Why do Roman Catholics not accept Sola Scriptura?

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OS…Don’t you believe as Christians we all have the right to interpret the Bible for ourselves as long as we feel guided by the Holy Spirit? Well, when I read Scripture, I feel guided by the Holy Spirit and my interpretation happens to be exactly that of the Catholic Church.

If you are saying my interpretation is wrong, then you are being hypocritical because that goes against your core belief of sola scriptura. Furthermore, since you stated you are not infallible, could you be wrong on 100% of every passage you have interpreted yourself?

Since you and I disagree on SO MUCH of Scripture, whom should we take are disagreement to be resolved?
You have been taught you cannot intrepret Scripture but Scripture says otherwise:

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

And read this:

John 14:26 *“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” *

And this:

John 16:13 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth…”

Why would you believe you can’t understand Scripture yourself? It’s because the church has taught you that you can’t…
 
OS…Don’t you believe as Christians we all have the right to interpret the Bible for ourselves as long as we feel guided by the Holy Spirit? Well, when I read Scripture, I feel guided by the Holy Spirit and my interpretation happens to be exactly that of the Catholic Church.

If you are saying my interpretation is wrong, then you are being hypocritical because that goes against your core belief of sola scriptura. Furthermore, since you stated you are not infallible, could you be wrong on 100% of every passage you have interpreted yourself?

Since you and I disagree on SO MUCH of Scripture, whom should we take are disagreement to be resolved?
You’re not being true to yourself. You can’t possibly believe the Scriptures teach Mary’s perpetual virginity or immaculate conception or assumption. To say you can believe that from Scripture is disingenuous.
 
CentralFLJames;3273720]It is up to you to point out where this tradition and teaching explicitly contradicts scripture. You will not be able to refute it since scripture is in perfect harmony with the traditions you mention. **I said that tradition does not contradict scripture. I did not say that scripture mirrors word for word everything held and elaborated in tradition. **
We have already given links and witness to the scriptures that relate to this tradition in other forums here. So I am not going to repeat what has already been laborously stated.
Know this. Scripture can not contradict tradition through an act of “silence” or through lack of elaboration and detail on a matter.
Arguments from silence carry no weight and that is why the tradition that Mary was assumed cannot be sustained. The Scriptrues are absolutely silent on it. Secondly to say that Mary did not sin is a contradiction with scripture that teaches all men are sinners by their relation to Adam. The only exception is the Lord Jesus.
The Catholic Church did not assemble and publish the bible with the intent that it was ever to be a self study aid sufficient and complete for every person’s salvation.
Do the Scriptures tell us how to be saved?
Do they teach how we are to mature in Christ and live the Christian life?
Just as sacraments must be conveyed through the authority of The Church so too must the faith be conveyed as if it was a sacrament itself through the authority of the Church. No one walks into a Catholic Church and proclaims himself Catholic. They must be indoctrinated, baptised, confirmed and work up to full communion with the Church.
You claim that “No one walks into a Catholic Church and proclaims himself Catholic”. If this is true, does that mean baptized babies are not catholics?
And once in communion with The Church a person must maintain themselves in a state of grace by frequent use of the sacraments, and through prayer and through further spiritual and educational maturity.
Is there anything in the Scriptures that a person must “maintain themselves in a state of grace by frequent use of the sacraments”?
 
That would be off topic in this thread, but there are many threads running on it. Just enter any of these terms in the “search” and you will find the Scriptural basis for these. The library is also a good source.
Just exactly the response I expected. It is not off topic. I started this thread and this pertains to my question perfectly. You won’t answer because you have no answer. Admit it…
 
Is God so small that his knowledge can be contained in a book?
Some of it can be. The Scriptures are God’s self revelations of Himself. They are not necessarily exhaustive but they are sufficent for Christians.
 
