Why do Protestants say Catholicism leads to hell?

[myfavoritmartin]

BINGO!..The teaching authority of his Church. When in doubt always take it to the Church!

Listen to stephen Michael, I’m not trying to corner you.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Oh your wrong on this one Michael, nothing in that chapter or in chapter 30 does anything to change what Clement stated in 32…Which was VERY clear!

"And we who through his will have been called in Christ Jesus** are justified, not by ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart, but by faith**, by which all men from the beginning have been justified by Almighty God, to whom be glory world without end. Amen.

And because we have been justified by faith, we ought to do the works that God has given us to do. Faith working through love, just like the Bible says.

 

[August_AWeitzel]

Teflon-I did not say that baptism is the only necessary sacrament.

It is very dangerous to purport that only Catholics will be saved.

The gate is narrow-and I try to pray hard for all unbelievers that they may be given a chance to convert here, or before God at their death. God is Mercy in Himself, we must trust in His Mercy and Goodness. God will ask-How much did you love me and your fellow man? God will judge, God will purify.

(And who knows how much a painful, contracted illness goes to alleviate one’s time in purgatory-or what painful experiences await others?-I just pray that they are given relief and are able to join in union with Jesus, His Angels, Saints, and His Mother, Mary.)

We are all judged by what we know, what we learn, our ability to learn and also by what we reject. The Catholic Church offers the most complete Truth to follow. However, there will be many Christians, and Jews and Muslims and even some LDS who will enter, passing some catholics who disdain others for their beliefs.

As Catholics, we are given much, and therefore much MORE is expected of us.

How many Catholics go to daily Mass and receive the Holy Eucharist? How many pray the Rosary daily? How many read Holy Scripture daily? How many fast regularly? For that matter, how many go to Mass on Sat. night or Sunday each and every week.? How often do they receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation-once a year or weekly, or monthly?How many pray The Divine Mercy Chaplet daily for the conversion of sinners?How many abstain from ABC?How many support the Church generously ? How many instruct their children in the Faith? How many visit the sick, or those in prison? What extra measures do they take to help the widowed and the orphans.? The abandoned spouses and their children?

Jesus gave us explicit lessons on how to follow Him-Follow the commandments and live the Beatitudes. And He promised to always be with us in the Holy Eucharist and He sends His Holy Spirit to continually renew us…

Pray for Holy Priests

As Catholics strive to perfect themselves in their faith, they will guide others to it by the examples shown in their lives, not by criticizing others of different faiths.

AMEN

 

[August_AWeitzel]

The “five solas” come specifically from Lutheranism (which is the original form of Protestantism), do they not?

Methodists (which step from the Holiness Movement in Anglicanism, which may or may not be Protestant depending on who you talk to) hold to the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, and Fundamentalists (who do not consider themselves to be Protestant, although they certainly have historical roots in the Calvinist tradition) hold to the Seven Fundamentals.

Isn’t faith a supernatul gift of God, fragile and in need of nurshisement, easily lost or distroyed by our own free will?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Hilarious an evangelic quoting ECF’s and a Catholic proof texting scripture…

Well, I was a Bible thumpin’ Baptist once upon a time. Old habits die hard, I guess.

You realise the first two verses do nothing to support your pov, right?

Do you mean the Philippians verse and James 2:17; or James 2:17-18?

I still don’t see what is eternally damnable about allowing God to work through me for His Glory and to bring souls to His Kingdom.

 

[PetersKeys]

Do you realize that you are teaching something that the Catholic Church doesn’t? Although you are about 90% right, the Church teaches that some muslims and non-Christians can go to heaven, if they’ve never received the Gospel, then they are judged by God on how they would have reacted had they received the Gospel (If I’m saying this right).

That’s the way it is with our Protestant brothers. I believe the Church doesn’t hold them responsible for rejecting what they have been taught is a false church, as opposed to those Christians that reject the Church even while understanding that the Church is the One True Church (Et-Tu-Martin Luther?)

Muslims have already heard about Jesus Christ and are not ignorant of the Gospel since Jesus is talked about in the Koran. 99% of all muslims know about Christ and the Gospel. A good amount of the world already knows about Jesus and the crucifiction. Maybe In some places like New Gunuiea or certain tribes that are cut off from society. But most people already know.

