Why do Protestants become Catholic?

[NotWorthy]

NiceFundamental:

Could the error not have a “snow ball” effect?

Only if the error were not corrected. Then the Holy Spirit wouldn’t be infallible, though, would it?

Notworthy

 

[NiceFundamental]

Nicene:

Basically it’s a statement that says the Holy Spirit guides me alone and no one else

Now wouldn’t that been a perfect explanation of what the Catholic Church teaches. My point being, once an “entity” claims infallibility, how can or could you prove it wrong? Answer, you can’t as long as you believe that the infallibility was granted with the correct authority.

Wouldn’t that be a great move by Satan?

 

[NiceFundamental]

jim1130:

Then may I ask, in as pleasant and non-threatening way as possible without it being misinterpreted negatively, what was the motive, reason, rationale, and overall original purpose behind your initial post?

Just to prove/post that such a scripture did exist in the Bible in response to

rciadan:

then how is it that you say that accepting God the Fathers Son as your Savior is what makes you a child of God? Where is that in the Bible?

NiceFundamental:

John 1:11-13 “He came to his own, and his own received him not. **But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:**Which were born, born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God”

My thesaurus on my MS Word gives “receive” when you type in “accept”. Looks like open and shut case to me.

 

[NiceFundamental]

NotWorthy:

Only if the error were not corrected. Then the Holy Spirit wouldn’t be infallible, though, would it?

Notworthy

Yes, there lies the debate if Catholics are indeed Christian and filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[SemperJase]

NiceFundamental:

This is PERFECT proof that someone (Catholic Apologists) cannot take written communication (Early Christian Writings) and know what they mean. You took my written communication, took it our of context - on purpose or not I do not know - and concluded what it meant. However erroneously. Undeniable proof.

Well at least it is perfect proof of my misunderstanding. I stand corrected, thank you for your clarification.

It is not proof that the writings of early christians are impossible to understand. Because I misunderstood your post does not mean that no one is able to understand the church fathers. A non sequitur if you will.

You have also not responded to how you can be led by the Holy Spirit to an interpretation that is contradictory to other spirit led believers. What does that mean for all the other spirit led believers in the last 2000 years who did not have you interpretation? Contrary interpretations cannot all be spirit led, right?

 

[Nicene]

This is PERFECT proof that someone (Catholic Apologists) cannot take written communication (Early Christian Writings) and know what they mean. You took my written communication, took it our of context - on purpose or not I do not know - and concluded what it meant. However erroneously. Undeniable proof.

Kinda lost me here concerning your logic. Could you explain?

Basically how a catholic interprets the bible isn’t the same as a protestant. A catholic approaches the bible as “I may be wrong in what I think this means…” “Check the spirit”

A protestant approaches the bible “I am right and now it’s up to others to try to disprove me but they can’t because I am led by the Holy spirit”

In other words we don’t get to go it alone. I have some ideas on some scriptures but I wouldn’t dream of teaching them as doctrine without having others check my spirit.

Example. Barabbas. His name means “son of the father” (Bar’ Abbas). Who is Barabbas? He is a thief and a murderer. In the gospels who else is described by Christ as a liar, thief and a murderer from the beginning?

So the stage is set, we have Pilot up in the pratorium between Jesus (The Son of the Father) and Barabbas (the son of the father).

Who is in the audience? All those who want Jesus dead, particularly the pharisees and scribes who won’t even set foot inside because it would make them unclean. What do they do? They incite people to cry release for Barabbas and crusifixion for Christ. They are choosing between one “Son of the Father” and the other “son of the father”.

Earlier in the gospels, who does Christ say their father is?

They chose the wrong son of the father because they lacked faith and chose a man of the world, a man of rebellion. They couldn’t see the spiritual world beyond the temporal world. Through their version of Sola Scriptura they couldn’t see the Christ because of their flawed interpretation and understanding. They expected a worldly King. Who has dominion over this world? Are they now truly unclean? They chose the wrong son of the wrong father.

