Why do Protestants convert Catholics?

[Valdemar]

And Lutherans?

Pope Benedict addressed this issue about all “protestants” and drew the distinction between “heretics” {by definition, those who are IN the Church and leave for other doctrines} and those who never knew the true teaching of the Church but grew up outside Her teaching and make every effort to live by the grace they have been given.

Our job as Catholics is to present the teaching of the Church to all, and under the concept of the New Evangelization, that especially includes those in the Protestant world who do not by any fault of their own, know the Catholic truth. That also requires CATHOLICS to both know and live the teachings of the faith. I’m sure you will agree that both of those are big challenges!

The Church continues to make effort to bring home those who have strayed. This work has been especially productive, tho not final in any way, with many Lutherans.

See here for a start;

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

 

[Valdemar]

I’ve seen dozens of Catholic homosexuals (men and women) move into the Anglican/Episcopalian churches because as you say, the liturgy and worship are similar. In these churches, the homosexuals are not only welcome to worship, but welcome to become involved in teaching ministries (even the pastorate), and most importantly to them, are welcome to continue practicing homosexual sex.

The Anglican/Episcopalian pastors and leaders will have to answer to God someday for this. It’s one thing to welcome sinners, but it’s another thing to affirm their sin as righteousness.

In the same way, I’ve seen many divorced Catholics become Lutheran because of similar liturgy and worship. This issue is a little more blurred. Many Evangelical Protestant denominations welcome divorced people and recognize their new marriages, but do not allow them to serve in teaching or leadership ministries, and will not recommend them for any missionary work. At least there is some accountability in the Evangelical Protestant churches for divorced people.

Exactly. VERY good post.

This is what I was referring to above when I said it is “easier” to be a Protestant than a Catholic.

The truth is, Protestant teaching on divorce and homosexuality has radically altered the face “Christianity” to the world and leads many astray. Christ’s words are hard, very hard teaching, and the Catholic faith has never caved in to the world’s “preferences” or demands in these areas.

Anyone who reads the news these days understands that there are some even at high levels of leadership in the Catholic faith who would like to soften Christ’s words, dull them or possibly take the Protestant {generalized} view and just ignore them, but the Church has remained strong EVEN AS IT HAS LOST MONEY AND MEMBERS to the message of the world.

Yes, OP, the “Protestant” world will continue to attract Catholics because of this.

 

[SecretGarden]

I think the question we should ask: what are we as Catholics doing inside our churches that is making people brought up inside the Catholic church want to leave in the first place?

It amazes me how little Catholics in general know about their faith and what the church teaches. Furthermore, we need to realize that we live in a time where there are four generations of Catholics who left the church for various reasons.

• 1. Prevatican II Catholics who grew up inside the Catholic church who knew it before Vatican II where the rules for interactions among non-Catholics was very strict and the accountability of the clergy wasn’t as severe as it it today. Hence they experienced a lot of corruption and in some cases this is a time where some of the sex scandals occurred and church hierchary didn’t do much to curb it so you have a generation of people who are dishearted with the church due to the control it had on the people.
• 1. Vatican II- Catholics who lived through the changes of Vatican II- who felt as if the changes that were being imposed on them without their consent. I spoke to individuals who said they went to mass one week and suddenly things had changed and they weren’t consulted with the changes. There were some things that people liked and instead of the priests and church hierachary proposing the changes to their congregations and then gradually implementing them over a period of time, the changes occurred without people’s consent so people go angry and they left. Again we also have the sex scandals which wounded the church that drove people away.
• 1. Post Vatican II- Catholics living in the time where the changes have already occurred. This generation has not necessarily been brought up inside the church because their parents left the Catholic church and so they are searching for God and because the Catholic church isn’t reaching out to them and the Protestant churches are, they are going there. Furthermore this generation isn’t catechised therefore they have nothing to compare the theology the Protestant churches are teaching them to, to anything else.
• 1. Really post Vatican II where the remaining parents and grandparents are going to mass maybe once a year, occasionally and sometimes every week it varies with the family) but because they weren’t catechised properly, they are unable to teach their grandchildren the teachings of the Catholic church. Furthermore, this generation is living in a very anti-Christian society that teaches them that being a Christian is wrong so they are questioning their faith and the local parishes don’t have enough resources to feed this hungry generation. This generation is hungry for god so they are searching and you have a lot of people being spiritual but not religious or affiliated with a Christian denomination in general.

