I
IHS
Guest
Well for starters. How about this verse for a guarentee. Jesus said ask anything in my name and it shall be granted . All that is required is to have faith in Him.(John 14;12-14)
- Status
A
AlegreFe
Guest
That’s a good one!
Us Catholics believe in this passage. We believe in all the passages in the WHOLE Bible.What kind of authority here on earth do you have to tell you about the teachings of Jesus Christ?
We Catholics have the Magisterium of the Church. God’s Word was revealed to us through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition and they are taught through the Magisterium of the Catholic Church by the power of the Holy Spirit.
J
jmcrae
Guest
The voice you hear in the Confessional is God’s voice.However, is it acceptable if I confess my sins directly to God himself and then confess to a priest and do penance etc?
The priest is there in persona Christi, through the virtue of his priestly ordination, which means that he is a “window” through which you can see and hear Jesus Christ speaking to you, in person.
B
believers
Guest
Purgatory contradicts what Jesus did on the cross. If you understand why Jesus died on the cross then YOU WOULD KNOW that purgatory cannot exist. We received atonement for Adam’s disobedience through Jesus.
Rom 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
You CANNOT be purified after you die. You MUST purify yourself by obeying the Word while you are still alive on earth. It’s too late after you die.
1Pe 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Jesus gave us 2 Commandments that we MUST obey. Follow these commandments to purify your soul. God wants us to love.
Mat 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:39
And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
B
believers
Guest
That’s definitely not in the Bible.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Yes, I am fully aware of that. Everything that I do as a Catholic is in order to join myself to Christ crucified on the cross.
In one sense you are right, since if we have even one unconfessed, unabsolved sin on our soul at the time of death, then certainly we will go directly to Hell. Nobody is saying that Purgatory is a “second chance” to be forgiven of our sins.
Rather, having confessed, repented, and been absolved of all of our sins, Purgatory provides us with the opportunity to complete our penance or reparation.
And if we die in anything less than the state of perfect love for God and for all human beings (not merely a feeling of well-being toward them, but the desire to be of service to them, even to die on their behalf, to save them from sorrow and to provide them with opportunities to succeed) then we cannot enter Heaven.
But if we have confessed and repented of our sins, then God will fill up what is lacking in our penances with a period of cleansing in Purgatory, to perfect us in faith, hope, and charity.
Even Mother Teresa, who willingly washed the sores of lepers with her bare hands, feared that her love for humanity was not perfect enough for her to be able to go to Heaven. What then of those of us who wouldn’t even cross the street to give money to a charity foundation?
J
jmcrae
Guest
Yes it is.
Luke 10:16 (King James Version)
He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
B
believers
Guest
But there’s nothing you can do. Jesus has already done it all. You just have to trust in Him. Our salvation is complete if you truly believe and obey. That’s the gift.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
B
believers
Guest
You’re taking this verse out of context. I don’t understand how this verse could refer to your priests. I could easily say that it applies to my pastors and not your priests.
A
AlegreFe
Guest
We HAVE to do something to show our FAITH.
Now I know you pray right? Of course. Your prayers are “works” for your faith.Everytime you quote scripture, I can turn around and COMPLETE the scripture verse to put it in full context. After that I could add scripture verses from other books to put context even further. You see, we Catholics use the WHOLE Bible including Old Testament.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
9 it is not from works, so no one may boast.
10 For we are his handiwork, created in
Christ Jesus for the good works that
God has prepared in advance, that we
should live in them. Eph 2:8-10
24 See how a person is justified by works
and not by faith alone.
26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead,
so also faith without works is dead. Jas 2:24, 26
You never answered my question about who your authority is here on earth to tell you what scripture verses mean. How do you know that it is NOT in the bible? Who told you it wasn’t? And don’t say that god did because it’s his word. That doesn’t cut it. You need someone visible here on earth.
You’ve read the OT right? Well didn’t God appoint a prime minister for his people? Yes He did. With that said, Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Jesus did that by appointing Peter our “prime minister” here on earth. Peter has successors and right now we have Pope Benedict XVI as Peter’s successor.
Again, who told you that those verses do NOT mean what we say it means?
There are so many different denominations of Protestantism. Which one of those is right? And how do they know? How do you know? The Holy Spirit is NOT confused. Jesus Christ gave His Church the Guarentee of the Holy Spirit to pass on His teachings starting with the Apostles. That Church is the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC & Apostolic Church.
The burden of proof is on YOU.
