Why do Protestants say Catholicism leads to hell?

[Church_Militant]

Smart evangelics understand exactly what you believe…
that your justification can NOT be seperated from sanctification and sanctification takes an effort on the part of the believer…ie works

Nah, the fact is that there are very few “Smart evangelics” when it comes to accurate understanding of either the Word of God or the teachings of the Catholic Church. This is something that has been proved here on CAF again, and again, and again…

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Only if you rely on your own personal interpretation.

Thats a cheap cop-out

How many infants and children are in hell under your theological viewpoint?

None but that is a whole different thread.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

. This is something that has been proved here on CAF again, and again, and again…

CAF yep your right CM one guy takes an opposing view and gets barragedby people and if he starts to corner ya’ll the thread gets closed, real biblical answers can’t come from this forum its just not a logical fact.

 

[rlg94086]

Thats a cheap cop-out

Not at all. You claim it defies Scripture, but it does not according to many, many theologians. I trust in the authority of the Church founded by Christ. Personally, that makes more sense to me than picking and choosing scriptural interpretation that fits what *I *think they should mean.

 

[Church_Militant]

AMEN my friend! what you said is not what your church preaches and teaches…both in Trent and also in you recent catechism that just came out, it’s clear that Justification encompasses Sanctification—so the two are confounded.

Hogwash… prove it, and I’ll make you eat your crow sandwich.

 

[AussieAnn]

With all Respect, we non-protestant biblical christians see you depending on another gospel ( Gal 1:6-8 ) where you are putting your faith in Mary and in “sanits” in heaven for your prayers. We see you giving Mary or the saints creadit for what only God should get credit for like deliverance or healings. We honestly see you as having a misguided faith in anything but Jesus.
QUOTE]

I think you have mistaken us praying TO Mary and the Saints as opposed to asking them to pray FOR us. We give them no credit in regards to our salvation we only thank them for praying for us. For example, do you have prayer groups? Do you pray for friends? For Family? Do you ever ask people to pray FOR you? Or for others? When friends/family/saints die and go to Heaven do you think they just sit up there doing nothing, not being allowed to pray for anyone or anything anymore? I think it is most reasonable to ask souls already in Heaven to please pray for us. It is the best place TO Pray. I can’t believe that Praying is banned in Heaven. We however DO NOT base our Salvation on this. I just thought I’d clear this up.

 

[Church_Militant]

Many would call it a false gospel, because your reliance is not only on faith but also your own doings…

This is the grossest misrepresentation of the catholic teachings and you cannot offer a single authentic Catholic document to prove your point, though as with most such allegations you wish it were true.

By all means support your allegation with authoritative documents.

I don’t think you can, but by all means knock yourself out.

Grace alone, faith alone

, Christ alone.Two out of three might be just fine in some things but when dealing with what the word of God actually says as well as the teachings of the Catholic Church, being wrong like that definitely constitutes a “gospel” that is different (and deficient) from that which the New Testament shows the apostles teaching and preaching.

But it’s not my own doings, but what God does through me. I don’t understand why doing things for the glory and honor of God would somehow negate my salvation.

Grace alone? Certainly. No one is saved without Grace. Christ alone? Absolutely. He is the Worthy Lamb who was slain for our sins. Faith alone? That’s dead faith.

 

[Church_Militant]

Justification is of a mandatory importance and the bible repeatedly states we are justified by faith apart from the law

that no man boast and you guys hide that by making as i mentioned Justification encompass sanctification…It still defies scripture.This is just more inaccurate hogwash, and as long as you have been around here you should know better.

There is absolutely not a whit of Catholic teaching that says anywhere that we are saved by our good works, but Our Lord sure as Vitam Aeternam plainly says that we will be judged by our works in Matthew 25:31-46, so don’t try to play that trash on us.

You can sit there and try to explain away the very words of Christ Himself to make it fit your community’s errant doctrine, but when the scripture is that straightforward, all you do is wreck any credibility you might ever have had.

An infant can no more display faith than a chair.

Yet since when has that been necessary? Look at the Jews. Jesus Christ Himself was circumcised on the 8th day in obedience to the direct command of God to do so. Did even Our Lord have to make some kind of profession of faith to become a member of the Jewish community of faith? Of course not! The very idea is ridiculous! Who made that profession of faith then?

Answer: His parents!

So then, if an infant can enter the community of faith, and does so by the very command of God Himself, and then the New Testament clearly tells that whole households were baptized which would include everyone from the Head of the family to the child of the slaves, (Look at the descriptions of those households mentioned in the Old Testament for examples!), then the argument against infant baptism (though off topic here) fails in the face of factual evidence.

I have an article on my blog that deals with this in some better detail, it’s called, The Case For Infant Baptism

 

[SyCarl]

Which is it?

Or does “alone” not really mean “alone”?

I do not say Catholicism leads to hell.

I am only going indicate how you can have 5 solas without contradiction, whether you agree with them or not.

1. We are saved for the glory of God alone.
2. We are saved by Christ alone.
3. We receive our salvation by grace alone.
4. We accept our salvation through faith alone.
5. We can learn of our salvation from scripture alone.

 

[emeraldisle]

Grace alone? Certainly. No one is saved without Grace. Christ alone? Absolutely. He is the Worthy Lamb who was slain for our sins. Faith alone? That’s dead faith.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for(not by) good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Eph 2:8-10

.

