Why do Protestants refuse to pray for the departed (dead)?

[twopekinguys]

I wouldn’t worry about that “chaplain”. You are as much of a minister as he/she was. Those self ordained ministers do not have a calling from God. They call themselves to do what they perceive as God’s work yet in reality is simply their own.

Do you realize that many “chaplains” are ordained clergy of different faiths? Do you realize that Catholic clergy are assigned to hospitals as “chaplains”?

My grandfather was a Presbyterian minister, and a hospital chaplain. Are you saying he wasn’t called to do God’s work, or that he didn’t have a calling from God?

Based on the limited information given in the OP, I think you may have jumped to an unsubstantiated conclusion.

 

[Kristin234]

Do you realize that many “chaplains” are ordained clergy of different faiths? Do you realize that Catholic clergy are assigned to hospitals as “chaplains”?

My grandfather was a Presbyterian minister, and a hospital chaplain. Are you saying he wasn’t called to do God’s work, or that he didn’t have a calling from God?

Based on the limited information given in the OP, I think you may have jumped to an unsubstantiated conclusion.

Yup my uncle is a Catholic priest and he is also a chaplain at a hospital. He is most definitely not self ordained and I believe he is doing God’s work.

My pastor is also a chaplain at a hospital. He isn’t self ordained. He went to seminary school and has his doctorate in theology.

Also, when you are preaching the gospel and telling people about Jesus Christ you are doing God’s work. Just because you aren’t an ordained clergy doesn’t mean you can’t/don’t do His work.

 

[stewstew03]

I was responding to a poster that said those believers that died are worshiping in heaven. I responded saying I know that believers are worshiping in heaven but they are still physically dead to me.

I never said I know specific people that are worshiping in heaven. I was talking in general

So, they are saints who are alive in Heaven and who are worshiping God. You pray for them and you love them.

If they are alive in Heaven and worshiping God, and you pray for them, and you love them, why would you not ask them to pray for you? What am I missing…?

:bible1:

 

[Stilldreamn]

So, they are saints who are alive in Heaven and who are worshiping God. You pray for them and you love them.

If they are alive in Heaven and worshiping God, and you pray for them, and you love them, why would you not ask them to pray for you? What am I missing…?

:bible1:

Wayward Lutheran though I am, I frequently ask Saint Monica to add her prayers to mine in asking for health and recovery for several people close to me. Her example of patience reminds me that prayers are answered and God is always in control.

 

[JonNC]

Wayward Lutheran though I am, I frequently ask Saint Monica to add her prayers to mine in asking for health and recovery for several people close to me. Her example of patience reminds me that prayers are answered and God is always in control.

Wayward? Not really. While I never prayed to St. Peregrine, I have kept his likeness in my wallet for 6 years, beginning when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer, and have prayed to God that He hear the saint’s prayers for those of us who have dealt with or are dealing with cancer. Asking the Lord to hear the prayers of all the members of the communion of saints is quite Lutheran.

Jon

 

[crystal_waters]

Heres a website why catholics pray for the deceased (the souls in purgatory ) and how in return they pray for us

missionbell.homestead.com/afavourgrantedbytheholysouls.html

 

[Kristin234]

So, they are saints who are alive in Heaven and who are worshiping God. You pray for them and you love them.

If they are alive in Heaven and worshiping God, and you pray for them, and you love them, why would you not ask them to pray for you? What am I missing…?

:bible1:

What you are missing is that I never claimed I pray for them. If you read my earlier post I said that NCC pray for the families instead of those who passed because since we do not believe in purgatory we believe that they either go to heaven or hell and that our prayers won’t change that.

I don’t ask them to pray for me because 1. I do not know who exactly made it to heaven and who did not. 2. I do not believe that they can see/hear what is going on. Just because they are alive in heaven and worshiping God doesn’t mean it’s a two way communication like I have here with people who are physically alive.

