Why do Protestants accept the NT canon?

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TinaG said:
It seems to me God should get the credit for communicating to us, rather than the Church taking credit for having heard Him. God is infallible. The Church? :nope:
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The two can’t be separated.
 
FaithfulAndTrue said:
I respect your belief in that. I do believe, however, that there are heresies in the Catholic Church. You will disagree with me and I absolutely respect your position in that regard. I’m not going to name any because that’s a road that won’t lead us to anywhere.
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The question of whether there are heresies in the Catholic Church - and your opinion of it, in particular - is irrelevant. The truth of the matter is that you can’t know that there are heresies in the CC - you can “believe” it, but you can’t know it. You can, however, know for a FACT that there are MANY heresies within those communities practicing sola scriptura. For no matter what doctrine you wish to discuss, there will be those who teach things ranging from slight disagreements to outright contradictions with your particular viewpoint. There is no escaping these simple facts no matter how you wish to spin the discussion: sola scriptura doesnt work, never did, never will.

You seem to be in denial over this fundamental point. Case in point? Your avoidance of telling me what the word of God means by “born of water and Spirit”, and instead dwelling on whether there is heresy in the Catholic Church. It’s another irrelevant distraction from the reality of the failings of sola scriptura.

Blessings!
 
FaithfulAndTrue said:
So scripture is God breathed, yet God is not the ultimate authority of His own scripture?
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I dont know what you mean by “authority of His own Scripture”, and I’m convinced you don’t either. We were talking about the interpretation of Scripture. What are you talking about? If it is the interpretation of Scripture then please tell me how, exactly, God exercises his authority in the interpretation of Scripture.
I don’t think you’re giving the Scriptures enough credit.
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Do I need to say it again? It’s not the Scriptures that I don’t give much credit to, it is the recipients of it. And my opinion is based upon fact unlike yours which is pure speculation apparently.
I’d say there’s quite a bit more clarity beyond just just the Levitical laws. Are some passages and verses difficult to understand? Of course! There are lots! But the Bible is a big book and I don’t consider those to be the majority of it.
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This is simply more denial of the reality of how many contradictory doctrine exist within the sola scriptura community. Until you are prepared to admit that then discussing these issues is fairly useless. If you are unfamiliar with the facts then it doesn’t really mean much to say that you “don’t consider” there to be many areas of disagreement - you would simply be expressing an uninformed opinion.

Blessings!
 
Philthy said:
This is simply more denial of the reality of how many contradictory doctrine exist within the sola scriptura community.
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Indeed.

Here’s just a few concepts that have differing–and often contradictory–doctrines, all from reading the same Scriptures (well, give or take 7 books ;)) This unholy Trinity of me, the Bible and the Holy Spirit has produced chaos and confusion on all of these concepts:

• Abortion
• Attend weekly services, don’t have to go to Church
• Baptism–is it by sprinkling or immersion? Infant or adult? Sacrament or ordinance?
• Charity or no charity (help one another or let them help
• Church leadership, or no leadership
• Death/Soul Sleep
• Divorce
• Drinking allowed, drinking not allowed
• Head coverings or no head coverings
• Health and wealth gospel
• Hell, or no hell
• Homosexuality
• Is God‘s Holy Name Jehovah
• Judge others, don’t judge others
• Lord’s day on Saturday or Sunday
• Music or no music (Singing or no singing)
• Once saved, always saved
• Ordination
• Predestination
• Rapture
• Sola scriptura/private interpretation
• The Eucharist (Communion)
• themselves)
• Tongues (some believe others are not saved if they don’t speak in tongues)
• Trinity vs. Unitarianism
• What’s a sin, what is not a sin
• When to celebrate the Lord’s Day
• Women pastors, no women pastors

:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Lampo said:
The two can’t be separated.
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[BIBLEDRB]Acts 9:1-6[/BIBLEDRB]

Notice that Jesus did not ask, why are you persecuting My people or my disciples or my church.

Persecuting the Church is persecuting the Lord because the Church is His Body.
 
pablope said:
Here is another protestant’s definition of SS on another thread…"It’s the claim that “all (God’s revelations or words)” of it is in scripture (formal and material sufficiency), but that the contents of scripture do not contain all the words of Jesus and the apostles.

If as stated above, not all the words of Jesus and the Apostles are not contained in Scripture, (also confirmed by the Gospel of John), then how can you make the Scripture or the Bible the final authority on a question or discrepancy? Would it not be logical, that to make the final authority claim, it has to be complete and infallible? How will you know if a Tradition is contrary if the Word of God (I assume you mean Bible here) if the Bible “do not contain all the words of Jesus and the apostles.” It will at best be an erroneous judgement, don’t you think?
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Well perhaps it would be better to ask the person who made that statement, but I’ll briefly answer your question with another question: Does anyone possess the ‘missing’ words of Jesus with which we can use to avoid “erroneous judgement”? Since, “if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written” (Jn 21:25), we’d likely be too buried to render any kind of judgement.
 
