Why do so many Catholics accept evolution as fact?

[Wampa]

Joe, you continue to be the greatest time-saver of my life. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read a thread, formulated my position offline after thinking about it a bit, then returned to the thread to type - only to find that you’ve already said what I was going to say (and usually far more eloquently, too!). You continue to be the man!

I will just add that I could spend countless hours reading both sides of this debate, when in the end the truth of exactly how it works has no impact on my salvation. Given the number of more meaningful things I still need to learn about, this one doesn’t seem like a good use of my time.

 

[Vonsalza]

Greetings!

Probably because most Catholics are comfortable with the questions “Why am I here?” and “How am I here?” being answered by different sources.

The first few chapters in Genesis were orally told for centuries (if not far longer) and then written down when writing came along - all well before the birth of scientific reasoning. To look at them with a scientific lens is the height of anachronism. Those critically important stories convey meaning, not necessarily fact. In that way, they are irrefutably true.

Thus the derived genealogies between Christ and Adam are one way we connect this meaning to our savior; which connects it to us. Whether the lists are perfectly factual is unknowable and ultimately irrelevant. They are meaningful to who we are.

Meaning is just as important to a human as fact - nihilism’s greatest lesson. And you don’t always have to get them both from the same “place”.

 

[DaveBj]

snip

With such a myriad of resources at hand, why do so many Catholics try to make evolution fit with the Catholic faith when there really is no need to?

Also, are there any Catholic creationists (either young earth or old earth) on this board?

I’ll answer the second question first – yes, there are, but I am not one.

I can’t speak for “many Catholics,” but I will explain why I believe that there has to be some form of evolution:

1. Premise: When God created, everything that He created was very good (see Gen. 1:31).
2. Assumption: Satan cannot create anything in the same way that God created.

but

1. Fact: There are now in the world organisms that are not even slightly good; rather, there are downright nasty. (If anyone doesn’t believe this, I would recommend viewing a few episodes of the Animal Planet series Monsters Inside Me.

Conclusion: If everything that God made was very good; if there are now evil organisms in the world (taking “evil” in this case to mean harmful to human life); and, if those evil organisms could not have been created by Satan, then the only logical conclusion is that today’s evil organisms must have evolved from something that was originally “very good”.

 

[cfauster]

There are now in the world organisms that are not even slightly good; rather, there are downright nasty … if there are now evil organisms in the world (taking “evil” in this case to mean harmful to human life), and, if those evil organisms could not have been created by Satan, then the only logical conclusion is that today’s evil organisms must have evolved from something that was originally “very good”.

I just would not want to be overconfident that all organisms harmful (or potentially harmful) to humans are evil rather than good in God’s eyes.

The Book of Job serves as a good reminder that only God knows why some things exist, happen, etc. See, for example,
thoughtfulcatholic.com/?p=44030

 

[angell1]

It is a fact – as far as any scientific theory can be considered a fact.

How far can a scientific theory be considered a fact? It depends.

On one hand you have the Theory of Gravity. On the other, String Theory.

exactly, in the scientific world, theories are not exactly “facts” per see. they are constantly being revised and retested.

the theory of evolution itself has certainly evolved from when it was first proposed, yes, pun intended

 

[TMC]

From reading posts on here and also from listening to Catholic Answers, it seems like a lot of Catholics simply accept that evolution is a fact and then try to make it fit with the Catholic faith. As someone coming to Catholicism from the Reformed perspective who is also a creationist, this troubles me.

Why do Catholics not seem to have encountered the myriad of books, articles and videos that show the major weaknesses of the evolution theory? Sites like Answers In Genesis, Creation Ministries International and the Institute for Creation Research show that there are serious problems with evolutionary theory. There are books written by PhD scientists (including one from my alma mater, Victoria University of Wellington) that blow holes in evolution.

With such a myriad of resources at hand, why do so many Catholics try to make evolution fit with the Catholic faith when there really is no need to?

Also, are there any Catholic creationists (either young earth or old earth) on this board?

Catholics have encountered the “myriad” of fundamentalist works on creation, but Catholics are not fundamentalists. Catholics don’t need to “try to make it [evolution] fit” with Catholicism - it fits perfectly well and the last several Popes have all accepted evolution.

You will find a few YEC/OEC Catholics here, just as you can find a lively thread on flat earth theory going on right now, and we have the occasional geocentrism thread. But most Catholics accept that the science of evolution is not contrary to the faith.

 

[MT1926]

Evolution. Not because of the topic itself, but because when discussion on evolution took place it frequently turned nasty. There isn’t a large enough mod staff to moderate those discussions.

Thanks. Didn’t realize it is such a heated topic.

I kind of agree with Deacon Jeff

 

[Della]

Thanks. Didn’t realize it is such a heated topic.

It had been, which is why it was banned, but bans can be lifted. If we all abide by forum rules most topics shouldn’t be a problem, yes?

