Why do so many Catholics act so superior?

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😦 I read his post a few times. I just don’t see your POV. I didn’t see a lack of charity…
It may not lack charity to you, but I saw different and many people on CAF looking for answers could be chased away from the church if we are not more careful.

The rolling eyes icon was definitely meant to be sarcastic, no?
 
It may not lack charity to you, but I saw different and many people on CAF looking for answers could be chased away from the church if we are not more careful.

The rolling eyes icon was definitely meant to be sarcastic, no?
Sarcasm might be an attempt at humor…instead of uncharity.

We don’t want to chase anyone from the Church, obvously…but we have to present the Church the way it is.

Take Father Corapi…my DH used to watch him, before I came back to the Church. I used to think, “Wow this priest is all fire and brimstone…” and ask my DH to change the channel ( he didn’t :))

Then I started watching… I used to be nominally Catholic, and didn’t go to Mass or confession. I was in a perpetual state of mortal sin. It started when I was 14 when I would miss Mass. From 14 until 34 I think I went to confession maybe 5 or 6 times…in 20 years. I convinced myself that there were no mortal sins, God loved us and everybody went to heaven.

Watching Father Corapi was uncomfortable for me. But then I realized, “if I die tomorrow, will Jesus be ok with me never going to Church, among other sins…?.” So I went.

And I am forever grateful, that Father Corapi wasn’t all sweetness and light.

Hope that makes sense.
 
“gosh, if we’re not nice, inclusive, and tolerant of everyone all the time, they might leave the Church, have a bad opinion of us and possibly go to that bad place when they die all because of us…can’t we all just be liberals and give each other a hug and accept others for who they are”

This entire thread is a logical fallacy:* Inappropriate Appeal to Emotion*
 
“gosh, if we’re not nice, inclusive, and tolerant of everyone all the time, they might leave the Church, have a bad opinion of us and possibly go to that bad place when they die all because of us…can’t we all just be liberals and give each other a hug and accept others for who they are”

This entire thread is a logical fallacy:* Inappropriate Appeal to Emotion*
Then YOU and others will continue to push people away from CAF if the attitude continues.

This is all I’m trying to say.

Sweeten the truth and then relay it with love. Get it? 🤷
 
I read Zach’s post carefully and in doing, my own personal impression was that the ‘rolling eyes’ was related specifically to the ‘funny’ title he came up with and was saying specifically was not to be understood as the titles on the proposed threads.

As though I had posted a long ‘solemn’ post (but nice of course)

And then ended with, “it’s not as though most people who discuss the subject above are picky perfectionists and other sillies :rolleyes:”… . .

So certainly I’m not being sarcastic for the whole thing.

I’m just wondering if a certain sensitivity to a topic can make us read into posts things which aren’t really there, or to exaggerate any possibility that it ‘could’ be read in a ‘hurtful’ way. I know that I myself can be prone, after reading several posts in a row say that I find disrespectful to the Virgin Mary, to read a ‘milder’ kind of post and yet to ‘find in it’ a TONE which quite honestly it may not have had at all, but I am ‘hypersensitive’ to.

Just something to consider.

Because while we need to speak in love, sometimes people don’t ‘hear’ love. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t spoken; doesn’t even mean the person who didn’t hear it didn’t TRY (often he certainly has tried, and tried hard!), but we’re all just human. If I have a tremendous emotional ‘response’ (often quite understandably) to something, anything short of what <> perceive as ‘love’ is going to be seen as mean and nasty, even if it is nothing of the kind.
 
Very well said:thumbsup: Only Christ knows each heart, and that must be why there seemed to not be a “one size fits all” formula when he healed people, etc…
I wouldn’t be so quick to slap another poster on the back and exactly for the reason you gave. Only the Holy Trinity knows each heart. It works both ways. Something to contemplate (for us all). Pax†
 
I kind of see what you mean.
I feel a little odd here, like I don’t always fit in, especially in minor debate topics.
I always feel better when I look at the prayer section.
I notice the people replying in those threads are always very humble.

One could argue that the ‘superior’ attitude is more of a ‘stand up for truth’ kind of thing.
I notice that usually the people I feel a little odd about have good arguments for what they say for the most part.
 
I kind of see what you mean.
I feel a little odd here, like I don’t always fit in, especially in minor debate topics.
I always feel better when I look at the prayer section.
I notice the people replying in those threads are always very humble.

