Why do protestant ministers where the collars of a priest?

[twopekinguys]

So - the next time you are pulled over by a guy in a shirt with a badge on it and asked to get out of your car and into his - are you just going to do that without question and TRUST the uniform?
Not a good question, since I AM a member of law enforcement. But I believe in trust over suspicion.

Why do we respect a man dressed in clerical garb? We respect them because they (may) have a role of authority. Where does this man get his authority FROM? Most people respect a man in clerical dress, because they don’t want to risk an unexpected lightning bolt. As far as a member of the clergy, their authority is not symbolized by their collar, but by their stole. Their stole is their authority to teach, and that has been passed down through the ages.

I never said anything about being disrespectful or rude to anyone.

I never said you did, did I?
~Liza

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Honey(I am Southern… ),

A little advice from your sister in Christ…Step away from the computer and ask yourself if what you are doing on the forum is edifying the Body of Christ…

God Bless!

Only if you step away first and ask yourself why you’re in a different denomination other than the church Christ established.

 

[O.S.Luke]

I’ve worn a clerical collar since I was ordained - usually, a neckband/Anglican collar. Most of the folks who wear tab collars around here are Catholic or Lutheran. The Methodists and Episcopalians tend to wear neckband collars. I wear it to the hospitals, during worship, and at public functions when I am representing the Church in official capacity. It does draw a few stares when I am riding on a motorcycle, though. Around the office, all of the staff wear polo shirts with the church’s logo and name on it.

The history of the clerical collar is interesting, murky, and at times sordid. But it is more a practical matter of function and dress than any kind of theological/doctrinal statement. No one’s ever run up to me and said, “Hey - you believe in original sin and the sacraments, don’t you?”

I did have someone run up to me at a hospital and ask me to administer unction to a dying father. I told them I wasn’t Catholic, but they said, “You’ll do.”

 

[lizaanne]

I did have someone run up to me at a hospital and ask me to administer unction to a dying father. I told them I wasn’t Catholic, but they said, “You’ll do.”

How horribly sad for that dying man that he did not receive the sacrament.

~Liza

 

[lizaanne]

twopekinguys - it is most annoying that you write within a quote box, it makes it very difficult to carry on a conversation that way - I can’t use the quote button when you do that.

Anyway -
You make my point for me! Would you want someone running around wearing your uniform and pulling people over, because someone thinks they have an authority they do not posess?

You also said: Their stole is their authority to teach, and that has been passed down through the ages.

SOOOOO - down through the ages from???.. The Catholic Church!!! HOWEVER, they do NOT own that authority, it has not been handed down to them. They do NOT possess the right to claim that authority when they reject the ONLY Church Christ left us through His Apostles.

~Liza

 

[O.S.Luke]

How horribly sad for that dying man that he did not receive the sacrament.

~Liza

There wasn’t a Catholic priest to be found. I would like to think that God’s grace in this case was sufficient - poor ole Protestant that I am in your eyes.

 

[RevNeal]

Is that the best you can do? An answer like that just shows how you don’t know why you are not in the church Jesus Christ established, or perhaps you have a more broader answer that you cannot say here. This question has nothing to do with an argument, but you will make it seem this way…typical…

Not at all. I simply don’t believe that going any further with you on this topic will be at all useful to me, to you, or to anyone else who might be reading along. You clearly have a problem with the concept of concatenation, otherwise you would have noticed in my historical sketch that I tied the UMC into the Religion which Jesus started and through the institutional Church of which you are member. Like most other United Methodists, I view the UMC as being very much a part of the greater-church catholic, which Jesus founded and of which Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are principle branches … with Anglicanism flowing from Roman Catholicism and Methodism flowing from Anglicanism. Essentially, we think of ourselves as Protestant Catholics. As such, the UMC owes a huge debt of gratitude to our Roman Catholic heritage for our ecclesial, theological, and practical identity. Part of this inheritance, received through our Anglican roots, is the wearing of clericals and vestments. Wether or not you can agree with our understanding is beside the point; it would appear that you refuse to at least recognize that this is how we view ourselves … and that, because we view ourselves this way, your question is fairly meaningless to us.