TO OLD SCHOLAR;

explain this one:

If this is true about infant baptism. then why would God command that Abraham would be circunsized when he was already an adult and thereafter every child born had to be circunsized. they could not choose they did not know anything about circunsition but yet commanded it to be done. that reminds me that it is exactly what you people believe: " we do no baptize infants for they must choose what they want believe later when they they are old enough."
Check a little more about the Jewish people. Any Jew not circumcised could not enter into the covenant with God.

And you don’t know what I believe about infant baptism.
 
I see I’m still being ignored.

What am I to conclude from the fact that Old Scholar won’t answer my questions?
Your answers are all in Scripture and you should be able to find them for yourself. I won’t do your research for you.
 
Originally Posted by justasking4
Thanks for the list. Would you agree that not all of these things were taught by the apostles?

Ignatius
Nope, with the exception of “the evangelical counsels”, (it’s eccumenical councils), they are all of Apostolic origin except those which are of Hebrew origin.

God Bless.
Where did the apostles teach
• prayers for the dead,
• veneration of the Saints,???
 
The NT focuses on Jesus not Mary.
We have proved that not everything was written down.
There is lots of histroy we know.
Just because it aint in the bible does not mean it is not true
Geroge Washington is not in the bible

ASSUMPTION OF MARY
John of Damascene, PG (96:1) (A.D. 747-751) noted how emperor Marcian and Pulcheria wanted the body of Mary. He informs that “Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven."

“the Virgin’s Assumption is something unique among men." - Gallican Sacramentary, from Munificentis simus Deus (8th Century).

Upon Mary’s death the Apostles returned to Jerusalem.
St. Thomas arrived on the thrid day.

St. Denys says that St. Timothy, and St. Hierotheus were present: noting also of his own hearing, that both before her death and after for three days, not only the Apostles and other holy men present, but the Angels also and Powers of heaven did sing most melodious Hymns. They buried her sacred body in Gethsemani; but for St. Thomas sake, who desired to see and to reverence it, they opened the sepulchre the THIRD day, and finding it void of the holy body, but exceedingly fragrant, they returned, assuredly deeming that her body was assumpted into heaven… St. Damascene, holy Athanasias also vouch the same. St. Bernard wrote five notable sermons extant in his works. (1582 Douay Rheims)

In the old testament Enoch and Elijah where assumed into Heaven (Gen. 5:24, Heb. 11:5 2 Kings 2:11-12; 1 Mac 2:58) would God not assumpt the mother of his beloved Son?

(Luke 1:37) “Because there shall not be impossible with God any word.”
IMMACULATE

Are you suggest that our Lord came out of the womb of a sinner?
Where in the bible does it say Mary sinned?
The Romans qoute was written to Rome not Nazareth
Mary was filled with grace by God (Luke 1:28) the Greek word used by Luke is found nowhere else in the scriptures.
Eve chose to sin Mary chose not to

PERPETUAL VIRGINITY
“To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David: and the virgins name was MARY.”
Isaiah 7:14 - “Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,…called Emmanuel.”

-Matthew (1:25) states that Joseph knew Mary “not till she brought forth her first born son: and called his name JESUS.”
-Some say this proves Mary was not a virgin yet other passages disprove this theory
-In Jewish culture at the time, a marriage was proceed by a betrothal where the bride belonged legally to her husband
-A bride did not live however with her husband for a year, when after which time the marriage is celebrated
-It was not uncommon for a woman to become pregnant during this time
-Luke (1:34) “And MARY said to the Angel, How shall this be done: because I know not man?”
-This shows Mary inquiring of the means of conception as she is a virgin
-Some have said (i.e. Protoevangelium of James c. 150 AD), that as a child (age 3?) Mary made a vow of virginity
-Being as such, this shows why Mary asked the question - as one would assume Mary knew that babies didn’t come from the Stork or Cabbage patch
-1 Chronicles (13:10) says “And the Lord was angry with Oza, and struck him, because he had touched the ark; and he died there before the Lord.” – Mary is the new ark, and a virgin
-Ezekiel 44:2 - “And the Lord said to me: This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall pass through it: because the Lord the God of Israel hath entered in by it, and it shall be shut”

BROTHERS?