Anyway, that’s my personal interpretation, but that’s a far cry from going out and teaching it to others. I may be wrong. This doesn’t even touch on the salvation issues. As the Gospels teach take it to the church. We see in the NT people who wouldn’t stick with sound doctrine or take it to the church, they go off and teach a different gospel (Hymenaeus and Alexander) These people are all unwilling to have their spirit checked (Gods form of checks and balances).

But if it doesn’t fit with what the first Christians believed then I am definately in the wrong because it questions their salvation on salvation issues, the validity of their belief, and they are a lot closer to Christ, understanding greek (they are living it) and the apostles for me to question them. Salvation issues inherantly say, they blew it for millenia and I now have the answer. Underlying that states, “They didn’t get to heaven because they didn’t have it right, I do.”

Humbleness requires submitting to sound doctrine which has been passed down. Not every spirit whispering in our ear is the Holy Spirit, uncomfortable as that may be for people to hear, but the devil does prowl around like a lion waiting to pounce. He even dared to whisper in Christs ear. And sometimes it is just our own spirit, the spirit of man.

The kindom isn’t a democracy, even if people like to call us drones or what have you, it is a Kingdom. Independant thought and interpretation is structured within the bounds of the kingdom God set up and Christ leads.

We check the spirit for a reason, God told us to. His Kingdom, His rules.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[NiceFundamental]

SemperJase:

You have also not responded to how you can be led by the Holy Spirit to an interpretation that is contradictory to other spirit led believers. What does that mean for all the other spirit led believers in the last 2000 years who did not have you interpretation? Contrary interpretations cannot all be spirit led, right?

Yes, fact would be that people holding to different interpretations = all but one inyerpretation is not lead by the Holy Spirit. Or perhaps, just not to the full truth yet.

 

[NiceFundamental]

Nicene:

Kinda lost me here concerning your logic. Could you explain?

I was trying to demonstrate that someone took my written communication TOTALLY out of context, hence could not interprete (if I may) the correct meaning of my written communication. This was only bewtween a span of 1 day.

How could someone then hold to the belief that one could take written communication from 1900 years ago (Early Chritian Writings), and know, without a doubt, what the exact meaning behind their written communication was?

Thats all.

 

[TrustInTheLord]

NotWorthy:

Wow, you just keep ignoring the facts, don’t you?

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit." There goes Jesus beginning with that phrase “Amen, amen, I say to you…” That’s a clue that what Jesus is about to say is Literal, as it is a court term used by Ancient Israelites in testimony.

Baptism is pretty important!!!

The Early Church knew this: Acts 2:37 - Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, "What are we to do, my brothers?" (V38.) - Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit."

When you speak of Faith in Jesus and Obedience to His Will, that’s exactly what we Catholics are doing when we preach Baptism!!!

Take Care!

Notworthy

So u are saying you are SAVED right, because you are baptized?
Many people from the RCC are baptized so all will be going to heaven? So, that is the most important to you, i guess you don’t know that Walking In Love and knowing The Lord Jesus is the only way. You are going to preach to everybody that by being baptized they will be saved. :nope:

What i think is important is this:

“It’s not important what church you are in. The important thing is: What family are you in?”

Born again…Into the family of God

The key which unlocks all the promises of God is this- Jesus taught that a man must be born again. The following statements came from the lips of Jesus:

“…Except a man be born again, he cannot seek the kingdom of God” (John 3:3)
“…Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”(John 3:5).
“…Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 18:3).
“…except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3,5)

The New Birth is a necessity to being saved. Through the New Birth you come into the right relationship to God. The New Birth is necessary before you can claim any of the benefits of the Bible.

ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHAT IS IN YOUR HEART BROTHER~

WALK IN LOVE

 

[Nicene]

NiceFundamental:

I was trying to demonstrate that someone took my written communication TOTALLY out of context, hence could not interprete (if I may) the correct meaning of my written communication. This was only bewtween a span of 1 day.

I see. I’ll have to go back and read what you originally said.

How could someone then hold to the belief that one could take written communication from 1900 years ago (Early Chritian Writings), and know, without a doubt, what the exact meaning behind their written communication was?

