Why Do So Many Catholics Who Are Prominent Political Leaders Go Directly Against Clear Statements Of Scripture, the Church And The Papal Authority?

[Vasian]

Catholic, Governor of Washington State, Christine Gregoire is now 100% behind Homosexual marriage.
In her speech to her subjects, she pretty much stated “her” church, and “her” Pope had far less wisdom, and insight than she had on the issue.

And, the same for homosexual Sen. Ed Murray. Both Catholics, both politicians who not only publicly go against the moral commands of the Bible itself but also against the Papacy and all that it stands for.

It seems these days that legalizing homosexual marriage, and abortion is synonymous with being a Catholic, and being a Prominent Political Leader.

Just think about it a minute… Think about the prominent activists in the country who promote vigorously both the homosexual agenda, and that of abortion. What do you find? You find that many, many are not only Catholics, but many are priests and nuns!

And, at most the Church is tepid in their response, and tepid in their admonishing of such prominent ones. Is 1st Corinthians 5 that difficult for the Church to understand?

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Catholic, pushed marriage equality legislation through the New York Legislature last spring over the intense opposition of New York Archbishop (now Cardinal) Timothy Dolan.
Washington’s Gov. Christine Gregoire and Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley, both Catholics, are seeking to do likewise. California Gov. Jerry Brown, a former seminarian, supports same-sex marriage. The chief sponsor of marriage equality legislation in Olympia, State Sen. Ed Murray, D-Seattle, is a practicing Catholic in a long-term same-sex partnership.

You’ll see no such moral relativism being promoted by an Orthodox Christian, and have it as it were, ignored by the Orthodox Primacy.

Why the Church does not speak loudly and boldly against such prominent leaders in our society is beyond me.

And people ask why I am now Orthodox? One reason is glaring to many of us, who are.

 

[Corpus_Cristi]

Who is John Galt?

 

[Ambrosian]

Friend, it is difficult to defend or explain this. I personally blame the laxity of the spirit which has arisen since Vatican II. It’s the 1960’s western mentality. The politicians are at fault for being libertines, and the churchmen are at fault for being too permissive, politically-correct, etc.!

You’ll see Orthodox monks brawling with non-chalcedonians outside the Holy Sepulchre on certain days of the year. We’re sinners. Let’s get over that fact together and pray for one another…

 

[Vasian]

Who is John Galt?

Indeed…

 

[Vasian]

Friend, it is difficult to defend or explain this. I personally blame the laxity of the spirit which has arisen since Vatican II. It’s the 1960’s western mentality. The politicians are at fault for being libertines, and the churchmen are at fault for being too permissive, politically-correct, etc.!

You’ll see Orthodox monks brawling with non-chalcedonians outside the Holy Sepulchre on certain days of the year. We’re sinners. Let’s get over that fact together and pray for one another…

And I’ll not attempt to defend those childish Monks.
Nonetheless, that is an attempt to compare apples to oranges.
An isolated fist fight to what I’ve just posted?
Surely you jest!?!

 

[Ambrosian]

And I’ll not attempt to defend those childish Monks.
Nonetheless, that is an attempt to compare apples to oranges.
An isolated fist fight to what I’ve just posted?
Surely you jest!?!

I do not jest. It happens every year, and whenever the two ‘sides’ meet; it’s ridiculous, and part of a wide mindset, not isolated. There are many Greek politicians who are Orthodox by birth/upbringing, and are just as faithless as our Catholic apostates. The Orthodox kings of the late 11th century were gouging out each others’ eyes, mutilating each other, and sending royal successors to monasteries. What do you want, perfection?

This question is moot, no matter which Christian culture it is asked of. We are sinners! The West is particularly bad, since V2 has been followed by a massive wave of enlightenment skepticism, and other such nonsense. The East never had to deal with Kant, Voltaire, or Rousseau so much as we have. It’s admirable that we held out as long as we did.

 

[_Abyssinia]

The same question why are there are Catholics who vote and support policies opposed to the Catholic faith is the same question why are there so many Catholics cohabitating and having sex outside marriage. It’s a lack of catechism, a lack of real understanding of the faith that some of these politicians actually believe you can support i.e. contraception, abortion, gay ‘marriage’ and still be a proper Catholic.

Regarding the Orthodox Church, I don’t think there are many Orthodox politicians so you wouldn’t hear as much as you do with Catholics. The Orthodox Church Bishops seems to be very silent on moral issues in society such as abortion, contraception use, gay ‘marriage’ etc. Noted in this article.