Furthermore, for the most part Catholic education is no longer being taught inside the schools, it has all become secularized that for children to be educated in Christian schools, they have to attend private school which is expensive therefore the religious education is being fallen onto the local parishes and families. Most families don’t know their catechism so the children are not getting it at home so it rests more on the parishes. I have noticed that Catholic education inside the parishes for the children ends at grade 6 and the church has yet to create a program that carries the children into early adulthood. Some parishes have youth groups and a few young adult groups so they do their best with the youcat and programs adapted from the Protestant churches but not many do.

As a result the church is losing the generation because it’s education doesn’t cover the most important times of our generation’s lives which is age 12 to 30. If you want the church to grow, you need to capture this age group and provide programs that will keep them inside the church. The Protestant churches in particular the Evangelical churches do. They teach their people to invite their friends to church which is why they are expanding.

In summary, if we complain about the Protestant churches stealing our people, I think we need to look inside and look at what we are doing wrong and try to remedy it.

Unfortunately the Catholic church has hurt a lot of people over the generations and people have lost trust in the Catholic church. If you want to bring people back, the Catholic church has to begin sometype of public healing event which it will say it is sorry for what it has done and try to publically rebuild a positive presence in the community. Pope Francis has already started this through his ministry of showing compassion and love to the world but more needs to be done on a local level.

In addition, we ask were our people have gone, the Canadian Sociologist at the University of Lethbridge by the name of DR. REGINALD W. BIBBY once said at a conference in Montreal, Quebec, Canada a few years ago said, “if you want your churches to grow, look at your past church membership lists and call people up.” When was the last time we did that?

In conclusion, it’s time we stop acting as victims and do something to bring our people back. So far, I haven’t seen much. But some people are returning home slowly.

 

[guanophore]

Interestingly, I was never catechized in a way that even remotely resembles this.
Jon

Clearly this post is another example of the impossibility of lumping all “Protestants” into one category. My Protestant experience was nothing like this either.

 

[guanophore]

Probably because there are less things that a Catholic would have to be convinced of to become protestant then someone from another religion and visa versa. They may also be a part of the same community where as a Christian is normally less connected to someone of another religion. I have known at least 6 Catholics who go to protestant bible studies because the surrounding Catholic community does not have a lot of good bible studies at least in this area. I want to say this is coming from them not me.

You make a valid point. When I wandered away from the CC in my youth, I said it was because I was “starving”. One reason for this was a lack of understanding/experiential apprehension or Eucharist, and the other was the lack of Scripture study. My Protestant brethren taught me how to read, pray, and study the Scriptures.

 

[Peebo]

As a former Pentecostal I would think the main reason we tried to convert Catholics was because we believed they were not Christians but unsaved members of an apostate church who practiced man made traditions rather than preached the gospel of Jesus Christ…secondly Catholics didn’t really have much of a clue about their own faith where many of them were Catholic in name only or only practiced because it was part of their culture and tradition…no real commitment or understanding of Catholic belief or teaching…didn’t have a clue what the bible taught…it was easy to convert them probably more so than any other denomination,sad to say it’s probably still true in many cases…one of the things that stood out for me before my conversion was the shock when you met a Catholic who actually lived a Christian lifestyle and knew Jesus Christ as their savior…and wasn’t afraid or embarrassed to admit it…this is why I love our Pope Francis…he seems to have woken many Catholics out of their lackadaisical attitude towards their faith…of course now I have been a Catholic for many years and understand the truth of what the church teaches and the countless millions of Catholics who have and do so now faithfully follow the church established by Jesus Christ.

 

[guanophore]

 Almost without exception, all of the people I know who have left the Catholic Church for one or another of the variations of Protestantism, left for other reasons.