I kind of agree with Deacon Jeff

I kind of do too, in that our salvation isn’t dependent on the latest scientific theories. Sadly, though many people have bought the idea that we came from nothing from random happenings with no meaning–which is what they think evolution is all about. Of course, most of these people know nothing about actual scientific theories. The idea that we are *merely *“stardust” has destroyed the faith of millions.

 

[DaveBj]

I just would not want to be overconfident that all organisms harmful (or potentially harmful) to humans are evil rather than good in God’s eyes.

The Book of Job serves as a good reminder that only God knows why some things exist, happen, etc. See, for example,
thoughtfulcatholic.com/?p=44030

They’re not just harmful to humans; they’re harmful to any animal that they invade. You will have a lot of work to do if you plan on convincing me that these organisms come anywhere near “very good”.

 

[Dorothy]

From reading posts on here and also from listening to Catholic Answers, it seems like a lot of Catholics simply accept that evolution is a fact and then try to make it fit with the Catholic faith. As someone coming to Catholicism from the Reformed perspective who is also a creationist, this troubles me.

Why do Catholics not seem to have encountered the myriad of books, articles and videos that show the major weaknesses of the evolution theory? Sites like Answers In Genesis, Creation Ministries International and the Institute for Creation Research show that there are serious problems with evolutionary theory. There are books written by PhD scientists (including one from my alma mater, Victoria University of Wellington) that blow holes in evolution.

With such a myriad of resources at hand, why do so many Catholics try to make evolution fit with the Catholic faith when there really is no need to?

Also, are there any Catholic creationists (either young earth or old earth) on this board?

It is my understanding that it is okay to believe either way. An explanation can be found in the Encyclical “Humani Generis” which touches on how what science finds in no way can erase the authentic teaching of the Church.

The bottom line is that we had two parents, and due to disobedience we have fallen natures. Thanks be to God we have the Remedy.

w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html

Look up #36 and what follows after that to better understand.

 

[Wesrock]

To speak regarding how Catholics who believe in evolution should interpret the account of the creation and fall of man, we must believe that it’s more than a moral story. Even if we believe in evolution, we must still hold that it is a real, historical event being described. It is just told in a mythological style. Believing in evolution also does not mean we as Catholics should believe in an inactive, uncaring God who just watches random events unfold from afar. The universe was created according to His will, and the natural laws exist by His will, and He created (and creates) knowing that things would turn out this way. It doesn’t turn mankind into an accident in the eyes of God.

 

[po18guy]

First, Catholicism categorically rejects Darwinian evolution. Yet, the time periods expressed in Genesis are quite vague and could clearly involve billions of years. Look up Dr. David Anders at EWTN. He has a radio show entitled “Call to Communion.” He came from Reformed/Calvinism and can provide you with a thorough and satisfactory explanation.

 

[LiamQ]

Fact is, not all Catholics do accept evolution as fact, I certainly don’t…

kolbecenter.org/

It’s absolutely OK to not accept evolution on scientific grounds. For my own part, I am a skeptic who keeps in mind his knowledge of science is limited to a smattering of anatomy and physiology.

What’s not OK is do as the Kolbe Center does, which is to dictate to faithful Catholics that the Church absolutely teaches that young-earth Creationism is true, and that those in the Magisterium who would say otherwise are mistaken.

But that’s not about science or evolution, is about setting one’s self up as an alternative Magisterium. That’s not right.

 

[exnihilo]

Most people accept most things as fact on authority. The same is true with evolution. The scientific consensus is for evolution. Personally I see lots of problems with the standard account of evolution. I don’t have a strong opinion other then I’m some sort of creationist and think lower life forms don’t evolve into complex life forms.

I think the many Catholics who believe in evolution do so because, like for every else, this is the consensus. As has been pointed out many apologists, wanting to dispel the notion the Church is anti-science, make clear you can believe in some form of evolution. I think the stigma of the common narrative about the Catholic Church being against science in the Galileo controversy may particularly motivate some people to not want to buck the scientific consensus.

At the end of the day while I have my opinions I don’t think this is a big issue. That is, what opinion you happen to have on how exactly we got the life forms we have now isnt the most important thing. From a Christian point of view believing God created and sustains the universe is important while the details less so.

 

[Techno2000]

They’re not just harmful to humans; they’re harmful to any animal that they invade. You will have a lot of work to do if you plan on convincing me that these organisms come anywhere near “very good”.

Maybe God did it to teach man about good and evil, we know the Devil is bad because he’s associated with a poisonous snake.

 

[Della]

They’re not just harmful to humans; they’re harmful to any animal that they invade. You will have a lot of work to do if you plan on convincing me that these organisms come anywhere near “very good”.

Considering they are part of God’s creation they are good. Very good was reserved for humankind in the creation story.

I believe it was St. Augustine who taught that all the organisms that are harmful to us weren’t meant to be so, but only to the lower life forms. Only after the fall did we become vulnerable to diseases, parasites, insects, etc. They serve a purpose in the natural world, such as population control of species, adaptations of species, ridding the environment of carcasses, etc. So, they are good, but not necessarily good for us humans. After all, there are good bacteria and bugs that inhabit our bodies, too. They must be there for a reason and since God created everything we have to accept that the reason is a good one.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

NO. :nope: It matters tremendously- at least in matters of faith, that is, if one is so devoted to it. Its the very foundation of The Christian faith it threatens, as it undermines it all.