And it dosen’t go against what the Church teaches. The Church teaches Christ is the only way to heaven. The Church says dogmatically that there is “no salvation outside of the church” EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS
. That is binding.

Read CCC 846, Unam Sanctum, and the Fourth Lateran Counsel: The other two infallible declarations are as follows: There is one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved. Pope Innocent III, ex cathedra, (Fourth Lateran Council, 1215).

St. Irenaeus (130-202), Bishop and Martyr: “The Church is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account we are bound to avoid them . . . . We hear it declared of the unbelieving and the blinded of this world that they shall not inherit the world of life which is to come . . . . Resist them in defense of the only true and life giving faith, which the Church has received from the Apostles and imparted to her sons.”
St. Augustine (354-430), Bishop and Doctor of the Church: “No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the Name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.”

St. Fulgentius (468-533), Bishop: “Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only pagans, but also Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”

Pope St. Gregory the Great (590-604): “The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in Her and asserts that all who are outside of Her will not be saved.”

St. Francis of Assisi (1182-1226): “All who have not believed that Jesus Christ was really the Son of God are doomed. Also, all who see the Sacrament of the Body of Christ and do not believe it is really the most holy Body and Blood of the Lord . . . these also are doomed!”

St. Thomas Aquinas (1226-1274), the Angelic Doctor: There is no entering into salvation outside the Catholic Church, just as in the time of the Flood there was not salvation outside the Ark, which denotes the Church."

St. Louis Marie de Montfort (1673-1716): “There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Anyone who resists this truth perishes.”

St. Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621), Bishop and Doctor of the Church: “Outside the Church there is no salvation…therefore in the symbol (Apostles Creed) we join together the Church with the remission of sins: 'I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins”…For this reason the Church is compared to the Ark of Noah, because just as during the deluge, everyone perished who was not in the ark, so now those perish who are not in the Church."

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori (1696-1787), Bishop and Doctor of the Church: “All the misfortunes of unbelievers spring from too great an attachment to the things of life. This sickness of heart weakens and darkens the understanding, and leads to eternal ruin. If they would try to heal their hearts by purging them of their vices, they would soon receive light, which would show them the necessity of joining the Catholic Church, where alone is salvation. We should constantly thank the Lord for having granted us the gift of the true Faith, by associating us with the children of the Holy Catholic Church … How many are the infidels, heretics, and schismatics who do not enjoy the happiness of the true Faith! Earth is full of them and they are all lost!”

Pope Pius XII (1939-1958): Some say they are not bound by the doctrine which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing. Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation. Others finally belittle the reasonable character of the credibility of Christian Faith. These and like ERRORS, it is clear, have crept in among certain of our sons who are deceived by imprudent zeal for souls or by false science." (The dates for the two Popes are the years they reigned as Sovereign Pontiffs.)

Outside Christ no one is saved. Christ is our only hope. Muslims and Hindus are not ignorant of the Gospel.

 

[rlg94086]

Pope Clement…Now there is a Pope who clearly GOT it.

Indeed. He did not say we are justified by faith alone. He said that we are justified “**not by ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart.” **This is completely consistent with Church teaching and Scripture. All of the above quoted won’t save you, unless you have faith. Can you find a quote from Clement saying that we are justified by faith “alone?”

 

[myfavoritmartin]

And because we have been justified by faith, we ought to do the works that God has given us to do. Faith working through love, just like the Bible says.

AMEN my friend! what you said is not what your church preaches and teaches…both in Trent and also in you recent catechism that just came out, it’s clear that Justification encompasses Sanctification—so the two are confounded.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Indeed. He did not say we are justified by faith alone. He said that we are justified “**not by ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart.” **This is completely consistent with Church teaching and Scripture. All of the above quoted won’t save you, unless you have faith. Can you find a quote from Clement saying that we are justified by faith “alone?”

We are talking about justification not salvation.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Indeed. He did not say we are justified by faith alone. He said that we are justified “**not by ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart.” **This is completely consistent with Church teaching and Scripture. All of the above quoted won’t save you, unless you have faith. Can you find a quote from Clement saying that we are justified by faith “alone?”