Regrettably I fear that a significant portion of these “reasons” originate below the waist. :bigyikes:

 

[Valdemar]

You make a valid point. When I wandered away from the CC in my youth, I said it was because I was “starving”. One reason for this was a lack of understanding/experiential apprehension or Eucharist, and the other was the lack of Scripture study. My Protestant brethren taught me how to read, pray, and study the Scriptures.

I sort of agree but when I converted to the Catholic faith, well, actually some time after, I began to see the ENDLESS opportunities for spiritual growth and faith building found in the various spiritual traditions of the Church and in the structured prayers of Catholicism. So my prayer life now is highly structured AND remains deeply personal. Both/and.

The existence of structured prayer in Catholicism is one of the areas where I believe Protestants are effective at “beating up” Catholics who do not understand their own faith. Many Protestants denigrate structured prayer as less than personal, not real prayer, whatever. They miss the fact that much Protestant prayer is simply personal reflection with no regard for truth. That is actually true of all of us Catholic and Protestant alike when we divorce doctrine and truth from personal wants and desires and call the latter “prayer”. The culture of Prayer in many Protestant gatherings is often beautiful in one sense as it IS personal reflection, but alas, the doctrinal rabbit trails such a culture leads to are frightening and indeed, that has been a problem with all schismatics for all time.

On the Catholic side, a life spent “reading” prayers is also potentially stifling. If by reading a person believes that there is “magic in the incantation”. THAT has been an accusation by Protestants which I think is actually true for some folks. Again, proper catechesis is the answer, as most people who actually dedicate themselves to a structured prayer life WANT to learn and grow in the faith.

So yes, for sure there are elements of culture in Protestantism that can be latched on to by Catholics.

For those who may see me as a rabid, unabashed unapologetic, Catholic {which is pretty much true LOL} I must say my wife and I both are glad we came to the Catholic Church from previous lives in Protestantism, and because of that experience I am better able to guide my still-Protestant kids toward the Church. One is getting confirmed in December and one other is in RCIA and she and her sister are “leaning” Catholic. Pray for them both that they continue on and find full communion with Mother Church, the Body of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

 

[Peebo]

Regrettably I fear that a significant portion of these “reasons” originate below the waist. :bigyikes:

Maybe so for Catholics who leave on their own accord…this thread is about Protestants converting Catholics…I don’t think you’ll find Evangelical Christians converting Catholics on the pretext of anything goes as far as Homosexuality…divorce…remarriage etc…that really is insulting to many of our Protestant brethren

 

[Valdemar]

Maybe so for Catholics who leave on their own accord…this thread is about Protestants converting Catholics…I don’t think you’ll find Evangelical Christians converting Catholics on the pretext of anything goes as far as Homosexuality…divorce…remarriage etc…that really is insulting to many of our Protestant brethren

That is an interesting distinction. I think you are correct.

People LEAVE the RCC and become Anglicans, etc, because they reject the staunch doctrine of the faith but they are not TAKEN from the Catholic faith because the group that draws them affirms heresies. I think I said that right…

Indeed, one tragedy I have noticed within Catholicism is a modernist view that a person can remain Catholic and still hold to beliefs such as approval of homosexual lifestyle, divorce/remarriage, affirmation of cohabitation as an acceptable lifestyle, etc. and still remain “Catholic”.

When I was young, long ago, I believed the RCC was no different than the liberal wings of the United Methodist Church {the denomination I grew up in} or the Episcopalians. That was simply due to the people I knew who were “Catholic”. Today, obviously, I know better, but a few of our modernist Bishops get microphones shoved under their mouths every time they burp and thus the liberal views get disseminated enough to again cause chaos for those who know nothing about the Catholic faith.

I sincerely believe that many more Protestants would convert to the Catholic faith if they really KNEW what the strong teaching of the Catholic faith IS…AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN.

I myself came to the Church largely because of my lifelong reading of Scripture. I saw in Protestant faiths {every branch I attended} a “snapshot” of doctrines they sought to emphasize, but none had the fullness of the Scriptures within their fold like the Catholic faith.

 

[biggybig]

Excellent summation. I was just about your same age when I converted. My wife also did and my kids, praise God, are heading in that direction with my son to be confirmed in December.

I will add one more thing to your excellent summation which you actually touched on.