The wages of sin is death, Says The Lord. This is what His Holy Word says. (Romans 5:12, Romans 6:23, Genesis 2:17) You cannot have death existing before the fall of man. Evolution completely undermines the entire Word of God, as death is what came about because of sin- the first sin. If death was before sin, then there is no need for a savior. Then there is no need for repentance, as the punishment for sin was death. Furthermore, it makes God look like he made and approved death- Holy Scripture says that He did not create it. → ( Wisdom 1:12 13 God did not invent death, and when living creatures die, it gives him no pleasure. 14 He created everything so that it might continue to exist, and everything he created is wholesome and good.)

If death existed before the fall, then it makes all of Scripture null and void if it is true and evolution teaches this. It makes Holy Scripture a cute story about lots of stuff people foolishly believed and went through, it makes it not a factual book about God and the truth, the faith, and therefore it doesn’t matter how you interpret it, because then Holy Scripture would have no basis for giving us the TRUTH. It would become wishy-washy goo-goo nicey-nice hoo-hah that just there to give people warm fuzzy feelings and ideas about life or a nice story to listen to when they are upset. Truth is undermined. Truth is changed. “What is truth?” - Pontius Pilate says just before he washes his hands of ‘the problem of this guy named’ Jesus of Nazareth.

There is no proof of evolution. Its a theory. Theories are not rocks to build houses on. Theories can crumble because they haven’t been around enough to prove them right, to test them. This one has only been around for about a little less then 200 years. I will say this, I believe it is ok for the church to explore what has been found on the matter. When something contradicts the faith and seems true, it is a good thing to bring it to The Lord in serious investigation. But to go against God’s Word would not be wise.

Evolution is not compatible with God’s Word, which is one of the three feet the magisterium sits on- Tradition, Holy Scripture and the ex-cathedra teachings of the popes through the ages. Mess with one of these tripod ‘feet’ and the people are not safe from spiritual error.

Choosing to believe in evolution is a modern man desire to rewrite Genesis. Its easier for people to believe that all of creation came into existence due to non spiritual natural events rather than the finger of God willing it so, creating it, making it come into existence. As Catholics, we believe that The Blessed Virgin became pregnant with The Christ child through the power of The Holy Spirit- or should we start touting that the easier more natural explanation makes more sense? Go against what Holy Scripture says because it makes better sense? See how easy that is to do?

It does matter. It matters completely if you are one to believe in God’s Word, which gives us all the basis for our spiritual beliefs and what you believe spiritually will effect how you behave, what choices you make, what you say is ok or not, what things you will accept or condemn. Heaven and Earth may pass away, but God’s Word will not. - paraphrased Luke 21:33.

 

[doomguy93]

I really don’t accept it man. I agree with Ken Ham and the others who say that it automatically voids Jesus and His sacrifice. If death and suffering was in the world before the fall of man and God took billions and billions of years to do things, then Jesus’s sacrifice doesn’t mean anything because it didn’t happen. You can just throw the Bible, Rosary, and all your other religious stuff in the trash, because our faith doesn’t mean a thing if evolution is true. Likewise, I reject Darwinistic thought which includes “overpopulation/population control” (which is nihilist), “survival of the fittest” (nihilist), “game theory” for relationships (super nihilist) etc.

I would probably call myself a young Earth creationist. I believe that the science is just flat-out wrong and that everyone is in for a shock when we die and God shows us that everything in the Bible happened exactly as it was written. We weren’t there at the beginning, and neither was Moses who largely wrote Genesis. He was interested in recording the facts, not the why, the how, or the when. This is true of the entire Bible. So you can’t say “IT COULDN’T HAVE HAPPENED THAT WAY” because this world is very different from the beginning of creation.

Remember that man’s wisdom is complete stupidity in the eyes of the Lord. But man has replaced God with science, and if you DARE deny the holy name and works of Science, you are a heretic theist who must be strongly corrected and probably outcast and executed in the future. I think the only reason the Church has no strong stance on evolution is because we care very much about our image. We want to call non-believers to the faith, not repel them.

 

[LiamQ]

If death existed before the fall, then it makes all of Scripture null and void if it is true and evolution teaches this.

It’s perfectly reasonable to accept that Adam’s body was formed “out of the dust of the earth” insofar as it was the result of a type of evolution, AND to believe that he was immortal upon having a rational soul infused into him.

Frankly, I honestly don’t know what the fuss is about on that front.

 

[LiamQ]

If death and suffering was in the world before the fall of man and God took billions and billions of years to do things, then Jesus’s sacrifice doesn’t mean anything because it didn’t happen.

Sorry, mate: this is a non sequitur.

It’s like saying that, since I ate cinnamon Cheerios this morning, then I couldn’t possibly be typing on a computer right now.