That being said … I’ll offer this much of a response. I am not a Roman Catholic for several cultural, theological, and circumstantial reasons … and I know what those reasons are. My theological differences with the Roman Catholic Church are not great, but they do exist and I would have to reconcile myself regarding them. Similarly, I would have to accept certain of its social positions with which I currently differ. While do-able, I haven’t had substantial reasoning presented to me to convince me that I need to do it. In other words, it’s not that I haven’t given great thought to transferring; I have. But, in order to do that, I would need to be convinced that it was necessary both for my salvation and for the furthering of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I would also need to be assured that my calling to the ordained ministry could be welcomed and fulfilled within the RCC. And, quite frankly, thus far your caustic, combative, arrogant posturing isn’t helping your case any.

 

[twopekinguys]

twopekinguys - it is most annoying that you write within a quote box, it makes it very difficult to carry on a conversation that way - I can’t use the quote button when you do that.

Anyway -
You make my point for me! Would you want someone running around wearing your uniform and pulling people over, because someone thinks they have an authority they do not posess?

You also said: Their stole is their authority to teach, and that has been passed down through the ages.

SOOOOO - down through the ages from???.. The Catholic Church!!! HOWEVER, they do NOT own that authority, it has not been handed down to them. They do NOT possess the right to claim that authority when they reject the ONLY Church Christ left us through His Apostles.

~Liza

Stole, not collar is the authority. We are in a thread about the collar. Now if you want to start a thread about protestants and their use of the stole as their sign of authority, that’s another issue, and a whole new thread.

I don’t see these ministers masquerading as something they aren’t. As I said in my previous post. I have seen cases where protestant ministers wearing a collar have been addressed as “father”, and they have gently and politely corrected the incorrect assumption, but offered their help anyway. Which I think any member of the clergy would do. Especially in emergency situations.

Your comparison with fake law enforcement is flawed, because the person impersonating the police officer has no intention of telling the truth. I don’t see that, and haven’t seen that in my encounters with protestant clergy.

Respectfully, I don’t see how I could have made your point for you.

 

[GKC]

Not at all. I simply don’t believe that going any further with you on this topic will be at all useful to me, to you, or to anyone else who might be reading along. You clearly have a problem with the concept of concatenation, otherwise you would have noticed in my historical sketch that I tied the UMC into the Religion which Jesus started and through the institutional Church of which you are member. Like most other United Methodists, I view the UMC as being very much a part of the greater-church catholic, which Jesus founded and of which Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are principle branches … with Anglicanism flowing from Roman Catholicism and Methodism flowing from Anglicanism. Essentially, we think of ourselves as Protestant Catholics. As such, the UMC owes a huge debt of gratitude to our Roman Catholic heritage for our ecclesial, theological, and practical identity. Part of this inheritance, received through our Anglican roots, is the wearing of clericals and vestments. Wether or not you can agree with our understanding is beside the point; it would appear that you refuse to at least recognize that this is how we view ourselves … and that, because we view ourselves this way, your question is fairly meaningless to us.

That being said … I’ll offer this much of a response. I am not a Roman Catholic for several cultural, theological, and circumstantial reasons … and I know what those reasons are. My theological differences with the Roman Catholic Church are not great, but they do exist and I would have to reconcile myself regarding them. Similarly, I would have to accept certain of its social positions with which I currently differ. While do-able, I haven’t had substantial reasoning presented to me to convince me that I need to do it. In other words, it’s not that I haven’t given great thought to transferring; I have. But, in order to do that, I would need to be convinced that it was necessary both for my salvation and for the furthering of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I would also need to be assured that my calling to the ordained ministry could be welcomed and fulfilled within the RCC. And, quite frankly, thus far your caustic, combative, arrogant posturing isn’t helping your case any.