I
IHS
Guest
You see Gods Word is a two edged sword. It is powerful and is given to every believer to use.So my authority here on this earth comes from above.I fix my eyes on Jesus and follow Him. The problem is Catholics hold tradition equal or above the Word of God.As for me I will I will follow Gods Word verses tradition. Purgatory is a man made doctrine that was invented by the Catholic Church as a means of raising money so that indulgences could be sold.It is a way to keep people under bondage in the church.That’s a good one!
What kind of authority here on earth do you have to tell you about the teachings of Jesus Christ?
We Catholics have the Magisterium of the Church. God’s Word was revealed to us through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition and they are taught through the Magisterium of the Catholic Church by the power of the Holy Spirit.
B
believers
Guest
I claim that the Word of God is the ONLY authority and not your religion. Your religion claims Authority. So the burden of proof is on you.We HAVE to do something to show our FAITH.
Everytime you quote scripture, I can turn around and COMPLETE the scripture verse to put it in full context. After that I could add scripture verses from other books to put context even further. You see, we Catholics use the WHOLE Bible including Old Testament.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
9 it is not from works, so no one may boast.
10 For we are his handiwork, created in
Christ Jesus for the good works that
God has prepared in advance, that we
should live in them. Eph 2:8-10
24 See how a person is justified by works
and not by faith alone.
26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead,
so also faith without works is dead. Jas 2:24, 26
You never answered my question about who your authority is here on earth to tell you what scripture verses mean. How do you know that it is NOT in the bible? Who told you it wasn’t? And don’t say that god did because it’s his word. That doesn’t cut it. You need someone visible here on earth.
You’ve read the OT right? Well didn’t God appoint a prime minister for his people? Yes He did. With that said, Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Jesus did that by appointing Peter our “prime minister” here on earth. Peter has successors and right now we have Pope Benedict XVI as Peter’s successor.
Again, who told you that those verses do NOT mean what we say it means?
There are so many different denominations of Protestantism. Which one of those is right? And how do they know? How do you know? The Holy Spirit is NOT confused. Jesus Christ gave His Church the Guarentee of the Holy Spirit to pass on His teachings starting with the Apostles. That Church is the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC & Apostolic Church.
The burden of proof is on YOU.
M
Mr.Ex_Nihilo
Guest
S
Sixtus
Guest
I refer you to James 5: 16
With all due respects, unless you have personally experienced the very moving healing ministry for yourself, you are not in a position to comment.
The Priest of God may be the administrator but it becomes a very personal encounter between the penitent and the Holy Spirit of His Saviour. The Priest is still there but pales into the background, in what [for me] becomes a very moving, mind-blowing experience.
I cannot describe it because there are not words in the English Language which adequately explain it.
I apologise for going off topic but felt I had to respond to the comment above
J
jmcrae
Guest
Jesus was speaking to the Apostles in that passage.
Our priests received their authority from the Apostles, when the Apostles appointed successors to carry on their work, and those successors in their turn passed it down, right on up to this present generation, who in their own turn are already passing that same Apostolic authority down to the new upcoming generation.
Acts 1:15-26 shows them appointing a successor for Judas, so it’s clear from that that the offices that Jesus appointed them to were intended to continue on beyond their personal deaths - and when Jesus appointed Peter to be Pope in Matthew 16:18, He quoted directly from Isaiah 22:22, which is speaking of the successors of the office of Prime Minister in King David’s Judah and Israel. Jesus was handing over the “keys of the kingdom” to Peter, with the expectation that he would pass them down to the next generation, and to all future generations until His return in glory on the Judgement Day.
Your pastors, by contrast, appointed themselves for the most part - they received no authorization from anyone who was linked through time to the Apostles. Perhaps they imagine that God appointed them directly, but in any case, there is no identifiable “chain of command” or even any kind of visible source for their authority.
H
HailMary
Guest
Protestant pastors are “mini-popes” as I like to call them.
S
Sixtus
Guest
Hail Mary, you are closer to the truth than you realise.
The Pope is called ‘the Vicar of Christ’. In some Protestant denominations, there is a vicar in every parish. Put more succinctly, a pope in every parish.
Now if every pope [vicar] speaks ex-cathedra, that easily explains why there are 33,000 protestant denominations and 78,000 competing interpretations of Sacred Scriptures among the Protestant faithful: rolleyes:
H
HailMary
Guest
I’m sure this has been quoted already:
2 Maccabees 12: 43-46
2 Maccabees 12: 43-46
A
AlegreFe
Guest
Who is your authority here on earth. God left someone here on earth in charge. I know he did not put you in charge. Protestants leave churches and start up their own all the time. They do this because they follow their own interpretation. So if they don’t like something in one church they just go to another church. And some even start their own out of their own arrogance.
