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flyersfan1088
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Like the title says, I’m curious why protestants say this in attacking the Catholic Church for “making up” doctrine. Thanks
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Philothea53
Guest
Because to say so discounts the Catholic understanding of the Immaculate Conception and Mary’s perpetual virginity. Anything to argue with Catholics about.
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Publisher
Guest
Yeah, that’s gotta be it!!!
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promethius95945
Guest
because they lack any inspired understanding of scripture and the direct links between the old testament and the new.
Mary is the new ark of the covenant… as such she could NEVER have had sex or other children without defiling the temple of God and fouling the resting place of the Lamb of God/High Priest of Christianity.
SOME protestants, however, in their eager willingness to slander the church, often fail to understand this simple relationship though.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Please be careful because you are doing exactly what you dont want us to do and that is slander our beliefs.
We just believe the Greek word that was used in the bible meant brothers not cousins.
Maybe just rethink using such strong language as the word slander–thanks
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water
Guest
a little note: sometimes it is bad not to know all English words, sometimes it is better not to know them.
It helps me a lot when I don’t understand some posts here on CAF.
I agree that choosing words to express your opinions is so important.
It helps me a lot when I don’t understand some posts here on CAF.
I agree that choosing words to express your opinions is so important.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
The word in the original text is ambiguous because it can be interpreted in different ways. In a tribal culture, which was the culture at the time, the distinction between your own children and those of your siblings is blurred. This familial responsibility is typical in some cultures to this very day.
The misinterpretation arises from misunderstanding.
The misinterpretation arises from misunderstanding.
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Singinbeauty
Guest
I am with ALLFORHIM on this… beware on making blanket claims against protestant belief systems and in the next breath complain when protestants do the same thing. Please.
Why, in some religions or beliefs, is sex SO dirty and unworthy of God and His perfect Holyness? I just don’t understand this. Sex isn’t dirty, especially when it is between a man and a woman who are married. Do you think of your own mother as dirty because of what she did to bring you into this world? Do you think you (if you have kids) are dirty for what needs to be done to have kids? I do not think of Mary as any less if she had sex and other children. She is, after all, human like the rest of us who needs a savior. Why does this defile her?
As do SOME catholics about protestants…
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Im with you. After all, God created sex for us to be pleasurable and to procreate. Why would God withhold that from Mary and Joseph? Especially because God created it for married couples.
P.S. My daughter thinks it is vile and disgusting that her parents are sexually active
She would kill me if she saw me write this.
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Eileen_T
Guest
In the Catholic Church marital intercourse is regarded as holy because we see it as a Sacrament.
Joseph was a righteous man, regarded as so because of his Faith and adherance to Jewish Law. Once he knew that Mary carried the God of the Universe in her womb, he would have hesitated to touch her at all. He would have seen her as the Ark of the New Covenant.
He would no more have had sex with her than he would have ever dared to enter the Holy of Holies in the Temple.
Protestantism kept the Bible but discarded 1500 years of Catholic teaching, including the writings of the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers.
Joseph was a righteous man, regarded as so because of his Faith and adherance to Jewish Law. Once he knew that Mary carried the God of the Universe in her womb, he would have hesitated to touch her at all. He would have seen her as the Ark of the New Covenant.
He would no more have had sex with her than he would have ever dared to enter the Holy of Holies in the Temple.
Protestantism kept the Bible but discarded 1500 years of Catholic teaching, including the writings of the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers.
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
In the Catholic Church marital intercourse is regarded as holy because we see it as a Sacrament.
I didnt realize sex was a sacrement. HMM that is the first I have ever heard this.
I can only speak for myself but I do follow apostolic teaching. The bible:thumbsup: The ECF’s, to me, were Godly men who also intrepretated the bible just the same as many do today and will continue to do till Christ comes back.
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Singinbeauty
Guest
But if it is as ambiguous as you say then WHY couldn’t it mean that she had other children?
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flyersfan1088
Guest
I didn’t know anyone still used that arguement. But anyway, here’s why it doesn’t.We just believe the Greek word that was used in the bible meant brothers not cousins.