One could argue that the ‘superior’ attitude is more of a ‘stand up for truth’ kind of thing.
I notice that usually the people I feel a little odd about have good arguments for what they say for the most part.
Good post. Believe it or not I feel the same way. Maybe that’s why I post links a lot (the authors have better/well written arguements). I feel much more at home in the prayer sections for the same reason.

I also tend to get a little angry when I read the back and forth arguements on CAF. :o Not healthy. I become what I loath.
 
Good post. Believe it or not I feel the same way. Maybe that’s why I post links a lot (the authors have better/well written arguements). I feel much more at home in the prayer sections for the same reason.

I also tend to get a little angry when I read the back and forth arguements on CAF. :o Not healthy. I become what I loath.
me too :o
 
Then YOU and others will continue to push people away from CAF if the attitude continues.

This is all I’m trying to say.

Sweeten the truth and then relay it with love. Get it? 🤷
You defend your logical fallacy with an *ad hominem *logical fallacy? This is my lucky day.
 
Then YOU and others will continue to push people away from CAF if the attitude continues.

This is all I’m trying to say.

Sweeten the truth and then relay it with love. Get it? 🤷
What if some people are offended by being told they are wrong no matter how much it is sweetened? Are we supposed to nod with them in agreement (which in and of itself could be sinful) just to keep the peace?
 
Paul didn’t sweeten a whole lot in his words. Neither did Christ when he told some people their father is the lord of all lies and called them hypocrites. It’s a moot point anyway. The soft, non-judgmental approach has been tried for the last 5 decades and dominates today. It has failed. Just look at the number and actions of the “faithful”.

Following Christ is not about seeing the softer side of Sears. Mercy for the sinner; no mercy for the sin and those who campaign to lead others to sin.
 
“gosh, if we’re not nice, inclusive, and tolerant of everyone all the time, they might leave the Church, have a bad opinion of us and possibly go to that bad place when they die all because of us…can’t we all just be liberals and give each other a hug and accept others for who they are”

This entire thread is a logical fallacy:* Inappropriate Appeal to Emotion*
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
1 Cor. 13:1-7

We can word things strongly without being unkind, impatient, rude or self-inflated.

This is not a matter of being “nice” or trying to “sweeten the truth” or make the truth more attractive than it is. The truth is sweet to the wise, and bitter to the foolish, and there is no getting around that.

It is a matter of expressing things with a certain amount of humility…not because humility is attractive, but because humility is a more accurate reflection of what our place is in the grand scheme of knowledge and grace.

*Consider your own calling, brothers. Not many of you were wise by human standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. Rather, God chose the foolish of the world to shame the wise, and God chose the weak of the world to shame the strong, and God chose the lowly and despised of the world, those who count for nothing, to reduce to nothing those who are something, so that no human being might boast before God. It is due to him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, as well as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Whoever boasts, should boast in the Lord.” *1 Cor. 1:26-31

A Catholic who has the attitude that they are made of different stuff than other men may mean well, but is missing the point, all the same. It is a wrong attitude, I’m sure you’d agree with that. That attitude is what the thread is about, I think. It is not that we shouldn’t be trying to do good things. It is that we shouldn’t think we are less in need of mercy if we do. It is because of mercy that we succeed in anything worth doing. We can’t ever forget that, nor talk as if we have.

Speaking of Jesus’ willingness to speak hard truths, try this little Bible search: Did Jesus use his harsh words on people who were failing miserably, the prostitutes and the tax collectors, on the people who were too tolerant of the sins of others, or were those harsh words used on people who were serving God by a combination of doing everything right and unfailingly condemning those who weren’t?

Just asking.
 
Hear me out for a second. There have been so many threads on CAF started purely to minimize or point out bad behaviour of other people. I know that sometimes, people like to vent, but I can’t help, but think that a lot of well meaning Catholics tend to come across as being very superior.

Examples of topics where I see this all the time:

NFP vs. ABC threads
Modesty threads
Masterbation threads
Bringing children to mass threads
Marital problems threads (telling them to split up all the time)

Honestly, if I were not Catholic and I came on CAF, it would really put me off the idea of ever being Catholic. There’s no love coming from many posters on CAF.

How are we supposed to bring families and friends to the Catholic church if we are always condemning and frowning upon others telling them they are in mortal sin and giving this “holier than thou” attitude.

I really dislike it and it’s so unattractive. We as Catholics are supposed to be spreading love, compassion, empathy and grace. What happened?
Plenty of Catholics do a great job here, and perhaps it would be better to focus on the ones that are. Even if they don’t typically post or find interest in posting in the categories you listed.
 
