Why do Protestants pray to pieces of cloth?

[JonNC]

I have one more request or suggestion for the Catholics and Protestants who are reading this discussion and maybe to carry into all the other Catholic and Protestant discussions where vehemence often gets the better of charity.

First we should all ask ourselves a simple question. Do you want to please Jesus in what you say and do and think? It seems like a dumb question, but you never know what crazy theologies are out there. Maybe some people think it does not matter or that it is impossible to please God. For those, scripture says He will tell those who inherit eternal life, “Well done, good and faithful servant”. Do you want to hear God speak those words to you when you meet Him and stand before Him? I think most everyone reading this would say they do.

If that is the case then we should ask ourselves what it is that God wants us to be doing with one another. Would He rather have us argue with one another, or pray for one another? I suppose you could do both. But sometimes the arguments seem endless to me, and futile. I have won a lot of theological arguments or debates. That usually does not result in the opponent becoming Catholic. Losing debates does not usually result in a person changing their religion. Here is why. If I can not answer a challenge to my faith all that proves is I don’t have the answer. It does not prove there is none. It is the witness of love that changes hearts. The reason I believe is that Jesus came here and demonstrated His love for us. It changes and breaks my stony heart.

Let’s try this. All the Protestants and Catholics who are engaged in the ongoing argument promise to pray for one another. What is the eseence of what you want for your opponent in argument? Figure it out and say so. I am Catholic. What I want for all Protestants is heaven. That is what is in my will. I hope everyone receives grace, mercy and love. I hope you will live grace filled lives of holiness. Once people know that the intentions of others for them a good, it is much easier to discuss matters of faith without it becoming acrimonious and maybe even to do what Saint Paul tells us, “Be of one mind, agree on all things”.

I have a suggestion

It’s funny. I was having exactly this same conversation on the phone today with a Catholic
member of this forum. We talk, not frequently enough, and find so much agreement between us. Our conversations are a blessing for us both, beacuase we see the Holy Spirit in each other.

Again, blessings to you for such positve and uplifting posts here.

Jon

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Her comment was rude. If you were to read up on Episcopalians, you would find that they really just do their own thing as long as they all worship the same, I was one of them. Please don’t leave. Learning about Catholicism and converting takes a life time … Just join us all in the social groups, the Spirituality forum, etc … stay away from this one, you will be much happier!

I guess you might know a thing or two about being rude. He first claimed Protestants prayed to kleenex and then claimed we were all sola scriptura and fundamentalists. I simply set him straight and was not rude at all. Of course, having left the Episcopal church you need to trash it. Perhaps you aren;t so very well versed in all things Episcopal if you would dismiss such a long standing faith tradition with such a cavalier remark.

 

[DJgang]

Your rude comments are telling people that they are stupid, that’s what is rude.

I don’t have to trash the EC, it’s trashing itself in the headlines everyday.

You need to be nice.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpbasilphx View Post
Cute troll No Baptists and other Protestants do not worship flags by saying pledges…

And by the same token, as Cluny was trying to say, Catholics don’t worship Mary or statutes either.
I know perfectly well what he`s saying. But it was rather an uncharitable way to do so.**

Generally trying to get people to think is considered uncharitable by those who don’t.

 

[grandfather]

It’s funny. I was having exactly this same conversation on the phone today with a Catholic
member of this forum. We talk, not frequently enough, and find so much agreement between us. Our conversations are a blessing for us both, beacuase we see the Holy Spirit in each other.

Again, blessings to you for such positve and uplifting posts here.

Jon

Jon,

There is another side of the coin. If we are not doing what pleases God we are doing what displeases Him. There is no neutral. He says we are either for Him or against Him. The pharisees thought they were living religious lives. Jesus called them hypocrits. Am I a hypocrit? Are youi? We might be.

Jesus laments, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often I would have gathered you together like a hen gathers her chicks. But they would not be gathered. What is the opposite of gathered? It is separated. The Church is the the New Jerusalem, the City come down from heaven we are to build in this world. We are separated. Does anyone see that God forbids this? Read what Jesus said on the night before He died. He commands His followers over and over again to be one. The mission of the Church in the world is compromised. He says if we are one then the world will know it is He who sends us. We are not one. Denominationalism is a grave disorder. Disunity not only does not please God, but it offends Him. We should be terrified whenver we cause division. Do our words help or hinder unity? Are they helping or hurting? I think Protestants and Catholics are guilty of impeding the work of the Holy Spirit, which among other things is to make us one.
Are we self righteous or do we love one another? It is one or the other. Do we have rancorous and acrimonious thoughts and feelings, or are we willing to sacrifice ourselves for the other?

Why is it that no one seems to be able to apologize. All the name calling about who is rude or not is only a sign of disorder. The man who volunteered to sign off and apologized has it right. Insulting comments are forgivable. It is amazing what a genuine apology can do to calm fuming snitwits. But I think we would prefer to do battle. God be merciful.