 

[triumphguy]

Why? Because weakly catechized Catholics are willing to vote for them.

 

[Cormacnl]

Isn’t there a confusion between two different thing: marriage as a religious ceremony and civil marriage used by the state.

Churches can make rules for their own religious community in relation to religious ceremonies. A State recognised relationship - civil marriage - should be inclusive for all citizens.

Elected state and federal officials aren’t elected and paid to be a represent one group’s views; they are appointed to represent all citizens. Many of these officials – regardless of their church affiliations – have decided there are no legitimate grounds to deny two people of the same sex the same status as is afforded to a man and a woman through civil marriage. To do so is discrimination.

That sort of discrimination is left to self-governing religious communities if they so wish. Churches should be free to make whatever internal rules they like. Personally though I think the question of gay people and civil marriage will be a non-issue for everyone, including Christian churches, in 25 to 50 years.

 

[cornbread_r2]

I don’t vote for politicians to faithfully represent the teachings of a particular religion. I vote for them to represent me. If it ever gets to the point that Catholic politicians can always be counted on to be nothing more than mouthpieces for the Vatican, then I think we’ll see fewer Catholics in office.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Dear cornbread,
thanks for your comments, but sorry to inform you friend,
but a CATHOLIC is required by GOD ALMIGHTY to always act IN ACCORD with the teachings of Christ, IN office and OUT OF office, AT WORK and AT HOME.
If that means fewer Catholics in office in APOSTATE, SPIRIT-BLASPHEMING MODERN AMERICA, then so be it. Better that than to get elected and apostasize (dooming yourself irretrievably) so as to keep being RE-elected.

The Catholic Faith is NOT and never has been, a popularity contest.
When Constantine, under the influence of his Christian mother Helen (Eleni),
began to soften in favor of Christianity, and legalized the Church, that
was on ONE level a VERY GREAT blessing, but it was a MIXED blessing, as we all know. For church and state became in many ways confounded, and with the birth of the “career politician” after the Reformation and the various revolutions, whoring-out of one’s Catholic faith has become all-too-common.

But LEFTWING “Catholics” aren’t the only ones who go against Catholic teachings and principles. SOME (NOT all) “RIGHTWING” Catholics ignore the book of Amos and the repeated teachings of Christ and the apostles on the EVIL of trying to become massively wealthy, to justify all forms of unrestricted Capitalism and massive greed, which they mistakenly call “being entrepreneurial.” There is a genuine “entrepreneurial” spirit which is noble, distinct from that which is coupled with RAW GREED. When the Church calls withholding a worker’s wages from him or her a SIN THAT CRIES TO HEAVEN WITH VENGEANCE, equating it with unrepented sodomy or murder, it is not talking about any old wage that the employer has agreed to pay “depending upon market conditions and market forces,” the church is talking about a LIVING WAGE which ALL workers, even janitors (who are usually paid a below-poverty, below subsistence wage) are entitled to earn. A “living wage” is not JUST for those with trade school certificates and college degrees and creative, entrepreneurial minds. It is for ALL workers who put in a day’s work for a day’s pay. Yes, those with degrees and an entrepreneurial spirit expect, rightly, to make quite a bit more. That’s okay (as long as your TRUST isn’t in your money and creature comforts and you are VERY, VERY generous to GOD, his CHURCH and to the NEEDY). But a living wage, which ALL employers of full time, primary income employees are obligated by God to pay (whether they think so, agree, or NOT) is a wage which allows the breadwinner(s) to provide a modest living to support himself, a wife, children and provide food, clothing, shelter and educational opportunity for them. It is not some garbage subsistence wage that a billionaire corporation, HUGELY PROFITABLE, “wants” to pay and can get away with paying under our corrupt laws which allow them to do just that, namely, work people half to death and pay them far less than even an individual can live on, while they brag openly about how ENORMOUSLY profitable they are (and I have seen this done with my own eyes and heard it, repeatedly, with my own ears, so don’t anyone dare tell me that I am some kind of Leftist making up stuff. The more they HAVE, these elitists, the LESS they want to pay, and even steal back part of your pay if they can, and I’ve seen them do it and had them do it to me, repeatedly, and it is perfectly legal. It is a SIN which CRIES TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE, but it is perfectly legal. And for the Super Rich to do that to the poor is far more serious than some punk robbing a multibillion dollar bank of several grand. What the punk robber did is horrendous too, but depriving the worker of his or her just, living wage is, according to the Church’s magisterium, a SIN WHICH CRIES TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE. And THAT is not something to sneeze at).
Still, in my experience, it is the LEFTWING “catholics” in public office who are the most blatantly and defiantly and openly APOSTATE from Church doctrine, and whose bishops and priests knowingly let them get away with it. I not long before the death of “Teddy” saw the Archbishop of Washington DC walk in between two notorious proAbort Catholic politicians, who promote sodomy and abortion openly and defiantly, as if they were respectable, honorable, faithful examples of good Catholics, right down the aisle of the Cathedral, like three bosom buddies, right after he had given these wicked behaving men sacrilegious holy communions (they were not then, nor now, repentant for their support of murder and sodomy, so yes their communions were sacrilegious).
Jaypeeto4