He says what doesn’t which excludes pretty much everything I can think of, can you cite an example to make your point why he NEEDED in you opininion to say the term alone?

 

[daeve]

Why would you be surprised by this? Catholics have been taught for centuries by Catholic teachers that non-Catholics were all going to hell. I was taught that consistently throughout 12 years of Catholic school less than 50 years ago.

It seems kind of reaonable that they would teach the opposite.

On the other hand, I was never taught this. I can remember Sr. John Leonard in third grade telling us that a good Baptist will be in heaven long before a wishy washy Catholic. I was in grade school many years ago, since Sunday was the 50th anniversary of my First Communion.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

AMEN my friend! what you said is not what your church preaches and teaches…both in Trent and also in you recent catechism that just came out, it’s clear that Justification encompasses Sanctification—so the two are confounded.

Sounds like you don’t understand what the Church teaches, because what I said is sound Catholic theology. (If it wasn’t, some more educated Catholic would have corrected me by now.)

You still haven’t told me why I’m going to have to go to Hell for not differentiating justification and sanctification. Where in Scripture do we find them compared and contrasted? Where does Scripture say, “Thou shalt not confuse justification with sanctification or you will not inherit the Kingdom of God”?

 

[rlg94086]

We are talking about justification not salvation.

Understood, but they are intertwined - part of the same process. Or, do you think justification has no impact and/or is unimportant to one’s salvation?

As Catholics, if I understand correctly, we believe that Baptism with faith is initial justification and the final judgment is final justification.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Sounds like you don’t understand what the Church teaches, because what I said is sound Catholic theology. (If it wasn’t, some more educated Catholic would have corrected me by now.)

You still haven’t told me why I’m going to have to go to Hell for not differentiating justification and sanctification. Where in Scripture do we find them compared and contrasted? Where does Scripture say, “Thou shalt not confuse justification with sanctification or you will not inherit the Kingdom of God”?

Many would call it a false gospel, because your reliance is not only on faith but also your own doings…
Grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone.

 

[rlg94086]

He says what doesn’t which excludes pretty much everything I can think of, can you cite an example to make your point why he NEEDED in you opininion to say the term alone?

He doesn’t say that justification excludes works, he said we are not justified by works without faith, and then states we are justified by faith. That does not mean that faith without works is sufficient.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Many would call it a false gospel, because your reliance is not only on faith but also your own doings…
Grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone.

But it’s not my own doings, but what God does through me. I don’t understand why doing things for the glory and honor of God would somehow negate my salvation.

Grace alone? Certainly. No one is saved without Grace. Christ alone? Absolutely. He is the Worthy Lamb who was slain for our sins. Faith alone? That’s dead faith.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Understood, but they are intertwined - part of the same process. Or, do you think justification has no impact and/or is unimportant to one’s salvation?

As Catholics, if I understand correctly, we believe that Baptism with faith is initial justification and the final judgment is final justification.

Justification is of a mandatory importance and the bible repeatedly states we are justified by faith apart from the law that no man boast and you guys hide that by making as i mentioned Justification encompass sanctification…It still defies scripture.

An infant can no more display faith than a chair.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

But it’s not my own doings, but what God does through me. I don’t understand why doing things for the glory and honor of God would somehow negate my salvation.

By the same token then how can not doing something negate your salvation?

Grace alone? Certainly. No one is saved without Grace. Christ alone? Absolutely. He is the Worthy Lamb who was slain for our sins. Faith alone? That’s dead faith.

No! dead faith is saying you have faith but then not living a life that shows that truth, a real faith does the things of Christ, for being present with a real faith means you are indwelled with the HS therefore doing the works got predestined for you ephesians 2:10 says as much…

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[rlg94086]

Justification is of a mandatory importance and the bible repeatedly states we are justified by faith apart from the law that no man boast and you guys hide that by making as i mentioned Justification encompass sanctification…It still defies scripture.

Only if you rely on your own personal interpretation.

myfavoritmartin:

An infant can no more display faith than a chair.

How many infants and children are in hell under your theological viewpoint?

 

[jmcrae]

Many would call it a false gospel, because your reliance is not only on faith but also your own doings…
Grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone.

Which is it?

Or does “alone” not really mean “alone”?