 

[Church_Militant]

By the same token then how can not doing something negate your salvation?

What? Like maybe not being baptized as the lord commands us and the apostles plainly preached?
Baptism~ Necessary or Not?

No! dead faith is saying you have faith but then not living a life that shows that truth, a real faith does the things** of Christ,** for being present with a real faith means you are indwelled with the HS therefore doing the works got predestined for you ephesians 2:8-10 says as much…

Look at his own words here. He’s describing the necessity of ***doing things ***as salvation issues, because without faith it is impossible to come to God and be saved. Look at that though…out of one side of his mouth he accuses us of salvation by works and out of the other side he sits there and tells you that those works are necessary for a person to be saved. (Welcome to modern post reformation theology 101. )

 

[myfavoritmartin]

There is absolutely not a whit of Catholic teaching that says anywhere that we are saved by our good works, but Our Lord sure as Vitam Aeternam plainly says that we will be judged by our works in Matthew 25:31-46, so don’t try to play that trash on us.

Judged by our works you bet…Not unto salvation though friend.

The RIGHTOUS will be judged by their works some will get no rewards (they’ll be embarrassed) but will be saved…Some will get many rewards.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

What? Like maybe not being baptized as the lord commands us and the apostles plainly preached?
Baptism~ Necessary or Not?

Look at his own words here. He’s describing the necessity of ***doing things ***as salvation issues, because without faith it is impossible to come to God and be saved. Look at that though…out of one side of his mouth he accuses us of salvation by works and out of the other side he sits there and tells you that those works are necessary for a person to be saved. (Welcome to modern post reformation theology 101. )

Baptism is ABSOLUTELY NOT a necessity.
Clement would agree on this point as well (works of holiness)

 

[myfavoritmartin]

What? Like maybe not being baptized as the lord commands us and the apostles plainly preached?
Baptism~ Necessary or Not?

Look at his own words here. He’s describing the necessity of ***doing things ***as salvation issues, because without faith it is impossible to come to God and be saved. Look at that though…out of one side of his mouth he accuses us of salvation by works and out of the other side he sits there and tells you that those works are necessary for a person to be saved. (Welcome to modern post reformation theology 101. )

I’ve never said such…DON’T put words in my mouth it makes you appear dishonest Michael. They are an indicator not a mandatory sanctifying instrument.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I’ll be back tomorrow CM I promise…

 

[Church_Militant]

CAF yep your right CM one guy takes an opposing view and gets barragedby people and if he starts to corner ya’ll the thread gets closed, real biblical answers can’t come from this forum its just not a logical fact.

Hogwash… you big :crying: baby, the fact is that the only time that stuff gets closed is when it gets off topic or when some gooney bird gets on here and starts the usual a-C drivel with nothing but vitriol and disrespect for both the Catholic faith and the faith of my Catholic brothers, sisters and I.

I have yet to see even one time when any n-C has even gotten close to “cornering us”, but I see a lot of people who want a free hand to trash talk our most holy faith with impunity. Heck… if I wanted that kind of treatment, I could just go to one of the n-C/a-C forums where they breed that garbage. No thanks, if you want the truth, you obviously know where to locate us.

Am I the only one that notices at this point that MFM has not even dealt with the things that I covered in my first post. No comment or apologetics on Matthew 25:31-46 and the passage in James. For a “Bible only” Christian one would think he’d have all the answers to those points.

 

[Church_Militant]

I’ll be back tomorrow CM I promise…

[SIGN1]Yay…[/SIGN1]

 

[GeorgiaPeach]

Am I the only one that notices at this point that MFM has not even dealt with the things that I covered in my first post. No comment or apologetics on Matthew 25:31-46 and the passage in James. For a “Bible only” Christian one would think he’d have all the answers to those points.

:yup: I noticed.

 

[rlg94086]

I do not say Catholicism leads to hell.

I am only going indicate how you can have 5 solas without contradiction, whether you agree with them or not.

1. We are saved for the glory of God alone.
2. We are saved by Christ alone.
3. We receive our salvation by grace alone.
4. We accept our salvation through faith alone.
5. We can learn of our salvation from scripture alone.

Question, for you SyCarl or any other Protestant/non-Catholic:

If I take the above “5 solas” for truth (hypothetically), by what reason would any Christian make a claim that Catholicism leads one to hell. Since we are justified by our faith “alone,” saved through faith and by grace and Christ alone, Catholics are also saved, are they not?

If not, please explain why Catholics are going to hell. Even if you believe the Sacraments of the Church are false, what evidence do you have that they would negate our saving/justifying faith? Surely, you are not claiming that a sinful non-Catholic Christian has saving/justifying faith, but a sinful Catholic Christian does not possess the same…

 

[Church_Militant]

Judged by our works you bet…Not unto salvation though friend.

The RIGHTOUS will be judged by their works some will get no rewards (they’ll be embarrassed) but will be saved…Some will get many rewards.

This is not at all what the Lord says in Matthew 25:31-46.

Not unto salvation? Mighty strange to me then that the passage plainly says that all of them are judged by that list of works and then either welcomed into the Kingdom of Heaven or rejected and sent off “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.”

If that isn’t unto salvation then I don’t know what is…