Why do Protestants convert Catholics?

[Valdemar]

It might be easier, but I don’t think your being truthful to God, your being truthful to yourself. That’s a big difference.

I don’t know what you mean.

The Church teaches the truth in its fullness.

The Protestant groups have selected doctrines they emphasize. However, in the void they create of the true Church, a “Protestant” can float around selecting whatever brand of teaching they “find most comfortable”.

That’s what I meant by “easier”. It is a figurative statement.

Don’t like this “Pastor”? No problem, just try the one down the street.

Hence they create ghetto theology.

 

[SteveVH]

I don’t know what you mean.

The Church teaches the truth in its fullness.

The Protestant groups have selected doctrines they emphasize. However, in the void they create of the true Church, a “Protestant” can float around selecting whatever brand of teaching they “find most comfortable”.

That’s what I meant by “easier”. It is a figurative statement.

Don’t like this “Pastor”? No problem, just try the one down the street.

Hence they create ghetto theology.

I don’t think Chero23 meant the “you” as you, but was rather speaking of the one doing the church shopping.

 

[Valdemar]

I don’t think Chero23 meant the “you” as you, but was rather speaking of the one doing the church shopping.

Oh, now I get it.

LOL.

 

[chero23]

I don’t think Chero23 meant the “you” as you, but was rather speaking of the one doing the church shopping.

Lol yes thanks for the clarification, I should of put ( ) around the word you to not seem too direct LOL. I appreciate it.

 

[chero23]

I don’t know what you mean.

The Church teaches the truth in its fullness.

The Protestant groups have selected doctrines they emphasize. However, in the void they create of the true Church, a “Protestant” can float around selecting whatever brand of teaching they “find most comfortable”.

That’s what I meant by “easier”. It is a figurative statement.

Don’t like this “Pastor”? No problem, just try the one down the street.

Hence they create ghetto theology.

But I’m with you. I do think these people are doing a serious mistake by “church shopping”.

I mean the word of God is not to like only what fits “you” best. No Sir/ Ma’am, the word of God is to be followed as he has set forward.

 

[Valdemar]

But I’m with you. I do think these people are doing a serious mistake by “church shopping”.

I mean the word of God is not to like only what fits “you” best. No Sir/ Ma’am, the word of God is to be followed as he has set forward.

Amen.

THIS was a concept that brought me to the Catholic Church:

***“We do not really want a religion that is right where we are right. What we want is a religion that is right where we are wrong.” ***

Chesterton.

 

[guanophore]

Frankly, the choice of music really does not matter. It’s more important to determine how do we get the congregation more involved and more people attending.

I agree with you that we need to evangelize Catholics. On reason they are such easy pickings for the Evangelicals is that there is an honest desire for a more vibrant spiritual experience that they don’t find in their Catholic practice.

I think the choice of music matters a great deal. One of the things that turned me off post Vatican 2 was bringing secular music into the Liturgy. It made my heart sink to hear “Mother Mary Come to Me” by the Beatles. I am sure they had the best of intentions, but for anyone who knew the origin of the song it was a bummer.

I also think that our modern media focused culture thrives in the big mega churches where the “worship” is more like a concert/entertainment. I confess that I love loud and vigorous praise, and one doesn’t find it often in Mass. At the daily Mass today there were about 30 folks present and only two of us were singing.

I think that many Catholics do not have a deep spiritual experience at Mass, and get easily “bored” by it. Granted, I have heard my share of boring homilies too, but that is not why I come to Mass so I can suffer it. On the other hand, there are some really awesome Protestant preachers that can keep a congregation spellbound.

Catholics are vulnerable because they have real needs and wants that they don’t feel are being met in the Catholic Church.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I think that many Catholics do not have a deep spiritual experience at Mass, and get easily “bored” by it. Granted, I have heard my share of boring homilies too, but that is not why I come to Mass so I can suffer it. On the other hand, there are some really awesome Protestant preachers that can keep a congregation spellbound.

That’s true. I think the conviction of the Priest has to do with it as well. I’ve been to several different Masses around the U.S. and abroad. And there are some Priests that you are unable to tell if it’s the first time they have lead the Mass. It is obvious that their spirit is there. There’s other Priests that you are able to tell that they are just doing an obligation. At those times I just either follow along on my iMissal app or I get my San Damiano/San Padre Pio rosary and start praying the Rosary and giving thanks. Or I look at the images/art at the Church and pray and wonder how it would have been like to have seen Christ and the Apostles. But regardless, I really love the Mass.

To answer the OP: ignorance.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

A thought which delights the Orthodox.