The early church fathers are pretty straight forward. I would highly suggest reading them. They also “checked their spirit” within the bounds of the church. So when you see the councils or the other church fathers in agreement with them you see what the church as a whole found acceptable. It’s also important not to look at their lives as a snapshot.

Ignatius and Polycarp are dead on within the bounds of growth of the church. In their time they are still setting it up and developing it’s growth. Ignatius is a disciple of John, so it’s a good bet he knows what he is talking about. Clement as well (1 Clement that is), You know him from Pauls epistles.

It also helps to understand what they are fighting against in their times, Marcionism for example. Irenaeus tells us of Polycarps meeting Marcion in Rome.

Anyway, they aren’t that hard to read, I hope you pick them up.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[SemperJase]

NiceFundamental:

I was trying to demonstrate that someone took my written communication TOTALLY out of context, hence could not interprete (if I may) the correct meaning of my written communication. This was only bewtween a span of 1 day.

How could someone then hold to the belief that one could take written communication from 1900 years ago (Early Chritian Writings), and know, without a doubt, what the exact meaning behind their written communication was?

Thats all.

There is a major difference. I’m one person who misread a post - a post I was not studying. The writings you are speaking of had been around much longer and have been studied by many more people much more thoroughly than your post.

You have a difficult case to show that no one can understand anyone else’s writings. You are starting with a false premise and come to a conclusion based on insufficient evidence. My post has demonstrated that 2000 years of scholarship is wasted time and effort? Unlikely.

In another reply you said:

NiceFundamental:

Yes, fact would be that people holding to different interpretations = all but one inyerpretation is not lead by the Holy Spirit. Or perhaps, just not to the full truth yet.

An amazing statement. You must be a prophet to be the only one to have the full truth. Why has the Holy Spirit not led anyone else to the full truth? As they don’t have the full truth, why do they think they do? How do we know that you are right and they are wrong as they make the same Spirt led claim that you do? Surely there is a standard besides “I’m right because I know I’m right.”

 

[TrustInTheLord]

THE WATER OF THE NEW BIRTH :bible1:

We read that Jesus said, “Marvel not that i said unto thee,
Ye must be born again” (John3:7).

Just before He said that, Jesus said,"…Verily ,verliy, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God" (John3:5).

What is the water of the New Birth? What does this water of the New Birth mean? Does that save you? No, That is not what Jesus is talking about.

The word of God is the water referred to in John 3:5.
Let’s prove that by looking through a number of Scriptures.

Ephesians 5:26
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it [the church]
with the washing of water by the word.

John 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that i speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 15:3
3 Now ye are clean through the word which i have spoken unto you.

John 17:17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

James 1:18
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Written by Kenneth E. Hagin :bowdown2:

 

[Nicene]

TrustInTheLord:

So u are saying you are SAVED right, because you are baptized?
Many people from the RCC are baptized so all will be going to heaven? So, that is the most important to you, i guess you don’t know that Walking In Love and knowing The Lord Jesus is the only way. You are going to preach to everybody that by being baptized they will be saved. :nope:

You need to study scripture more.

What i think is important is this:

Doesn’t matter what you think, it matters what God thinks and what he set up.

“It’s not important what church you are in. The important thing is: What family are you in?”

Born again…Into the family of God

Actually it does matter. We prefer to be in the church Christ set up. However that doesn’t preclude “ignorance and invincible ignorance” which you may want to read up on.

The key which unlocks all the promises of God is this- Jesus taught that a man must be born again. The following statements came from the lips of Jesus:

“…Except a man be born again, he cannot seek the kingdom of God” (John 3:3)
“…Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”(John 3:5).
“…Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 18:3).
“…except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3,5)

What is “Water and Spirit”? And how do you reconcile this with “Go forth and baptize all nations in the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit?” You say you don’t have to be baptized, yet Christ says differently. Even in acts those who in Acts 10 were immediately baptized.

The New Birth is a necessity to being saved.

Agreed, “water and spirit.”