 

[JonNC]

Jon,

There is another side of the coin. If we are not doing what pleases God we are doing what displeases Him. There is no neutral. He says we are either for Him or against Him. The pharisees thought they were living religious lives. Jesus called them hypocrits. Am I a hypocrit? Are youi? We might be.

Jesus laments, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often I would have gathered you together like a hen gathers her chicks. But they would not be gathered. What is the opposite of gathered? It is separated. The Church is the the New Jerusalem, the City come down from heaven we are to build in this world. We are separated. Does anyone see that God forbids this? Read what Jesus said on the night before He died. He commands His followers over and over again to be one. The mission of the Church in the world is compromised. He says if we are one then the world will know it is He who sends us. We are not one. Denominationalism is a grave disorder. Disunity not only does not please God, but it offends Him. We should be terrified whenver we cause division. Do our words help or hinder unity? Are they helping or hurting? I think Protestants and Catholics are guilty of impeding the work of the Holy Spirit, which among other things is to make us one.
Are we self righteous or do we love one another? It is one or the other. Do we have rancorous and acrimonious thoughts and feelings, or are we willing to sacrifice ourselves for the other?

Why is it that no one seems to be able to apologize. All the name calling about who is rude or not is only a sign of disorder. The man who volunteered to sign off and apologized has it right. Insulting comments are forgivable. It is amazing what a genuine apology can do to calm fuming snitwits. But I think we would prefer to do battle. God be merciful.

Everyone on this forum or joining CAF should be required to read our short exchange here. I could not agree with you more.

Jon

 

[grandfather]

Everyone on this forum or joining CAF should be required to read our short exchange here. I could not agree with you more.

Jon

So then what shall we do about it? The status quo is unacceptable. We get used to what is and think that is how it will always be. Christians have been separated for so long they think it is acceptable or normal and just the way it is. This is a travesty. We must all long for, pray to God for and work for unity to be restored. God help us if we don’t.

The reason our civilization is going down the tubes is its foundation, which is the Christian religion is fractured and divided. I can prove this, but it would take a very long post.

What are we going to do about getting out of the way of the Holy Spirit who would unite us, or even help out?

Jesus made promises to His Church. He said to His apostles that there was much that He wanted to tell them, but they could not bear it yet, understand. He promised to send them the Holy Spirit and be with them until the end of time. He promised to lead them into all truth. This means that His Church over all the ages has never believed false doctrine, or His promises are false. She can never believe and teach lies. If we are going to be reunited we need to know truth. We need a way to know what is true. Error is implicit in denominationalism. There has to be a church somewhere whose doctrines are all true, or Jesus’s promises are false. I met a Baptist minsiter once who told me no denomination had all of its doctrines correct and it was arrogant to think one did. This of course contradicts Jesus, but I asked him if some of his doctrines that he and his denomination taught were false. He said they were. I asked which of his doctrines were false. He looked at me as if I were an idiot and said if he knew he would no longer believe them. I said, if you do not know which of your beliefs are false, then you do not know which are true. So we come to the question. We will be united in truth, but how do we know it? Please do not say the Bible will guide us. That is the recipe for denominationlaism and division. History proves that. What does the Bible say about how we will find truth?

Truth is a perfection of God. Jesus says He is the truth. He is Love. Love is a divine perfection. If we really know God we will know truth and love. If we do not we can not love one another either. This thought will lead to an understanding of sacrifice. In desiring the good of others, and God’s will we become willing to give ourselves for it. He said we must take up our crosses and follow Him if we are to be worthy of Him. This is a good thing to be thinking about as we approach Holy Week and follow in His bloody footsteps, God bless you.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Your rude comments are telling people that they are stupid, that’s what is rude.

I don’t have to trash the EC, it’s trashing itself in the headlines everyday.

You need to be nice.

Telling someone that are uninformed about a faith is not calling them stupid. It is telling them they are uninformed. Quite a bit of difference.

You continue to be rude. I wonder why one needs to hate the tradition they left just because they have found one they like better?

You need to be nice.

 

[DJgang]

Telling someone that are uninformed about a faith is not calling them stupid. It is telling them they are uninformed. Quite a bit of difference.

You continue to be rude. I wonder why one needs to hate the tradition they left just because they have found one they like better?

You need to be nice.

Hate Wow, must admit that I didn’t see that coming.

I’ll have to tell my former Episcopal priest the next time we have conversation that he must hate the EC as well since he is the one who also shares Queen Elizabeth’s teaching.

I will allow you now to have the last word. But I couldn’t let it go by you assuming that I hate the EC, I do not … it was a stopping point for me on my journey home. I am very blessed by the people that I met and continue to know today …

Hate is a very strong word, it’s the opposite of love. Funny, but I don’t allow my children to use the word. Now, I’m being accused of hating a church.

Anyway, I’m signing off because I really see no sense to talk to you or anyone else on this forum.

Stupid or uninformed doesn’t matter to me … it’s just not my place to tell people, I have better things to do in life … ya know?

God bless you SpiritMeadow … may your spirit be filled on this forum and the conversations that you have here.

Dana