Because many Catholics know little about their faith and are easy marks for Protestants who act like they DO.

And…

BECAUSE IT IS EASIER TO BE A PROTESTANT THAN A CATHOLIC.

The relationship of man to God for Protestants revolves around no special authority but the person him/herself. Their beliefs have no final word to order them. They live by their feelings and feet. “If I don’t feel good about this ‘church’ I’ll just beat feet to one ‘I am comfortable with’”.

Thus watch doctrines. They ebb and flow with the times.

That is easy-living Christianity.

This is very true. I converted from baptist to Catholic last Easter. It’s been awesome. Many many protestants struggle with slavery to their sins not knowing that they can have true freedom from sin. Not believing it to be possible. I didn’t experience this freedom till I became Catholic and realized, wow, EVERYTHING Jesus talked about was true! And, I was not expecting this Grace coming into the Catholic Church. It’s not that I didn’t believe that before, but, there must be something wrong with me for being so weak and constantly falling back into sin. Many protestants struggle with the same thing. I have never been more of a saint in my life and that is not because of me. I am weak, but Christ who strengthened me and now I am strong! Cliche, I know…But, it is so true!

 

[captainmike]

I don’t know from experience as I am an atheist convert to the Catholic church.

Would you mind sharing your conversion story?

 

[Vanny]

Sheep stealing, particularly from communions that hold to both word and sacrament, is not typically the approach of Lutheranism.
Those churches that target other Christian communions often do, in fact, target other non-Catholic churches, as well as Catholics.

Jon

This is correct.

 

[Topper17]

Hi Vald,

Indeed, one tragedy I have noticed within Catholicism is a modernist view that a person can remain Catholic and still hold to beliefs such as approval of homosexual lifestyle, divorce/remarriage, affirmation of cohabitation as an acceptable lifestyle, etc. and still remain “Catholic”.

When I was young, long ago, I believed the RCC was no different than the liberal wings of the United Methodist Church {the denomination I grew up in} or the Episcopalians. That was simply due to the people I knew who were “Catholic”. Today, obviously, I know better, but a few of our modernist Bishops get microphones shoved under their mouths every time they burp and thus the liberal views get disseminated enough to again cause chaos for those who know nothing about the Catholic faith.

I agree 100%. Prior to 1920 not one Protestant communion accepted artificial birth control. Now none of them actually teach against in any significant way. Once the first one caved (I forget which one it was), the rest had to follow suit, and in relatively short order, they did. What we see here is a relaxation of the Christian moral code, one that has been brought about partially as a result of inter-Protestant competition for keeping posteriors in the pews. Fallen man will always gravitate towards the lower moral standard, but the proper role of the Christian Church is to oppose that slide.

Protestantism has officially caved in on the issue of artificial birth control. They have all at least abrogated their pre-1920 position on this issue of Christian morals. This change in teaching betrays the fact that these churches either taught incorrectly before or teach incorrectly now. Either they were improperly teaching on a matter of Christian morals prior to 1920, or they are now. It’s a ‘pick your poison’ thing. Either way, it should not inspire confidence.

Catholics also are prone to succumb to this moral slide, but at least the official teaching of the Catholic Church continues to oppose it. Because the Church is precluded from teaching falsely on matters of faith and morals, it will NEVER be able to ‘adjust’ to the culture on the matter of artificial birth control. The Catholic Church IS different than the various Protestant communions.

The position of the Church on this matter is one of the issues which causes some to leave the Church. The fact that it cannot and will not change it’s position SHOULD be seen as a sign of the TRUE Church. Of course, human nature will force people to rationalize this situation in the same way they manage to do all the others.

God Bless You Vald, Topper

 

[guanophore]

Maybe so for Catholics who leave on their own accord…this thread is about Protestants converting Catholics…I don’t think you’ll find Evangelical Christians converting Catholics on the pretext of anything goes as far as Homosexuality…divorce…remarriage etc…that really is insulting to many of our Protestant brethren

No, and I did not mean to imply anything of that kind, but polls show there is widespread dissent among “Catholics” with the Church teaching on divorce, co-habitation/premarital sex and birth control.