Welcome to the board, Rev. It is, as you are finding, something of a curate’s egg.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus

 

[twopekinguys]

Not at all. I simply don’t believe that going any further with you on this topic will be at all useful to me, to you, or to anyone else who might be reading along. You clearly have a problem with the concept of concatenation, otherwise you would have noticed in my historical sketch that I tied the UMC into the Religion which Jesus started and through the institutional Church of which you are member. Like most other United Methodists, I view the UMC as being very much a part of the greater-church catholic, which Jesus founded and of which Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are principle branches … with Anglicanism flowing from Roman Catholicism and Methodism flowing from Anglicanism. Essentially, we think of ourselves as Protestant Catholics. As such, the UMC owes a huge debt of gratitude to our Roman Catholic heritage for our ecclesial, theological, and practical identity. Part of this inheritance, received through our Anglican roots, is the wearing of clericals and vestments. Wether or not you can agree with our understanding is beside the point; it would appear that you refuse to at least recognize that this is how we view ourselves … and that, because we view ourselves this way, your question is fairly meaningless to us.

That being said … I’ll offer this much of a response. I am not a Roman Catholic for several cultural, theological, and circumstantial reasons … and I know what those reasons are. My theological differences with the Roman Catholic Church are not great, but they do exist and I would have to reconcile myself regarding them. Similarly, I would have to accept certain of its social positions with which I currently differ. While do-able, I haven’t had substantial reasoning presented to me to convince me that I need to do it. In other words, it’s not that I haven’t given great thought to transferring; I have. But, in order to do that, I would need to be convinced that it was necessary both for my salvation and for the furthering of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I would also need to be assured that my calling to the ordained ministry could be welcomed and fulfilled within the RCC. And, quite frankly, thus far your caustic, combative, arrogant posturing isn’t helping your case any.

Bravo!! Well said.

 

[Follow_Yeshua]

How horribly sad for that dying man that he did not receive the sacrament.

~Liza

Are you serious? C’mon sister…
I think it was noble of that Pastor to put down what he was doing to help a family in need. Very Christlike. Very.

Now my question is what do you think happened to this dying man being denied his sacrament? What can he gain?

 

[RevNeal]

Thank you very much for your kind words and tone. I certainly understand why you cannot acknowledge me as clergy, and am not offended thereby.

 

[lizaanne]

Are you serious? C’mon sister…
I think it was noble of that Pastor to put down what he was doing to help a family in need. Very Christlike. Very.

Now my question is what do you think happened to this dying man being denied his sacrament? What can he gain?

He should have been HONEST and specifically said the he can not administer the sacraments of the Catholic Church, but he can pray for the man’s soul.

I do not know what happened to the man - that is not my place to know, only God knows that. But if the family in ANY way thinks this man received the sacrament then they have been horribly deceived.

Perhaps O.S. Luke can fill in the gaps for us.

~Liza

 

[RevNeal]

Thank you VERY much. I greatly appreciate your words and perspective. And, you are correct, the many Roman Catholics with whom I’ve cooperated in inner-city ministries (among others) have always been gracious and friendly. Indeed, I count several as being among my very best friends and we consider each other colleagues in ministry. What we’ve discovered – as the UMC and the RCC have discovered through the Joint International Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Commission – is that far more in the Faith unites us than divides us. Look at the Joint Declaration On The Doctrine of Justification that was signed between the Lutheran World Federation and the Roman Catholic Church in 1998.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

The UMC signed onto it in 2006:

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=45571

 

[RevNeal]

Greg, you are wasting your time with charity and apologetics with OTCA. She is a bully, picks and chooses the quotes she wants to hear, and plagiarizes unashamedly and often. Thankfully, most Catholics here are not like her. But she does give the ones here a bad name.

Thanks for the perspective … I’ve gathered that OTCA is just looking to pick a fight. Sadly, she (she?) must have a lot of free time on her hands.

 

[twopekinguys]

He should have been HONEST and specifically said the he can not administer the sacraments of the Catholic Church, but he can pray for the man’s soul.