It may not lack charity to you, but I saw different and many people on CAF looking for answers could be chased away from the church if we are not more careful.

The rolling eyes icon was definitely meant to be sarcastic, no?
I don’t think there was anything uncharitable about his post. I read it several times. I’ve personally never liked the eye-rolly smiley, but come on…that’s not gonna push anyone away from the Church.

What I believe is that we have to present things the way they are. Some people are super-sensitive and some people just don’t want to hear the truth no matter how much we sweeten it up. I agree with Fr. Corapi and those who’ve brought him up in this thread so far. We need *more *fire and brimstone talk in our churches if anything, not less. It’s never, ever charitable to confirm someone in their sin.

Think about it…if someone comes to you and says that they are masturbating with impunity or using ABC or cheating on their wife, etc…how exactly would you propose we speak to such a person, Serap? What do we say? Whatever the response, kindness and grace is a given, I think.

Christ told us to admonish the sinner and to instruct the ignorant, and that these are works of mercy; of love. He didn’t say to “sweeten” the truth to make it easier to swallow. 😦
 
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
1 Cor. 13:1-7

We can word things strongly without being unkind, impatient, rude or self-inflated.

This is not a matter of being “nice” or trying to “sweeten the truth” or make the truth more attractive than it is. The truth is sweet to the wise, and bitter to the foolish, and there is no getting around that.

It is a matter of expressing things with a certain amount of humility…not because humility is attractive, but because humility is a more accurate reflection of what our place is in the grand scheme of knowledge and grace.

Consider your own calling, brothers. Not many of you were wise by human standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. Rather, God chose the foolish of the world to shame the wise, and God chose the weak of the world to shame the strong, and God chose the lowly and despised of the world, those who count for nothing, to reduce to nothing those who are something, so that no human being might boast before God. It is due to him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, as well as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Whoever boasts, should boast in the Lord.” 1 Cor. 1:26-31

A Catholic who has the attitude that they are made of different stuff than other men may mean well, but is missing the point, all the same. It is a wrong attitude, I’m sure you’d agree with that. That attitude is what the thread is about, I think. It is not that we shouldn’t be trying to do good things. It is that we shouldn’t think we are less in need of mercy if we do. It is because of mercy that we succeed in anything worth doing. We can’t ever forget that, nor talk as if we have.

Speaking of Jesus’ willingness to speak hard truths, try this little Bible search: Did Jesus use his harsh words on people who were failing miserably, the prostitutes and the tax collectors, on the people who were too tolerant of the sins of others, or were those harsh words used on people who were serving God by a combination of doing everything right and unfailingly condemning those who weren’t?

Just asking.
Thank you for this post. This is exactly what I meant in my post.

Thanks so much for trying to help me out. I often have a hard time expressing what I am thinking.
 
I don’t think there was anything uncharitable about his post. I read it several times. I’ve personally never liked the eye-rolly smiley, but come on…that’s not gonna push anyone away from the Church.

What I believe is that we have to present things the way they are. Some people are super-sensitive and some people just don’t want to hear the truth no matter how much we sweeten it up. I agree with Fr. Corapi and those who’ve brought him up in this thread so far. We need *more *fire and brimstone talk in our churches if anything, not less. It’s never, ever charitable to confirm someone in their sin.

Think about it…if someone comes to you and says that they are masturbating with impunity or using ABC or cheating on their wife, etc…how exactly would you propose we speak to such a person, Serap? What do we say? Whatever the response, kindness and grace is a given, I think.

Christ told us to admonish the sinner and to instruct the ignorant, and that these are works of mercy; of love. He didn’t say to “sweeten” the truth to make it easier to swallow. 😦
AC Claire, please re-read EasterJoy’s post. She put it so well…this is what this thread is all about…

If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 1 Cor. 13:1-7

We can word things strongly without being unkind, impatient, rude or self-inflated.

This is not a matter of being “nice” or trying to “sweeten the truth” or make the truth more attractive than it is. The truth is sweet to the wise, and bitter to the foolish, and there is no getting around that.

It is a matter of expressing things with a certain amount of humility…not because humility is attractive, but because humility is a more accurate reflection of what our place is in the grand scheme of knowledge and grace.