Having sojourned among evangelicals for many years, I found their commitment to moral conduct superior to that of American nominal Catholics.

 

[JRRTFAN]

I thought the Protestants get a lot of their members converting people from the Catholic church. Why is that? Why not convert more people from other religions? Or from a different Protestant church?

I’m not well informed in this matter so you could explain to me what is the truth.

It’s really fairly simple for them to convert Catholics. As a group we are dreadfully catechized and our pastors do not, in general, preach any solid black and white morality. They are better catechized about the Bible and their pastors preach the difference of good and bad. Their music is praise of God, generally, and not praise of the almighty “us”, “we”, “I”. My wife and children have gone over to mega-churches.

They also keep the youth active. How many 18 year olds attend mass at your parish? Other than a few faithful servers there are none at the mass I attend.

Simply based on what I know, I could convert 85% of the people I meet at mass to the heresy of Evangelicalism. We’ve got a mess on our hands and pretty soon we’ll be like Europe - dead.

 

[Cat]

Maybe so for Catholics who leave on their own accord…this thread is about Protestants converting Catholics…I don’t think you’ll find Evangelical Christians converting Catholics on the pretext of anything goes as far as Homosexuality…divorce…remarriage etc…that really is insulting to many of our Protestant brethren

Yes, I did mention this in my post.

However, there is a large variety of Evangelical Protestant churches/fellowships/home churches, and it’s possible to find those who call themselves Evangelical Protestant and look the other way when homosexuals are actively involved in sexual relationships, or who ignore marital status (divorced, co-habiting, etc.).

Many of the Evangelical Protestant fellowships are “non-denominational”, and this means that there is no central authority informing the people what is true doctrine. So a pastor can essentially rule the roost and make up his own doctrine. And everyone knows that you can prove practically anything from the Scriptures.

Most Evangelical Protestant churches teach that the practice of homosexual sex is a sin.

Most Evangelical Protestant churches teach that abortion is a sin, but do not consider contraception a sin.

When it comes to divorce, the Evangelical Protestant churches and fellowships are all over the place. Many still don’t allow divorced people in teaching ministries (including the pastorate and the mission field). But many do.

So to a certain extent I agree with those who say that it’s “easier” to be a Protestant.

BUT…I’ve written about this before here on CAF. The Evangelical Protestant fellowships have an unwritten, extensive, and all-encompassing List of Rules for those who are part of their church/fellowship, and it is NOT easy to follow this! The “Rules” cover everything from alcohol use (never allowed) to television viewing (very limited) to subscribing to newspapers and magazines (secular frowned upon) to education of children (homeschooled or Christian schools, not Catholic) to women’s dress (modest but sexy) to use of money (no debt, tithing 10%)…the list goes on and on, and all the Evangelical Protestants in any given church know what’s on the List and live by its Rules.

You’ll never see this List in writing anywhere, and many Evangelical Protestants will scoff at the notion that they are “legalistic.” But just break one of those unwritten Rules and the result will be shunning and even ousting from the fellowship. After all, the Bible makes it clear that a “Christian” who continues to practice “sin” was actually never a Christian at all, and we are not to be in fellowship with those who reject Jesus Christ.

I lived it for 47 years. I know what I’m talking about.

 

[tskrobacz]

I thought the Protestants get a lot of their members converting people from the Catholic church. Why is that? Why not convert more people from other religions? Or from a different Protestant church?

I’m not well informed in this matter so you could explain to me what is the truth.

Here’s a video by Dr. Peter Kreeft that gives some wonderful perspective:

youtube.com/watch?v=VO2NGGmWBQo

 

[Valdemar]

It’s really fairly simple for them to convert Catholics. As a group we are dreadfully catechized and our pastors do not, in general, preach any solid black and white morality. They are better catechized about the Bible and their pastors preach the difference of good and bad. Their music is praise of God, generally, and not praise of the almighty “us”, “we”, “I”. My wife and children have gone over to mega-churches.

They also keep the youth active. How many 18 year olds attend mass at your parish? Other than a few faithful servers there are none at the mass I attend.