-Mark (6:3) refers to Jesus as “the Son of Mary,” not “a” Son of Mary
-there was not a word for cousins who where regarded as brothers and sisters or simply brethren
-If Mary had other children, wouldn’t we know about them - yet no credible evidence exists
-When Jesus was on the cross he asked John to take care of Mary (John 19:26-27)
-If Jesus had brothers, wouldn’t they take care of Mary?
-The bible (Luke 2:25) says that Jesus is Mary’s “firstborn” son, neither declaring that Jesus was her only child, or that she had more children
-As there is no evidence to the contrary the Church believes in the perpetual virginity of Mary

-Some say James and Joseph are Jesus’ brothers yet the gospel of Matthew tells us otherwise
-Matthew (27:56) - Among whom was Mary Magdalen, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother or the sons of Zebedee.
-James and Joseph are his cousins with his Aunt begin Mary of Clopas
-This “other Mary” (Matthew 27:61 and 28:1) was by Jesus’ side with Mary Magdalen and his Mother when he was on the cross (John 19:25)
-John (20:17-18) shows Jesus referring to his disciples as brethren
-Paul (Titus 1:4) calls Titus his “beloved son” whom he was not biologically (or stepson, via a marriage)
-ACTS 1:14-15 - All these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women and MARY the mother of JESUS, and his brethren. In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said: (and the multitude of persons together, was almost an hundred and twenty.)
-120, that’s a lot of brothers don’t you think?

REUBKE?
-“Who is my mother and my brethren?” (John 3:33)
-As Jesus tells us his mother and brethren are those who hear the word and keep it
-Mary indeed did this
-Jesus is illustrating Mary’s blessedness
Luke (1:38) “be it done to me according to thy word.”
-While many were unfaithful, as Mary stood by his cross (19:25) she was ever faithful
-To say that Jesus is rebuking Mary in this passage is to say he is a sinner – breaching the 4th commandment (Deuteronomy 5:16)
-In John (2:4) “what have you to do with me?” says Jesus of his Mother who then intercedes for him saying to the minters “whatever he shall say to thee do ye” (John 2:5)
 
Who says they are sufficient?
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Are the Scripture sufficent and powerful enough to base doctrines on?
 
ARK OF THE NEW COVENANT

• Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant containing the word of God - Jesus is the new covenant
• Psalm 132:8 - “Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the ark of thy might”
• In Jeremiah (3:16) The ark of the old testament disappears but reappears in Revelation
• Revelation 11:19 and 12:2 - “Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. And a great portent [marvel] appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery”

• The ark of the covenant in the old testament carried the word of God (Exodus 25:16 and Deuteronomy 10)
• In Jeremiah the ark disappears with God saying (31:31) “I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda:”
• In the new testament the word is made flesh (John 1:14)
• Mary gives birth to Jesus in Bethlehem, a town of Juda
• Micah 5:2 says “AND THOU, BETHLEHEM Ephrata, art a little one among the thousands of Juda: out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel: and his going forth is from the beginning, from the days of eternity.”
• Peter (1:23) says “Born again not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible by the word of God who liveth and remaineth for ever.”