Wow… just wow…

 

[guanophore]

That’s true. I think the conviction of the Priest has to do with it as well. I’ve been to several different Masses around the U.S. and abroad. And there are some Priests that you are unable to tell if it’s the first time they have lead the Mass. It is obvious that their spirit is there. There’s other Priests that you are able to tell that they are just doing an obligation. At those times I just either follow along on my iMissal app or I get my San Damiano/San Padre Pio rosary and start praying the Rosary and giving thanks. Or I look at the images/art at the Church and pray and wonder how it would have been like to have seen Christ and the Apostles. But regardless, I really love the Mass.

To answer the OP: ignorance.

I have been doing the Liturgy of the Hours before and after Mass, and have been waiting for someone to scold me for using my phone in Church.

You make a good point about how important it is to have a well ornamented Church. I know that a lot of that stained glass and decoration was made for those who could not read, but even a mind that wanders can be captured by good artwork and the heart returned to God.

This was one of the aspects of the Reformation that was so sad for me. The Churches were stripped, and became bare - in an effort to purge all the “trappings” of Catholicism, much was lost that can enhance worship. I love the bells and smells!

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I have been doing the Liturgy of the Hours before and after Mass, and have been waiting for someone to scold me for using my phone in Church.

I use my tablet, LOL. Old man eyes

You make a good point about how important it is to have a well ornamented Church. I know that a lot of that stained glass and decoration was made for those who could not read, but even a mind that wanders can be captured by good artwork and the heart returned to God.

This was one of the aspects of the Reformation that was so sad for me. The Churches were stripped, and became bare - in an effort to purge all the “trappings” of Catholicism, much was lost that can enhance worship. I love the bells and smells!

Oh yes, a picture is worth more than a thousand words!

And don’t get me started with the bells and smells!!! I even pay attention to the rhythm the altar boys use during the offering. Last Sunday’s guy was spot on in duration and rhythm.

And the incense is so reverent.

Nothing like immersing oneself away from the world and focus on the Risen Christ!

 

[JonNC]

I should add that articles demonstrating the success of “Protestantism” in drawing away Catholics are somewhat misleading, whether intentionally or not.

There is no such things as “Protestantism”.

It is true that certain generalizations can be made about features of non-Catholic {maybe that is a better term when generalizations are made} schismatic groups are discussed, but doctrinal divisions abound between non-Catholic groups and thus while it appears “Catholics” are losing the field, in reality, there is simply no single group of non-Catholics that is truly winning it. Especially in Africa and Latin America where many diverse “evangelical” groups exist. And it wouldn’t matter if only one WAS “winning” Catholics away from the Church.

The term “evangelical” itself has evolved over time, meaning different things over the years and leaving it more or less meaningless anymore. Again, the power of language can be a deceptive power.

For myself, I see the “success” {can schism and more schism truly be "successful?} of “evangelicalism” is often caused not so much by its CHRISTIAN message but rather by power of the Western/US cultural steamroller that brings it to the world, complete with anthropocentric emphasis, detachment from historical continuity and truth and lack of concern with doctrinal detail and purity.

It is a very appealing message to preach “All you need is JESUS!” tho it is heresy to do so. For “JESUS alone” leaves out the Trinity, and often is merely a euphemism for “what I want in religion is what I will take thank you very much”.

Appealing, for sure. Successful, absolutely. “Right” according to the Scriptures and the salvation history of God?

Not so much.

Good post.

Jon

 

[Cat]

I agree with you that we need to evangelize Catholics. On reason they are such easy pickings for the Evangelicals is that there is an honest desire for a more vibrant spiritual experience that they don’t find in their Catholic practice.

I think the choice of music matters a great deal. One of the things that turned me off post Vatican 2 was bringing secular music into the Liturgy. It made my heart sink to hear “Mother Mary Come to Me” by the Beatles. I am sure they had the best of intentions, but for anyone who knew the origin of the song it was a bummer.

I also think that our modern media focused culture thrives in the big mega churches where the “worship” is more like a concert/entertainment. I confess that I love loud and vigorous praise, and one doesn’t find it often in Mass. At the daily Mass today there were about 30 folks present and only two of us were singing.

I think that many Catholics do not have a deep spiritual experience at Mass, and get easily “bored” by it. Granted, I have heard my share of boring homilies too, but that is not why I come to Mass so I can suffer it. On the other hand, there are some really awesome Protestant preachers that can keep a congregation spellbound.

Catholics are vulnerable because they have real needs and wants that they don’t feel are being met in the Catholic Church.

I think we need to be careful not to get caught up in “experiences.” ANY “experience” becomes routine after repeated exposure, causing the person to seek more fulfilling “experiences.” That’s one reason why Catholics convert to Protestantism, and why Protestants do the “church hop” searching for better churches–because they are seeking a more transcendent “experience” of God.