Simply based on what I know, I could convert 85% of the people I meet at mass to the heresy of Evangelicalism. We’ve got a mess on our hands and pretty soon we’ll be like Europe - dead.

Yes, we do have a problem on our hands.

You are right about everything you say here.

What strikes me is that many of the converts I meet {myself included} come to the Catholic Church based on Scripture AND the actual teachings of the Church.

But once in the Church it is so easy to find deadness everywhere. Somehow a generation of leaders has ignored or pretended the teachings are “already known” by the faithful {I don’t like that term…} when in reality most cradle Catholics I meet really do not know their faith and many are simply horrified to share it. Remember Cardinal Dolan’s statement about how you won’t hear a priest preach on contraception and abortion, etc? AS IF THAT IS A GOOD THING??

Look at the issues we have to conquer. It’s like “What happened to the Catholic Church since V2?” Even look at the selection of the Bible translation used in Mass! The USCCB approved the NAB and NABRE and just take a look at the commentary and text notes in that thing. You’d think we were run by Liberal Protestant academics.

THIS is why many of us have found solace in the TLM congregations. I live in a remote area and am active with our wonderful African Priest in the rebirth and rebuilding {what else to call it?} of our Novus Ordo parish, BUT I am also a member of an FSSP parish 75 miles away and thank God for the FSSP! I joined the Confraternity some time back to prop up this ministry.

Where we have to daily deal with half-baked Catholics in the novus ordo parish who don’t want to do this or run down that about Catholic Tradition and teaching and where the hair color is solid gray, in the FSSP parish there is LIFE. FAMILIES, CHILDREN, YOUNG PEOPLE, YOUTH, YOUNG FAMILIES. Growing and active ministry. And ALL of it holding to the SOLID TRADITION AND TEACHING of the ONE Church of Christ, the Catholic Church.

That FSSP parish has I am told produced more priests since it opened than the ENTIRE DIOCESE OF BOISE!

As for poaching members of the FSSP parish to Protestantism, well, good luck.

On Christ the King Sunday {’'62 Missal date/schedule} we had a procession of the Blessed Sacrament down thru town and out to Lake Coeur d’Alene where an altar was set up. There we had a short adoration service. Police escort, streets blocked, people on the sidewalks kneeled down as we passed. On the way, we prayed the Rosary and the Divine Mercy Chaplet while the Choir sang. It was unreal. Really unreal. It was supernatural.

And then, after that mountain top experience, I returned to my novus ordo parish where the I got a platefull of whining and fussing about the fact that the Priest ditched the hippydippy Woodstock long haired pothead music of the OCP in favor of actual hymns with bold, CATHOLIC theology in them and ordered the “choir” from front stage to the choir loft {they all then quit as they were no longer front and center…}, etc, etc, etc…

Tonite?

We have a parish dinner at the novus ordo parish. Yeah, I actually have to ask if the leaders will take into account the penitential rule of the Church and respect a meatless Friday…

I doubt it. It isn’t Lent you know and “we don’t have to do that stuff anymore!” as if all of this is just such a pain in the butt why don’t we just become Protestants since we don’t know and don’t care what penance means anyolehow.

My mind goes back to the Israelites and the challenge Moses gave to the men assembled for battle. Got a new wife? Go home. Afraid to fight? Go home. The Lord doesn’t need a massive army. He needs only those devoted to His will and his way to win His fight. Whiners and those who look back behind the plow need not apply.

Sorry for the rant, but seriously is there any doubt why Protestants with their easy-listening message poach Catholics? It isn’t even shooting fish in a barrel. It is shooting fish on your plate.

 

[Valdemar]

Sorry for the rant.

Hopefully it will be motivating.

Yeah, motivating.

Let’s face it.

The US Catholic Church is hurting. She’s lying in the ditch.

BUT SHE IS STILL THE CHURCH, THE ONLY CHURCH. The teachings of the Church have not changed and she is still the Bride of Christ.

Will WE help her up, pick her up, nurse her wounds and doctor her to health and strength?

That is the question for our generation, and as the only Church, the question is put out there for Protestants, too.

She is beckoning you to come home where you can help her.

Believe it or not, we are all in this together, and someday we will be unified, like it or not.