Originally Posted by FaithfulAndTrue View Post
Does anyone possess the ‘missing’ words of Jesus with which we can use to avoid “erroneous judgement”?
PRmerger said:
That’s exactly where Sacred Tradition comes into the picture! 👍
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And may I add…in the complete deposit of Faith…and the Magisterium so that we do not fall into error. 👍:highprayer:
 
Philthy said:
The question of whether there are heresies in the Catholic Church - and your opinion of it, in particular - is irrelevant.
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Irrelevant? Well I certainly didn’t bring up heresy to begin with.
Philthy said:
The truth of the matter is that you can’t know that there are heresies in the CC - you can “believe” it, but you can’t know it. You can, however, know for a FACT that there are MANY heresies within those communities practicing sola scriptura. For no matter what doctrine you wish to discuss, there will be those who teach things ranging from slight disagreements to outright contradictions with your particular viewpoint. There is no escaping these simple facts no matter how you wish to spin the discussion: sola scriptura doesnt work, never did, never will.
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The same is quite true within the CC. No two people within the CC will have the *exact *same theological beliefs on all matters. A simple survey of the forums here will tell you that. Some will have slight disagreements and some will completely contradict your particular viewpoint as well.
Philthy said:
You seem to be in denial over this fundamental point. Case in point? Your avoidance of telling me what the word of God means by “born of water and Spirit”, and instead dwelling on whether there is heresy in the Catholic Church. It’s another irrelevant distraction from the reality of the failings of sola scriptura.

Blessings!
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OK first of all, those two posts were a page apart so I’m not trying to avoid or redirect anything. Second of all, I specifically mentioned heresy in the CC twice. Once to you to disagree with your “there have only been 15 heresies in the CC” statement, and once to someone else who asked me to name one.

I addressed your “born of water and Spirit” statement by saying that there are many passages and verses in the Bible that are difficult to understand. So what? While we may not know which “water” Jesus means (and we could possibly even debate about what Spirit means), that doesn’t mean we can’t know the overall meaning of the verse. That’s because Jesus made many more statements about what we had to do to achieve salvation than just this one.
 
FaithfulAndTrue said:
The same is quite true within the CC. No two people within the CC will have the *exact *same theological beliefs on all matters.
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That is a strawman, Faithful.

If one wants to know what a Catholic believes, one knows (or ought to know) exactly where to go. . Its truths are the same in Poland, in Rwanda, in Guatemala, in the US.

Now, if I want to know what the “Hermitage Hills Church of the Redeemer” believes, I have to ask the pastor, and he’ll tell me the very nebulous, “We believe in the Bible.” And the pastor of the “Solid Rock Church”, just a block away, will tell me the same thing. But, their beliefs on baptism, salvation, divorce, abortion, the Lord’s Supper will be different, and often contradictory. :eek: And multiply that by the thousands to see how much “unity” there is in saying “We believe in the Bible.”

(NB: Catholics also “believe in the Bible”. This understanding just can’t be divorced from the Faith which gave you the Bible.)
 
Philthy said:
I dont know what you mean by “authority of His own Scripture”, and I’m convinced you don’t either. We were talking about the interpretation of Scripture. What are you talking about? If it is the interpretation of Scripture then please tell me how, exactly, God exercises his authority in the interpretation of Scripture.

Do I need to say it again? It’s not the Scriptures that I don’t give much credit to, it is the recipients of it. And my opinion is based upon fact unlike yours which is pure speculation apparently.
This is simply more denial of the reality of how many contradictory doctrine exist within the sola scriptura community. Until you are prepared to admit that then discussing these issues is fairly useless. If you are unfamiliar with the facts then it doesn’t really mean much to say that you “don’t consider” there to be many areas of disagreement - you would simply be expressing an uninformed opinion.

Blessings!
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“my opinion is based upon fact unlike yours”

Well, if your opinion is factual and mine (which you say you don’t even understand) is not then I’m not even going to bother rehashing everything with you again.
 
PRmerger said:
That is a strawman, Faithful.

If one wants to know what a Catholic believes, one knows (or ought to know) exactly where to go. . Its truths are the same in Poland, in Rwanda, in Guatemala, in the US.

Now, if I want to know what the “Hermitage Hills Church of the Redeemer” believes, I have to ask the pastor, and he’ll tell me the very nebulous, “We believe in the Bible.” And the pastor of the “Solid Rock Church”, just a block away, will tell me the same thing. But, their beliefs on baptism, salvation, divorce, abortion, the Lord’s Supper will be different, and often contradictory. :eek: And multiply that by the thousands to see how much “unity” there is in saying “We believe in the Bible.”

(NB: Catholics also “believe in the Bible”. This understanding just can’t be divorced from the Faith which gave you the Bible.)
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Well, if it sounded as if I meant to imply that everyone outside of the CC is unified, that is in NO WAY my intention and NOT my position. My point is that churches are made up of people and those people will believe vastly different things. It doesn’t matter what the official church denomination or affiliation is.
 
PRmerger said:
Indeed. Unless you can tell us where Christ said that the Gospel of Mark is theopneustos? And that the Gospel of Philip is not?
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So Sacred Tradition has the ‘missing’ words of Christ? And the world is able to contain ALL of them?
 
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