• In 2 Chronicles (6:11) the covenant is “put in the ark”
• Deuteronomy (chapter 10) notes the ark carried the word of God.
• In Luke (Chapter 1) Mary becomes pregnant with Jesus via the gift of the Holy Spirit
• Mary carried the word of God - Luke (2:38) says “And she at the same hour suddenly coming in, confessed to our Lord: and spake of him to all that expected the redemption of Israel.”
• In Luke (1:72,76-77) Zachary, father of John the Baptist prophesise of “The oath which he sware to Abraham our father, that he would give to us,” …And thou child, shalt be called the Prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of our Lord to prepare his ways. To give knowledge of salvation to his people, unto remission of their sins,”
• In Luke, (22:20) Jesus says “THIS IS THE CHALICE THE NEW TESTAMENT [covenant] IN MY BLOOD, WHICH SHALL BE SHED FOR YOU." – forgiveness of sins / eternal life with God

• In 2 Samuel (6:9) David was afraid saying to God “How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?”
• In Luke (1:43) Elisabeth says “And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”

• In Joshua (6:4) Seven trumpets are sounded by the priests as they “go before the ark of the covenant” in a jubilee
• In Revelation there are seven angels with seven trumpets sounding victory over evil. Chapter 10:7 says “But in the days of the voice of the seventh Angel, when the trumpet shall begin to sound, the mysteries of God shall be consummate, as he hath evangelised by his servants the Prophets.”
 
Your answers are all in Scripture and you should be able to find them for yourself. I won’t do your research for you.
No, they’re not. That’s why I issued you a challenge.

You say they are. Prove it.

Since you claim they’re there, you must have some idea where you think they are. It is not unreasonable for me to ask you to back up your claim.
 
**Then I’ll ask you a simple question. Give me the Scriptures that show Mary remained a virgin and that she was “assumed” into heaven. That should be an easy one. **
Well it starts here. This is the start of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church that has Pope Benedict XVI holding the chair of Peter.

Matthew Chapter 19
“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”
And a question for you….Where in scripture does it say Mary was not a virgin? Where is it stated in scripture she was not assumed into heaven? 🤷
 
Paul VI spoke about Mary - “For the Right Ordering and Development of Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary,” promulgated in 1974, he in particular noted some of the many virtues of the Mother of God. He said Mary’s exemplary holiness encourages believers to "raise their eyes to Mary who shines forth before the whole community of the elect as a model of the virtues” He says it is a question of rock-solid, evangelical virtues e.g.

• **faith **And blessed is she that believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoke to her by our Lord. And MARY said, MY SOUL doth magnify our Lord And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
• **the docile acceptance of the Word of God **And blessed is she that believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoke to her by our Lord.
• **generous obedience **And MARY said, BEHOLD the handmaid of our Lord, be it done to me according to thy word.
• **genuine humility **Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
solicitous (kind/attentive/considerate) charity (kindness/compassion/goodwill) And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord doth come to me?
• **profound wisdom **And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth: and was subject to them. And his mother kept all these words in her heart And JESUS proceeded in wisdom and age, and grace with God and men.
worship of God manifested in alacrity (keenness/enthusiasm/promptness/speed) in the fulfilment of religious duties And his parents went every year unto Jerusalem at the solemn day of Pasche.
• **in gratitude for gifts received **Because he that is mighty hath done great things for me, and holy is his name
• **in her offering in the Temple **And after the days were fully ended of her purification according to the law of Moses, they carried him into Jerusalem, to present him to our Lord (as it is written in the law of our Lord, That every male opening the matrice, shall be called holy to the LordAnd to give a sacrifice *according as it is written in the law of our Lord, a pair of turtles, or two young pigeons.
• **in her prayer in the midst of the apostolic community **All these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women and MARY the mother of JESUS, and his brethren.
• **her fortitude in exile **13. For it will come to pass that Herod will seek the child to destroy him.
• **her fortitude in suffering **And thine own soul shall have a sword pierce, that out of many hearts cogitations may be revealed. // And there stood beside the cross of JESUS, his mother, and his mothers sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
her poverty reflecting dignity and trust in God Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid:
• **her attentive care for her Son, from His humble birth to the ignominy of the cross ** And she brought forth her first begotten son, swaddled him in clothes, and laid him down in a manger: because there was no place for them in the inn.
her delicate forethought And JESUS saith to her, What is to me and thee woman? my hour cometh not yet. His mother saith to the ministers, Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.