I do not know what happened to the man - that is not my place to know, only God knows that. But if the family in ANY way thinks this man received the sacrament then they have been horribly deceived.

Perhaps O.S. Luke can fill in the gaps for us.

~Liza

Bolding mine, but looking at his post, he specifically states he told them he wasn’t Catholic. Assuming the person that came running up to him was Catholic, and ***knew ***their faith, they would know that he couldn’t give unction.

Now, there are those cases in hospitals where people are dying, and haven’t adhered to any faith at all, but will grab the first priest/minister they can find.

Based on his statement below, I don’t believe they were deceived.

I’ve worn a clerical collar since I was ordained - usually, a neckband/Anglican collar. Most of the folks who wear tab collars around here are Catholic or Lutheran. The Methodists and Episcopalians tend to wear neckband collars. I wear it to the hospitals, during worship, and at public functions when I am representing the Church in official capacity. It does draw a few stares when I am riding on a motorcycle, though. Around the office, all of the staff wear polo shirts with the church’s logo and name on it.

The history of the clerical collar is interesting, murky, and at times sordid. But it is more a practical matter of function and dress than any kind of theological/doctrinal statement. No one’s ever run up to me and said, “Hey - you believe in original sin and the sacraments, don’t you?”

I did have someone run up to me at a hospital and ask me to administer unction to a dying father. I told them I wasn’t Catholic, but they said, “You’ll do.”

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Not at all. I simply don’t believe that going any further with you on this topic will be at all useful to me, to you, or to anyone else who might be reading along. You clearly have a problem with the concept of concatenation, otherwise you would have noticed in my historical sketch that I tied the UMC into the Religion which Jesus started and through the institutional Church of which you are member. Like most other United Methodists, I view the UMC as being very much a part of the greater-church catholic, which Jesus founded and of which Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are principle branches … with Anglicanism flowing from Roman Catholicism and Methodism flowing from Anglicanism. Essentially, we think of ourselves as Protestant Catholics. As such, the UMC owes a huge debt of gratitude to our Roman Catholic heritage for our ecclesial, theological, and practical identity. Part of this inheritance, received through our Anglican roots, is the wearing of clericals and vestments. Wether or not you can agree with our understanding is beside the point; it would appear that you refuse to at least recognize that this is how we view ourselves … and that, because we view ourselves this way, your question is fairly meaningless to us.

That being said … I’ll offer this much of a response. I am not a Roman Catholic for several cultural, theological, and circumstantial reasons … and I know what those reasons are. My theological differences with the Roman Catholic Church are not great, but they do exist and I would have to reconcile myself regarding them. Similarly, I would have to accept certain of its social positions with which I currently differ. While do-able, I haven’t had substantial reasoning presented to me to convince me that I need to do it. In other words, it’s not that I haven’t given great thought to transferring; I have. But, in order to do that, I would need to be convinced that it was necessary both for my salvation and for the furthering of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I would also need to be assured that my calling to the ordained ministry could be welcomed and fulfilled within the RCC. And, quite frankly, thus far your caustic, combative, arrogant posturing isn’t helping your case any.

Well with your last statement, (and just because I asked you why you weren’t in the church Christ established), being in the Catholic church has nothing to do with me or any other person. It has to do with Christ and what He teaches.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Thanks for the perspective … I’ve gathered that OTCA is just looking to pick a fight. Sadly, she (she?) must have a lot of free time on her hands.

Actually asking you a simple question was not picking a fight as you say. But I expected this kind of response from a non-Catholic anyway…

 

[Follow_Yeshua]

Actually asking you a simple question was not picking a fight as you say. But I expected this kind of response from a non-Catholic anyway…

I thank God right now and give him thanks and praise that you are not in charge…

Thank You Lord!

 

[Bill_Pick]

Are you serious? C’mon sister…
I think it was noble of that Pastor to put down what he was doing to help a family in need. Very Christlike. Very.

Now my question is what do you think happened to this dying man being denied his sacrament? What can he gain?

Very good point, And the Rev would know the diff.