 

[SteveGC]

Isn’t there a confusion between two different thing: marriage as a religious ceremony and civil marriage used by the state.

Churches can make rules for their own religious community in relation to religious ceremonies. A State recognised relationship - civil marriage - should be inclusive for all citizens.

Elected state and federal officials aren’t elected and paid to be a represent one group’s views; they are appointed to represent all citizens. Many of these officials – regardless of their church affiliations – have decided there are no legitimate grounds to deny two people of the same sex the same status as is afforded to a man and a woman through civil marriage. To do so is discrimination.

That sort of discrimination is left to self-governing religious communities if they so wish. Churches should be free to make whatever internal rules they like. Personally though I think the question of gay people and civil marriage will be a non-issue for everyone, including Christian churches, in 25 to 50 years.

This post basically says this: Catholics are not a part of society. They have their own closed society, separate from the rest of the country, and therefore are not to interfere with that larger society. They really should have no say, no vote…because, when they get to have a say, or vote, and they vote for people and policies that support their moral teachings, they are imposing that moral teaching on the rest of us. But we “regular society” folks, on the other hand, who base our morals on…well, whatever we base them on…DO get to have a say, DO get to have a vote. And when we vote for people and policies that go against the moral teaching of Catholics…we are NOT imposing that on them, because, you know, they’re not part of the same society as we are.

Doesn’t matter if we have our own marriage sacrament; doesn’t matter that no Catholic Church will marry two same-sex people. We’re not voting against it because we’re afraid that law will infiltrate the sacrament. It’ll never happen. No, we vote against it because if it’s allowed, it affirms in society (of which, yes, we are a part) that same sex relationships and sexual acts are normal, and will not cause the condemnation of those who actively and willfully participate in them. This is simply not true. It is out of a deep act of love and concern for souls that we fight for what we fight for in the public square. That includes all the souls of those who try to stifle our voices in that square.

And it is not discrimination to vote against same sex marriage, although that’s what the homosexual crowd will lead you to think. If they want the benefits of what this country offers to married couples, they can find ways without desecrating the institution. Most benefits are already available to them, in fact.

 

[Cormacnl]

Dear cornbread,
thanks for your comments, but sorry to inform you friend,
but a CATHOLIC is required by GOD ALMIGHTY to always act IN ACCORD with the teachings of Christ, IN office and OUT OF office, AT WORK and AT HOME.
If that means fewer Catholics in office in APOSTATE, SPIRIT-BLASPHEMING MODERN AMERICA, then so be it. Better that than to get elected and apostasize (dooming yourself irretrievably) so as to keep being RE-elected.

The Catholic Faith is NOT and never has been, a popularity contest.
When Constantine, under the influence of his Christian mother Helen (Eleni),
began to soften in favor of Christianity, and legalized the Church, that
was on ONE level a VERY GREAT blessing, but it was a MIXED blessing, as we all know. For church and state became in many ways confounded, and with the birth of the “career politician” after the Reformation and the various revolutions, whoring-out of one’s Catholic faith has become all-too-common.