CONTINUED
 
wanner47

I haven’t said my interpretations are infallible, nor do I expect yours to be. The Scriptures are infallible and they can be easily interpreted.

I agree about Jesus Christ’s Church but I don’t believe the RCC follows Christ’s teachings anymore. At first they did.

I’m sure there are many Baptists who can intrepret Scripture properly. Christ certainly said we could and I have no doubt many people can. In many cases, however, they have not yet been shown the complete truth and take just one verse and don’t research it fully enough to know what it says. One’s hermenuetics must be exhaustive or it will fail.

Sorry but I read the quote you listed as from the Southern Baptists but I didn’t see anything about OSAS. Are you reading something into it that isn’t there?

Regarding divorce, I believe the Catholic Church is correct in that a divorce doesn’t dissolve a marriage. Unfortunately the legal part of it can be dissolved but that is not Scriptural. Neither is the Catholic habit of annuling long term marriages proper. A marriage that has been consumated should not be anulled.

Nobody said the ELCA was right either.

Regarding infant baptism, the Scriptures do give us the answer. They say that a person has to “believe” before baptism.

Scripture is sufficient for exactly what it says it is:

2 Tim 3:16 * “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”*

If you expect the Bible to tell you to buy a Chevrolet instead of a Ford, forget it…
 
her virginal purity fear not to take MARY thy wife, for that which is borne in her, is of the Holy Ghost.
her strong and chaste married love To be enrolled with MARY his espoused wife that was with child.

Pope Paul VI goes on to say “These virtues of the Mother will also adorn her children who steadfastly study her example in order to reflect it in their own lives. And this progress in virtue will appear as the consequence and the already mature fruit of that pastoral zeal which springs from devotion to the Blessed Virgin.”

He adds “Devotion to the Mother of the Lord becomes for the faithful an opportunity for growing in divine grace, and this is the ultimate aim of all pastoral activity. For it is impossible to honour her who is “full of grace” (Lk. 1:28) without thereby honouring in oneself the state of grace, which is friendship with God, communion with Him and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is this divine grace which takes possession of the whole man and conforms him to the image of the Son of God (cf. Rom. 8:29; Col. 1:18). The Catholic Church, endowed with centuries of experience, recognizes in devotion to the Blessed Virgin a powerful aid for man as he strives for fulfilment. Mary, the New Woman, stands at the side of Christ, the New Man, within whose mystery man[124] alone finds true light; she is given to us as a pledge and guarantee

that God’s plan in Christ for the salvation of the whole man has already achieved realization in a creature: in her. Contemplated in the episodes of the Gospels and in the reality which she already possesses in the City of God, the Blessed Virgin Mary offers a calm vision and a reassuring word to modern man, torn as he often is between anguish and hope, defeated by the sense of his own limitations and assailed by limitless aspirations, troubled in his mind and divided in his heart, uncertain before the riddle of death, oppressed by loneliness while yearning for fellowship, a prey to boredom and disgust. She shows forth the victory of hope over anguish, of fellowship over solitude, of peace over anxiety, of joy and beauty over boredom and disgust, of eternal visions over earthly ones, of life over death.”
 
Stephen_C;3284360]Well it starts here. This is the start of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church that has Pope Benedict XVI holding the chair of Peter.
Where in Scripture is there any specific reference to the “chair of Peter”?
Matthew Chapter 19
“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”
Where in Scripture is there any specific reference to the “chair of Peter”?
And a question for you….Where in scripture does it say Mary was not a virgin?
She had other children. See Matthew 13:55-56 for one of many examples of them.
Where is it stated in scripture she was not assumed into heaven? 🤷
There is absolutely no mention of it. If i’m not mistaken the first mention of it is in 377.

I can see why catholics cannot accept or believe in sola scriptura since it would mean so many doctrines and traditions would have to be rejected.
 
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