Two of those called “brothers” of Jesus, James and Joseph, are identified as sons of another Mary, the wife of Clopas. Compare these three verses.
Matthew 13:55. Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:
John 19:25. Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen.
Matthew 27:56. Among whom was Mary Magdalen and Mary the mother of James and Joseph and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
How can this be? It can only be if they are cousins NOT brothers.
Also, why would Jesus give His mother to John at the foot of the cross instead of one of his siblings?
And yes, I cut and paste my own post from another thread.
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mrs_abbott
Guest
I guess it’s all about understanding the cultural setting that the Bible was written in. Life and times were VERY different back then.
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gus
Guest
If you believe that Joseph had relations with MaryI can only speak for myself but I do follow apostolic teaching. The bible:thumbsup: The ECF’s, to me, were Godly men who also intrepretated the bible just the same as many do today and will continue to do till Christ comes back.
Than the logical next conclusion would be Jesus couldn’t possible be conceived by the Holy Spirt.
(No devout Jew would possibly touch Mary)
than Jesus wasn’t God and Christianity is a sham.
Marian Doctrine came out of the prevention of heresies on the nature of Christ.
Remember this is a universal teaching of the Roman, Othrodox,and Occidental Church.
I fear for the souls of Chrstains who in the eagerness to put it to the hated Catholic Church
Do the work of the Anti-Christ
Please Read John 1 and 2 for a definition of Anti-Christ
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Eileen_T
Guest
The Sacrament of Marriage is an enduring sacrament. It is publicly solemnized in church in the presence of witnesses. But the sacrament is not fully constituted until it is consummated with sexual intercourse. An unconsummated marriage is not a valid marriage.
The Apostolic Fathers are called that because they are the ones who received their teaching directly from the Apostles. They interpreted the Bible the same way they heard it taught. They did not interpret the Bible each according to their own whim.I can only speak for myself but I do follow apostolic teaching. The bible
As I remarked earlier, we test all interpretation by the writings of those very people who determined the canon of Scripture, who decided what was to be regarded as Sacred Scripture and what was not.
As Flyersfan posted, those who are specifically mentioned as being Jesus “brothers” are also shown in Scripture to have different mothers and fathers.** It’s there in the Bible.**
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Tantum_ergo
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Actually, Eileen, I think that an unconsummated marriage can indeed be a valid marriage if the two parties involved have made a vow both to be virgins and are ‘capable’ of consummating the marriage.
IOW, while a man who is not physically capable of consummating the marriage is not capable of entering a valid marriage, a man who (with the consent of his wife to be) wishes to enter marriage and to live together as brother and sister, though he is capable of consummating the marriage, can indeed enter a valid marriage.
That is the reason that Mary and Joseph’s marriage was valid, though it remained unconsummated. Tradition has it that Mary was a consecrated virgin who (in order to protect her) needed to have a husband ‘in name only’ who agreed to act as such.
I believe the marriages are called “Josephite” marriages today.
And I believe what it falls under is that the couple, though capable of a good thing (sexual relations) freely chooses an even better thing (virginity in the service of God).
IOW, while a man who is not physically capable of consummating the marriage is not capable of entering a valid marriage, a man who (with the consent of his wife to be) wishes to enter marriage and to live together as brother and sister, though he is capable of consummating the marriage, can indeed enter a valid marriage.
That is the reason that Mary and Joseph’s marriage was valid, though it remained unconsummated. Tradition has it that Mary was a consecrated virgin who (in order to protect her) needed to have a husband ‘in name only’ who agreed to act as such.
I believe the marriages are called “Josephite” marriages today.
And I believe what it falls under is that the couple, though capable of a good thing (sexual relations) freely chooses an even better thing (virginity in the service of God).
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
Althoug I dont agree with you I am glad you cleared that up. I am also glad I read it before I posted to Eileen.
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flyersfan1088
Guest
Here’s a good page that goes into more detail on Mary’s perpetual virginity
catholic.com/library/Mary_Ever_Virgin.asp
catholic.com/library/Mary_Ever_Virgin.asp
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