But LEFTWING “Catholics” aren’t the only ones who go against Catholic teachings and principles. SOME (NOT all) “RIGHTWING” Catholics ignore the book of Amos and the repeated teachings of Christ and the apostles on the EVIL of trying to become massively wealthy, to justify all forms of unrestricted Capitalism and massive greed, which they mistakenly call “being entrepreneurial.” There is a genuine “entrepreneurial” spirit which is noble, distinct from that which is coupled with RAW GREED. When the Church calls withholding a worker’s wages from him or her a SIN THAT CRIES TO HEAVEN WITH VENGEANCE, equating it with unrepented sodomy or murder, it is not talking about any old wage that the employer has agreed to pay “depending upon market conditions and market forces,” the church is talking about a LIVING WAGE which ALL workers, even janitors (who are usually paid a below-poverty, below subsistence wage) are entitled to earn. A “living wage” is not JUST for those with trade school certificates and college degrees and creative, entrepreneurial minds. It is for ALL workers who put in a day’s work for a day’s pay. Yes, those with degrees and an entrepreneurial spirit expect, rightly, to make quite a bit more. That’s okay (as long as your TRUST isn’t in your money and creature comforts and you are VERY, VERY generous to GOD, his CHURCH and to the NEEDY). But a living wage, which ALL employers of full time, primary income employees are obligated by God to pay (whether they think so, agree, or NOT) is a wage which allows the breadwinner(s) to provide a modest living to support himself, a wife, children and provide food, clothing, shelter and educational opportunity for them. It is not some garbage subsistence wage that a billionaire corporation, HUGELY PROFITABLE, “wants” to pay and can get away with paying under our corrupt laws which allow them to do just that, namely, work people half to death and pay them far less than even an individual can live on, while they brag openly about how ENORMOUSLY profitable they are (and I have seen this done with my own eyes and heard it, repeatedly, with my own ears, so don’t anyone dare tell me that I am some kind of Leftist making up stuff. The more they HAVE, these elitists, the LESS they want to pay, and even steal back part of your pay if they can, and I’ve seen them do it and had them do it to me, repeatedly, and it is perfectly legal. It is a SIN which CRIES TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE, but it is perfectly legal. And for the Super Rich to do that to the poor is far more serious than some punk robbing a multibillion dollar bank of several grand. What the punk robber did is horrendous too, but depriving the worker of his or her just, living wage is, according to the Church’s magisterium, a SIN WHICH CRIES TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE. And THAT is not something to sneeze at).
Still, in my experience, it is the LEFTWING “catholics” in public office who are the most blatantly and defiantly and openly APOSTATE from Church doctrine, and whose bishops and priests knowingly let them get away with it. I not long before the death of “Teddy” saw the Archbishop of Washington DC walk in between two notorious proAbort Catholic politicians, who promote sodomy and abortion openly and defiantly, as if they were respectable, honorable, faithful examples of good Catholics, right down the aisle of the Cathedral, like three bosom buddies, right after he had given these wicked behaving men sacrilegious holy communions (they were not then, nor now, repentant for their support of murder and sodomy, so yes their communions were sacrilegious).
Jaypeeto4

Friend, the principle of equality under the law does (sometimes) trump religious dogma in the real world. Catholics, like everyone else, can therefore choose to hide in a religious ivory tower or they can interact with the ever-changing world.

 

[SteveGC]

Friend, the principal of equality under the law does (sometimes) trump religious dogma in the real world. Catholics, like everyone else, can therefore choose to hide in a religious ivory tower or they can interact with the ever-changing world.

LOL. Get in line, you Catholics! You need to compromise on your beliefs, because, you know, the rest of us are determined in what we believe. Come join us in our moral relativism so we can make sure everyone can just do whatever they want. It’s not like there’s any consequences for that!

 

[Jaypeeto4]

**You’ll see no such moral relativism being promoted by an Orthodox Christian, and have it as it were, ignored by the Orthodox Primacy.

Why the Church does not speak loudly and boldly against such prominent leaders in our society is beyond me.

And people ask why I am now Orthodox? One reason is glaring to many of us, who are. **

While I, above, just blasted certain Catholic bishops for tolerating wickedness,
this “Orthodox” claim, praising the virtues (by contrast) of “Orthodox” leaders, is totally
wrong. I can name two VERY FAMOUS “Orthodox” politicians who advocate sin and wickedness who have NOT been publicly disciplined by the Orthodox hierarchy for their public advocacy of sin, namely, Mr. Dukakis and media commentator and former Clinton administration member George Stephanopoulos. There are many others as well, but as some have correctly noted, the Orthodox church and it’s presence in American politics is MUCH smaller.