Consider your own calling, brothers. Not many of you were wise by human standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. Rather, God chose the foolish of the world to shame the wise, and God chose the weak of the world to shame the strong, and God chose the lowly and despised of the world, those who count for nothing, to reduce to nothing those who are something, so that no human being might boast before God. It is due to him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, as well as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Whoever boasts, should boast in the Lord.” 1 Cor. 1:26-31

A Catholic who has the attitude that they are made of different stuff than other men may mean well, but is missing the point, all the same. It is a wrong attitude, I’m sure you’d agree with that. That attitude is what the thread is about, I think. It is not that we shouldn’t be trying to do good things. It is that we shouldn’t think we are less in need of mercy if we do. It is because of mercy that we succeed in anything worth doing. We can’t ever forget that, nor talk as if we have.

Speaking of Jesus’ willingness to speak hard truths, try this little Bible search: Did Jesus use his harsh words on people who were failing miserably, the prostitutes and the tax collectors, on the people who were too tolerant of the sins of others, or were those harsh words used on people who were serving God by a combination of doing everything right and unfailingly condemning those who weren’t?

Just asking.
 
I don’t think there was anything uncharitable about his post. I read it several times. I’ve personally never liked the eye-rolly smiley, but come on…that’s not gonna push anyone away from the Church.
What I believe is that we have to present things the way they are. Some people are super-sensitive and some people just don’t want to hear the truth no matter how much we sweeten it up. I agree with Fr. Corapi and those who’ve brought him up in this thread so far. We need more fire and brimstone talk in our churches if anything, not less. It’s never, ever charitable to confirm someone in their sin.
Think about it…if someone comes to you and says that they are masturbating with impunity or using ABC or cheating on their wife, etc…how exactly would you propose we speak to such a person, Serap? What do we say? Whatever the response, kindness and grace is a given, I think.
Christ told us to admonish the sinner and to instruct the ignorant, and that these are works of mercy; of love. He didn’t say to “sweeten” the truth to make it easier to swallow.
It is a matter of expressing things with a certain amount of humility…not because humility is attractive, but because humility is a more accurate reflection of what our place is in the grand scheme of knowledge and grace.
i’ve read every word of this thread and don’t see where there needs to be any dichotomy between ac claire’s excellent assertions to speak Truth and easterjoy’s entreaty for humility.

story i’ve told before:

22 years ago, my oldest was 8. he had received first Holy Communion a year behind “schedule” because I suffered from a combination of disenfranchisement with the church and utter laziness (i.e., i didnt even really investigate my “icky” church feelings. i simply accepted them as reliable and acted accordingly.)

anyway, my boy finally recieved First Communion. so I thought, “i should be taking this kid to church.”

so on a sunday morning in june, he, all dressed in his First Communion suit and me, in my best attempt at church clothes, went to noon mass at a local church.

as i drove him there, i thought of the important things i could do with that hour so i left him by the church to go to mass himself so i could go buy groceries.

i came back an hour and ten minurtes later and my kid was sitting on the front steps of the church in the broiling hot sun with his suit jacket laid across his knees. he got in the car and said, “there’s no noon mass in the summertime.”

as i was driving out of the parking lot, a priest came out and waved me down. he admonished me (i mean, SCOLDED BAD) for leaving my kid to go to mass himself. didnt i know it was my responsibility to be a good example to the boy? and didnt i know how disheartening it mustve been for the poor kid, waiting in the hot sun for me to come back? "Is THAT how you want to raise your son in the Faith? teach him Mass is a drudgery and a waste of time???’ he demanded.

i had ZERO answer. i was angry. embarrassed. humiliated. sorry for my kid. and of a million other bad feelings-- that guy made me fell all of them.

but

it hit me right between the eyes.

i had to examine what WAS I doing? what DID i mean to accomplish by dropping him off at church? what example was i giving? (nevermind that these 22 years later my actions seem irresponsible and dangerous, too.)

but his admonishment forced me to look right in the face of my sloppy faith.

it was a BIG stepping stone in the sputtering and stalling re-version/conversion process God had been drawing me into.

when someone comes into catholic-faith-land and asks stuff, i’m responsible to God to prudently answer. i dont talk to people in the grocery store like this, just like i’m sure that priest wouldnt have admonished me at a dinner party. but i had put my own foot in the door of Faith. Thank GOD I got some Truth. just like here at CAF. folks here arent chatting in the snack bar line of the local swim club. we’re here on CAF

and here on CAF i owe it to you to share what has helped save me. straight. talking. Truth.

so where’s the humility? *** in the crushing knowledge that I don’t add a single iota to the Truth. *** it didnt begin in me. it doesnt come from me. it isnt mine. and i cant erase it, wreck it or drain it of its power. it’s God’s. and HIS Truth will be TRUE whether i assent to it or not.

that’s where the humility comes from.
 
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