I think it’s important that we constantly remind ourselves and others that we walk by faith, not sight (or “experience”). God is just as real in a boring Mass as He is in an ethereal, beautiful, inspiring Mass.

That being said, I do believe that it’s a noble goal to try to make our Masses more appealing by bringing in “excellent” music of all styles, training our priests to be better homilists, creating a more uplifting architecture, making sure that the worship space is physically comfortable (not too cold or hot), making sure that the worship space sound system enables everyone to clearly hear what is being said or sung, etc.

I’ve said it many times on CAF–we do not cease to be human beings when we are at Mass. Human beings respond to those things that are perceived through their senses–a beautiful hymn, a clearly-heard and understood Scripture reading, a riveting homily, inspiring works of art, a comfortable seat, the appropriate temperature, etc.

There are certainly times in life where we should practice “mortification of the flesh” so that we can free ourselves from the “need” to have pretty music, exciting homilies, etc. There is great value in sitting through a “boring” Mass because it helps us to recognize that we walk by faith, and that our lack of an uplifting “experience” is not a measure of Christ’s True Presence.

But I think as a general rule, we should strive to make our Masses as appealing to frail human beings as we can. There is certainly no “sin” in offering up excellent music, a beautiful worship space, proper temperature in the room, etc. And these “human” things really do help many people to recognize that Jesus is Truly Present.

 

[Valdemar]

I think we need to be careful not to get caught up in “experiences.” ANY “experience” becomes routine after repeated exposure, causing the person to seek more fulfilling “experiences.” That’s one reason why Catholics convert to Protestantism, and why Protestants do the “church hop” searching for better churches–because they are seeking a more transcendent “experience” of God.

I think it’s important that we constantly remind ourselves and others that we walk by faith, not sight (or “experience”). God is just as real in a boring Mass as He is in an ethereal, beautiful, inspiring Mass.

That being said, I do believe that it’s a noble goal to try to make our Masses more appealing by bringing in “excellent” music of all styles, training our priests to be better homilists, creating a more uplifting architecture, making sure that the worship space is physically comfortable (not too cold or hot), making sure that the worship space sound system enables everyone to clearly hear what is being said or sung, etc.

I’ve said it many times on CAF–we do not cease to be human beings when we are at Mass. Human beings respond to those things that are perceived through their senses–a beautiful hymn, a clearly-heard and understood Scripture reading, a riveting homily, inspiring works of art, a comfortable seat, the appropriate temperature, etc.

There are certainly times in life where we should practice “mortification of the flesh” so that we can free ourselves from the “need” to have pretty music, exciting homilies, etc. There is great value in sitting through a “boring” Mass because it helps us to recognize that we walk by faith, and that our lack of an uplifting “experience” is not a measure of Christ’s True Presence.

But I think as a general rule, we should strive to make our Masses as appealing to frail human beings as we can. There is certainly no “sin” in offering up excellent music, a beautiful worship space, proper temperature in the room, etc. And these “human” things really do help many people to recognize that Jesus is Truly Present.

Very well said.

 

[SteveVH]

Very well said.

I second that. Having just moved to another state I am experiencing “mortification of the ears”. I was a music minister in my former parish and we worked very hard to provide the most beautiful music we could. In my new parish there is a pianist and one singer. I am almost certain that her name is Edith Bunker. So this is quite the experience.

 

[Valdemar]

I second that. Having just moved to another state I am experiencing “mortification of the ears”. I was a music minister in my former parish and we worked very hard to provide the most beautiful music we could. In my new parish there is a pianist and one singer. I am almost certain that her name is Edith Bunker. So this is quite the experience.

Trust me.

One brief visit to our parish would convince even the most rabid Hyper-Calvinist of the doctrine and existence of purgatory.

 

[SteveVH]

Trust me.

One brief visit to our parish would convince even the most rabid Hyper-Calvinist of the doctrine and existence of purgatory.

Indeed.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Amen.

THIS was a concept that brought me to the Catholic Church:

***“We do not really want a religion that is right where we are right. What we want is a religion that is right where we are wrong.” ***

Chesterton.

Awesome quote.

:clapping:

 

[SteveVH]

Trust me.

One brief visit to our parish would convince even the most rabid Hyper-Calvinist of the doctrine and existence of purgatory.

The silver lining may very well be, however, that you will not find such faith in any other parish, 'cause that is about all we got.

 

[Valdemar]

The silver lining may very well be, however, that you will not find such faith in any other parish, 'cause that is about all we got.

Thanks for that encouraging note. We are rebuilding the parish and we all need to remember that may very well be true.