 

[rinnie]

Most Protestants…at least most of whom I am acquainted, pray for the dead in a less formal way…we pray that they find rest in the Hands of God…we pray they know peace at last…to know joy and rest from their labor…to dweill in the Light.

Hi Pub, that was truly beautiful.

I wish people knew that one prayer could save our dearly departed in Purgatory thousands of years. ONE PRAYER. That is pretty awesome.

 

[stewstew03]

What you are missing is that I never claimed I pray for them. If you read my earlier post I said that NCC pray for the families instead of those who passed because since we do not believe in purgatory we believe that they either go to heaven or hell and that our prayers won’t change that.

I don’t know what NCC is but, you are correct - you did not say you prayed for the dead, you said you don’t mind praying for the dead. So it doesn’t sound like you have a problem with the theology behind praying for the dead - is that correct?

I don’t ask them to pray for me because 1. I do not know who exactly made it to heaven and who did not.

But, you said in post #54:

I know that they are most definitely worshiping in heaven. I never denied that. I also know that they are alive in heaven even though they are physically dead. I also never denied that.

How do you reconcile those two statements? You don’t know who exactly made it to heaven, but you know they are most definitely worshiping in heaven?

1. I do not believe that they can see/hear what is going on. Just because they are alive in heaven and worshiping God doesn’t mean it’s a two way communication like I have here with people who are physically alive.

Based on what? Why wouldn’t someone in Heaven be able to comprehend what’s happening on earth?

Who are the “cloud of witnesses” described in Hebrews 12:1?

[BIBLEDRB]Hebrews 12:1[/BIBLEDRB]

What do you make of the rich man in Hades in Luke 16:19-30?

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 16:27-28[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[AbideWithMe]

Hi Pub, that was truly beautiful.

I wish people knew that one prayer could save our dearly departed in Purgatory thousands of years. ONE PRAYER. That is pretty awesome.

Rinnie and others—

While, being an evangelical I do pray for deceased loved ones, it’s these sorts of statements that make me uneasy with some Catholic beliefs about praying for the deceased. If possible to do so without derailing the thread too much, can someone please explain this belief that one prayer could save another person thousands of years in Purgatory?

 

[stewstew03]

Rinnie and others—

While, being an evangelical I do pray for deceased loved ones, it’s these sorts of statements that make me uneasy with some Catholic beliefs about praying for the deceased. If possible to do so without derailing the thread too much, can someone please explain this belief that one prayer could save another person thousands of years in Purgatory?

It would be the same as if an evangelical pastor told his congregation that one prayer (the sinner’s prayer) could save them from thousands of years in hell.

…and they prayed to the Lord to completely pardon the sin of their dead companions.

2 Maccabees 12:42

Of course, we don’t know whether or not the sinner’s prayer, or the prayer for a deceased loved one, places someone in Heaven for eternity, but prayer is just as much (if not more) about changing us, as it is about petitioning God.

 

[Georgia]

Some of it goes back to what is accepted as the canon of scripture. My former independent Fundamentalist Baptist church would not accept Maccabees. In fact, it would read nothing other than a 66 book King James Bible.

 

[Holly3278]

Well, Protestants do not believe in Purgatory so that may be why. Protestants believe that once a person dies, they are judged and then sent directly to either Heaven or Hell with no purgation in between being judged and going to Heaven. This really makes no sense though. Not all sins will send you to Hell and also, there is still going to be reparation for sins that must be made for sins that you do commit when you die (for most people anyway). Therefore, if you die with venial sins on your soul, you’ll still get to Heaven eventually but you must be purged of those sins before you can enter Heaven because God cannot allow sin or anything imperfect into Heaven. His holiness would not tolerate it.