Through the New Birth you come into the right relationship to God.

It isn’t a one time event. Are you a proponent of OSAS?

The New Birth is necessary before you can claim any of the benefits of the Bible.

Can you show us where this is in the bible or patricitics?

ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHAT IS IN YOUR HEART BROTHER~

WALK IN LOVE

That’s not ALL that matters, “Follow me” for example and “He who loves me keeps my commandments.” If you love Him you do the works he does and the works of His Father. Your heart does lead in the right direction when it is humbled to Gods will. But you are correct that without love everything else is meaningless (Paul)

Is it not breaking his commandment to say you don’t have to be baptized when he said it must be done directly?

Can you show us the health and wealth doctrine in the bible? Particularly when Christ states just the opposite. Pick up your cross and follow him; you will be persecuted in his name, you will complete what is lacking in christs suffering on behalf of the church etc etc etc.

Oh and could you stop shouting please, it’s rude on the internet. (large type)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

THE WATER OF THE NEW BIRTH

We read that Jesus said, “Marvel not that i said unto thee,
Ye must be born again” (John3:7).

Just before He said that, Jesus said,"…Verily ,verliy, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God" (John3:5).

What is the water of the New Birth? What does this water of the New Birth mean? Does that save you? No, That is not what Jesus is talking about.

The word of God is the water referred to in John 3:5.
Let’s prove that by looking through a number of Scriptures.

No offense but Hagin is incorrect. Hagin, no matter what you may revere him, implicitly states that Christianity was wrong until he was born. Here is what water and Spirit are: Baptism, born or Water and Spirit

Actually this all material for probably 2 different threads, instead of derailing the OP’s question.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Eden]

NiceFundamental:

Me, no.

However I believe and know the Holy Spirit is infallible.

Good. Then you admit that you are capable of making errors in matter of faith and morals.

 

[Eden]

NiceFundamental:

Yes, there lies the debate if Catholics are indeed Christian and filled with the Holy Spirit.

The Catholic Church has been here since 33 A.D. - founded in Jerusalem by Christ.

You are a Fundamentalist whose denomination was founded in 20th century America.

It is ironic that the great deceiver has tricked you into believing that the first Christians may not even be Christian at all. Well, the Church is certainly persecuted, misrepresented and slandered but I wouldn’t expect anything less would happen to His Church.

 

[Nicene]

NiceFundamental:

Yes, there lies the debate if Catholics are indeed Christian and filled with the Holy Spirit.

And by the same token shant we say the same about Fundamentalists, non denoms etc? Again “Check the Spirit”

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[TrustInTheLord]

bekalc:

I don’t think its right to say someone’s conversion is well Satan’s plans… I’m not sure how that’s spreading the love no offense. I do’nt think its right to say that we are spreading hatred among Christians but converting…

In all honesty, it was my belief iin the fact that Christians needed to stop fighting and loving each other which frankly led me right to the Catholic Church… I studied theology for three years at a Protestant seminary. I know theology (I’m not dumb). What
bothers me is Christians not agreeing on what I think should be objective issues, and issues which the Bible places a lot of importance on.

For example, Scripture says there is one faith, and one Baptism…Yet, Protestants don’t recognize each other’s baptisms… Infant baptism or adult baptism… Mode? Is it necessary? You may say that’s a non essential, but Scripture says there’s one baptism. IT’s pretty serious when Christians have to rebaptize…

Then there’s the issue of Communion which is suppose to represent the body of Christ, or unity. Yet Protestants in and of themselves cannot agree on what it means, and they cannot all take communion together. A Lutheran who believes in the Real Presence in all honesty cannot take Communion with those who don’t…These are pretty serious issues, and frankly they should be pretty objective ones too…Especially the whole communion issue.

But since there is no authority in Protestantism, each man ends up choosing for themselves, and you have the variety of differences of opinion… Differences which have a scandal in the Christian name.

