make it hard for Catholics all across the spectrum of thought to answer the “Why do you stay?” question.

I guess my problem is with people who emphasize that the people, not the hierarchy, are the Church. That somehow tries to turn the Church into a democracy, which it is not.
 
Doc_Keele said:
So describing oneself as Christian precludes being Catholic? :hmmm:
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Not at all, for 1500 years, the word Christian meant Catholic. The words were synonymous.

However, given some of your responses here, I thought that I would take the charitable approach and assume that they arose from ignorance of the Catholic faith due to being a non-Catholic Christian rather than a Catholic Christian.
 
St_Francis said:
Not at all, for 1500 years, the word Christian meant Catholic. The words were synonymous.

However, given some of your responses here, I thought that I would take the charitable approach and assume that they arose from ignorance of the Catholic faith due to being a non-Catholic Christian rather than a Catholic Christian.
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Oh the Schism never happened?:eek:
 
Rascalking said:
LOL! Oh, nothing-by all means start a new conversation here…I was just trying to say that someone else had already asked the question.

My 12 cents, for what little it’s worth, is that many liberals, like many Catholic conservatives, mean well and try to do the right thing. They just might be misguided. Like I said in the other thread, What is a liberal catholic? Does it make you progressive/liberal to want woman priests? What about Communion in the hand? A guitar or folk service at mass? What if your pro-choice, but never voted for a candiate who is, never was party to an abortion,

See what I’m getting at? I think it’s very hard to call someone a progressive/liberal or a traditionalist/conservative in the Catholic sense.
Click to expand...
Well first and foremost, when it comes to ones faith I don’t like the terms “Conservitive” or “Progressive”. These have certain (in some cases specific to the USA) political implications which in many cases are neither here nor there in terms of ones faith in Jesus Christ.

Now I’ll say that I really only skimmed the attached article, but I have a problem with the view point:
When I answer, I insist that the terms be defined properly. It is an error of vocabulary to assume that “the Church” is a direct synonym for “the hierarchy,” “the bishops,” “the Vatican.” Those of us of a certain age remember traveling abroad during the Vietnam years when we would be asked, “How can you still call yourself an American?” Our answer was: we are not the White House. We are not the Pentagon. We are the people protesting; America is larger than your words suggest.
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This is an outright rejection of the fact that Christ did in fact leave an authoratative, infallible teaching institution here on earth to guide us into all truth of the faith. Again, I didn’t read the whole thing, so maybe I’m missing something very important which would alter my feelings towards what the author is saying, but taking the above at face value I’d say you’re starting down the completely wrong path.

One must sit and think what it is they actually do believe. Do you beleive in Christ? Do you beleive he was God? Well if you do, then why do question in this way (pretty dangerously close to rejecting) his teachings that:
He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.
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and
17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
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This isn’t the to say one should not recognize the need to reform when it presents it’s self, and certainly there is a lot of need to reform on many fronts in our Church right now. But there is a great and powerful difference between starting from a position of antaginism and “protest” (hey, almost sounds like “protest-ant”) and taking the position of loyalty, belief, but recognition of the need to reform, and exhortation to do so.

Edit
That said, I don’t want anyone to take this as me saying these people should leave and go be Episcipailian… To the contrary, this is my exhortation to anyone who sympathises with such views to consider whether or not you your self, are also in need of reform.
 
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