 

[JonNC]

Well, Protestants do not believe in Purgatory so that may be why. Protestants believe that once a person dies, they are judged and then sent directly to either Heaven or Hell with no purgation in between being judged and going to Heaven. This really makes no sense though. Not all sins will send you to Hell and also, there is still going to be reparation for sins that must be made for sins that you do commit when you die (for most people anyway). Therefore, if you die with venial sins on your soul, you’ll still get to Heaven eventually but you must be purged of those sins before you can enter Heaven because God cannot allow sin or anything imperfect into Heaven. His holiness would not tolerate it.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/dialogue-with-others/ecumenical/lutheran/hope-eternal-life.cfm

Jon

 

[JHow]

As a former Protestant, I used to pray for dead relatives anyway. I don’t think I thought about the theology if it. Looking back perhaps I should have been more consistent in my thinking. I prayed for them when they were alive - it seemed like they could use prayers after death, too. I would bet that many Protestants have probably done similar.

 

[JustaServant]

Some of it goes back to what is accepted as the canon of scripture. My former independent Fundamentalist Baptist church would not accept Maccabees. In fact, it would read nothing other than a 66 book King James Bible.

Except the original KJV had 72.

 

[Kristin234]

I don’t know what NCC is but, you are correct - you did not say you prayed for the dead, you said you don’t mind praying for the dead. So it doesn’t sound like you have a problem with the theology behind praying for the dead - is that correct?

NCC = Non Catholic Christian.

It doesn’t bother me when my Catholic family and friends pray for the dead. I don’t do it and I already explained why, but I do not believe it is causing any harm by doing so, so I don’t mind.

But, you said in post #54:

How do you reconcile those two statements? You don’t know who exactly made it to heaven, but you know they are most definitely worshiping in heaven?

I don’t know who exactly is in heaven. That is why asking specific people in heaven to pray for me makes no sense to me because I don’t know if these specific people are even in heaven. Key word is specific.

When I said they are most definitely worshiping in heaven I was talking about in general - those who did make it to heaven are alive and worshiping. I never claimed that I know these people. Therefore my two statements do not contradict each other. I can know that there are people in heaven that are alive and worshiping and not know who exactly these believers are.

Based on what? Why wouldn’t someone in Heaven be able to comprehend what’s happening on earth?

Who are the “cloud of witnesses” described in Hebrews 12:1?

[BIBLEDRB]Hebrews 12:1[/BIBLEDRB]

What do you make of the rich man in Hades in Luke 16:19-30?

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 16:27-28[/BIBLEDRB]

Based on the Bible. The Bible tells us that those who die know nothing and that they have no part in anything that happens under the sun. The Bible also tells us that Job’s father did not know what was going on with his children after he died.

The great cloud of witnesses are those believers who are in heaven. That does not mean they see what is going on. They are the ones whose faith has been witnessed to us. Here is a quote that I found that explains it nicely:

" the great cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 11 "were spoken of as those who had witness borne to them (Heb 11:2, 3, 4, 5, 39); here they are themselves witnesses. Not that those who are now with Christ are spectators of earthly persons, but that, as to the persons mentioned in chapter 11 , their lives of faith are so recorded in the Old Testament narratives that they seem to be living spectators urging us on to run as they did. The inspired record is like an amphitheater, and, as with the cloud of onlookers of old, so these heroes of faith utter their voices in the sacred page. As we read of their trials and triumphs, they, so to speak, “compass us about.”

Is it hard to believe that the rich man knew his brothers were sinning before he died and after he died he wanted to warn them? Just because he wanted to warn his brothers does not mean he was able to see/hear everything.

 

[adopted_heir]

… But he was able to warn them …

 

[Georgia]

Except the original KJV had 72.

Quite a few people don’t know that the Bible was set with more books. Until I started looking at the Church, I thought exactly what I had been taught all my life, that the Bible was 66 books and the Catholics added the others.

My fundamentalist church never once taught the history of how the Bible came to be. It was taken for granted that the 66 book KJV was the full and final scripture. Anything else had to be an evil invention.

 

[Kristin234]

… But he was able to warn them …

No he wasn’t. The Bible tells us the opposite.

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”