Now, do I think that Catholics could be in someways more loving to Protestants, well I could be I know that…And the catechism says that both sides bare responsibilty, I agree. But we cannot and must not ignore the fact that there are three branches of Christianity (I’m leaving out the smaller Oriental orthodox branches) 2 major branches the Roman Catholics/Eastern Orthodox have a common creed and are in a lot of agreement with each other. The Oriental orthodox are in agreement on most issues wtih the Catholics/Orthodox too.

And then there are the Protestants, who only make up 1/3 of Christianity, but in all honesty are the cause of the most division… I mean no offense but followers of Luther can’t agree on how to follow Luther. Wesly’s followers can’t agree on how to follow Wesley, and the Calvinists aren’t agreeing on how to interpert Calvin. And the Pentecostals have their divisions as well. Much less, get these people to agree on the Bible…It seems like the only thing the Protestants really agree on is that Catholicism is wrong…

For me, I want to be part of the historical faith… I felt like if I were to remain Protestant, I would have to create my own religion. Because I found inspite of the vast array of Protestant denominations out there, I couldn’t find a single one where I was in 100% agreement with.

I understand what you are saying, how there are so many different types of interpretation coming from Protestants, but my church is not the same as what you describe. It is very decieving to know which church is the one true church. I can only say this… that Satan is trying to destroy God’s church. Be careful not to let your heart fill with hate.

I was born a Catholic, but i found there are something about their worship i didn’t quite get or accept. Like Purgatory. I don’t want to risk my soul. I know that there is only HEAVEN and HELL.

Don’t die in your sins! I wouldn’t want to gamble with my soul~ :nope:

So i decided to seek a different church which i learned more about the Holy bible and The Lord Jesus teachings. And now believe in the Rapture. Catholic’s don’t talk about that stuff.

Just be careful and just walk in love. That is all i can share with you. I just want you to know that the bible is the word of God, and not of men. We don’t make up or change the bible, we take what the bible says and that is it. There is no praying to Mary, or other saints, confessing to the priest, or anything like that. I will pray for all who are lost.

WALK IN LOVE :bible1:

 

[scylla]

Interesting the Catholics don’t talk about the Bible? That’s crazy talk!
usccb.org/nab/today.shtml

Purgatory, that’s been addressed too!
catholic.com/library/purgatory.asp
countless times on threads… somebody here thinks that sin doesn’t matter… feel free to PM me if you would like clarification.

We don’t talk about the Lord Jesus? That’s crazy talk also, let me start reading the Catechism and see how many hours it takes before I encounter the Lord Jesus…Oops about 10 seconds…
usccb.org/catechism/text/prologue.htm

I really suggest you prayerfully consider the posts you make on this forum before making such blatant misrepresentations of the Catholic faith.
Many of us come from outside the Catholic faith and are familiar with the common strawmen attacks and misconceptions people have about the faith. If I can dismiss those points so easily then I would consider the honesty and source of common anti-catholic attacks on the faith. If they had truth on their side they would not need strawman attacks to try and make a point.

Love also demands that we try and correct others and point out lies or misrepresentations as our walk with Christ demands faithfulness to the truth.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[TrustInTheLord]

Nicene:

You need to study scripture more

That’s not ALL that matters, “Follow me” for example and “He who loves me keeps my commandments.” If you love Him you do the works he does and the works of His Father. Your heart does lead in the right direction when it is humbled to Gods will. But you are correct that without love everything else is meaningless (Paul)

Is it not breaking his commandment to say you don’t have to be baptized when he said it must be done directly?

Can you show us the health and wealth doctrine in the bible? Particularly when Christ states just the opposite. Pick up your cross and follow him; you will be persecuted in his name, you will complete what is lacking in christs suffering on behalf of the church etc etc etc.

Oh and could you stop shouting please, it’s rude on the internet. (large type)

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

Yes, i know i have alot to learn about the scriptures. By the way I was baptized as a baby. I was a Catholic, but now a Protestant.

First of all i can do whatever i want if i want to capitalize a word okay.

Second it really doesn’t matter to me if you get what i said or not. And last Walk In Love~

I am not going to judge you, only God will. You have no idea what is in my heart. God only knows. Thanks for your concern.