God revealed His Word to us in two ways, through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. So Tradition IS part of the Word of God. The “Word” is not the bible in the way that you make it sound in your comments. The Word is Jesus Christ.
Divine Revelation
Dogmatic Constitution On Divine Revelation
What do you think that the early Christians did back in Jesus’ day? Did they have Bibles like you and I have right now? NO. They relied on Sacred Tradition. The Word of God came from Tradition. The Church was here long before the Bible was. They HEARD the Word of God. There were many who didn’t even know how to read. The Gospel was handed down or passed on, which in turn is TRADITION.
This “belief” makes me laugh and at the same time it makes me very upset. There is no “bondage” in the Catholic Church. One cannot have Freedom without boundaries. That would be having license to do whatever you want. God would never have it that way.
It is true that there was abuse of indulgences. But the priest that was selling indulgences was not acting out of obedience to the teachings of the Catholic Church. All Martin Luther had to do was report this priest and for this priest to be reprimanded and then for the selling of indulgences to stop.
Purgatory
Scripture Catholic - Purgatory
The Council of Trent happened because of the selling of indulgences among other reasons. The issue was addressed.
One Catholic Priest does not a Church Doctrine make. There are many Catholics who do not believe in certain things that the Catholic Church teaches. Just because they don’t, does not mean that the Catholic Church does not teach it.
The selling of those indulgences was wrong but again, that priest was not practicing according to Church teachings.
A
AlegreFe
Guest
The Catholic Church did NOT make up the doctrine of Purgatory.
Here is something for all Christians to read. It’s kind of long, so unless you have more time tonight to read you can save the link in your favorites and read it later hopefully. I will just put a snippet from it right here.
A Seer’s Actual Experience in Purgatory
…
I remind the reader, Our Lord told how Purgatory exists in His
parables. There are the countless testimonies given by people
brought back to life, warning against the pending sorrows for
sins unatoned for! But, people want to deny history as a
fabrication of the “Catholic Empire,” inventing additional ways to
keep people spiritually enslaved.
Ignorance and stubbornness keep so many good people from
seeing the truth when it is put in front of them.
…
"…
When we are exposed to the condition of our immortal souls, we
will respond only two ways. If we are honest, we will see the full
extent of that which we can atone to make ourselves pure to
enter eternal life.
It is those who will refuse to accept accountabilibty of themselves
that cast themselves into hell to defy the Divine Love that seeks
our humility to atone for our offences against God and man!"
…
If you don’t believe in Purgatory now, you will believe it when you die. You would not be able to help but to WANT to be purified by the consuming fires of God in Purgatory.
God is Mercy. You can contemplate on the face of Jesus in my signature. That image is the image of the Divine Mercy. I’m sure you know that if it wasn’t for God’s Mercy, we would all end up in Hell. That is why Purgatory is there for us so that we can be purified before entering Heaven.
Here is something for all Christians to read. It’s kind of long, so unless you have more time tonight to read you can save the link in your favorites and read it later hopefully. I will just put a snippet from it right here.
A Seer’s Actual Experience in Purgatory
…
I remind the reader, Our Lord told how Purgatory exists in His
parables. There are the countless testimonies given by people
brought back to life, warning against the pending sorrows for
sins unatoned for! But, people want to deny history as a
fabrication of the “Catholic Empire,” inventing additional ways to
keep people spiritually enslaved.
Ignorance and stubbornness keep so many good people from
seeing the truth when it is put in front of them.
…
"…
When we are exposed to the condition of our immortal souls, we
will respond only two ways. If we are honest, we will see the full
extent of that which we can atone to make ourselves pure to
enter eternal life.
It is those who will refuse to accept accountabilibty of themselves
that cast themselves into hell to defy the Divine Love that seeks
our humility to atone for our offences against God and man!"
…
If you don’t believe in Purgatory now, you will believe it when you die. You would not be able to help but to WANT to be purified by the consuming fires of God in Purgatory.
God is Mercy. You can contemplate on the face of Jesus in my signature. That image is the image of the Divine Mercy. I’m sure you know that if it wasn’t for God’s Mercy, we would all end up in Hell. That is why Purgatory is there for us so that we can be purified before entering Heaven.
- Status