As for the virtuous orthodox hierarchy, my best friend is Greek Orthodox, and has told me, (with good, experiential reasons) that most of the Orthodox hierarchy is as corrupt as all hell, including one very well known, now-dead Archbishop who was, they learned, helping certain rogue government elements run illegal drugs.
By the way, Cuba is a drug runners haven under Castro.
Havana is (at least nominally) a Roman Catholic populated city, with a teeny smattering of equally persecuted JEWS. It is not known for having any orthodox christians there.
And Castro is NOT KNOWN for building Christian churches. EVER.
Yet, just a few years ago, with government funds, this communist tyrant built a gorgeous Orthodox cathedral and presented it as a gift to the Patriarch of Constantinople, who was the boss of the archbishop previously mentioned, who is now dead.
Gee, WHY would an atheist, god-hating communist tyrant like FIDEL
build and pay for a beautiful Orthodox cathedral in Havana and give it to the
Patriarch of Constantinople in a grand ceremony (which “his holiness” flew to communist Havana to attend) ???
He has NEVER built a new beautiful CATHOLIC cathedral for the millions of Catholics who populate the island, nor even given money to greatly refurbish the old one, but builds a beautiful Cathedral for an at-best extremely NEGLIGIBLE Orthodox population???
VERY, VERY odd.
Ask the right questions, folks. And follow the money trails.
Unfortunately, in this world, things are rarely what they seem.
It is through the Looking Glass. Black is white, and white is black.
This is NOT an attack on Eastern Orthodox Christians, nor on my fellow Catholics,
but to note corruption or likely corruption among some of the hierarchy of either the Eastern or the Western church, is not an attack on those churches nor on their members,
just an observation. And a check to our respective “pride.”
Jaypeeto4

 

[cornbread_r2]

Dear cornbread,
thanks for your comments, but sorry to inform you friend,
but a CATHOLIC is required by GOD ALMIGHTY to always act IN ACCORD with the teachings of Christ, IN office and OUT OF office, AT WORK and AT HOME.

I assume that would include Supreme Court justices?

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Would it apply to Supreme Court Justices? Oh Yes.
Do they always comply? OH NO.

Some of the “conservative” ones ignore pleas from the pope to suspend use
of the death penalty at least for the time being (which is not an “infallible” teaching nor does the papacy claim it to be, but it is still his express wish as chief bishop of the Church), and the “liberal” ones ((like “Justice” William Brennan, now dead)) helped give us legalized babykilling (abortion), despite claiming to be “Catholics.”
The first is very upsetting, the latter is absolutely despicable.

Jaypeeto4

 

[cornbread_r2]

Would it apply to Supreme Court Justices? Oh Yes.
Do they always comply? OH NO.

Some of the “conservative” ones ignore pleas from the pope to suspend use
of the death penalty at least for the time being (which is not an “infallible” teaching nor does the papacy claim it to be, but it is still his express wish as chief bishop of the Church), and the “liberal” ones ((like “Justice” William Brennan, now dead)) helped give us legalized babykilling (abortion), despite claiming to be “Catholics.”
The first is very upsetting, the latter is absolutely despicable.

Jaypeeto4

The reason I asked is because it seems that every election cycle we see bishops and other Catholics publicly calling out elected officials for not being faithful to Catholic teachings, but I have yet to see any public condemnation of Catholic Supreme Court judges. It’s now been more than six years since Catholics have held a majority on the Supreme Court and still nary a peep, at least that I’m aware of. It doesn’t seem fair.

 

[Khalid]

You’ll see Orthodox monks brawling with monophysite and Nestorian heretics outside the Holy Sepulchre on certain days of the year. We’re sinners. Let’s get over that fact together and pray for one another…

 

[Jaypeeto4]

It’s now been more than six years since Catholics have held a majority on the Supreme Court and still nary a peep, at least that I’m aware of. It doesn’t seem fair.

Actually, the popes JPII and Benedict XVI have complained about justices still enforcing the death penalty today.

But if you’re asking why they don’t raise cain over Judges not abolishing the death penalty, while (occasionally) speaking out against proAbort politicians,
it is partly because

a) the teaching against the Death Penalty has never been defined as infallible,
it is a recent development due to the fact that there are more facilities available
to incarcerate violent people rather than kill them, plus allowing them to live
gives them a chance to repent (as God gave Cain, David, Manasseh, etc etc etc)

b) Abortion is the killing of the innocent and is ALWAYS the mortal sin of murder,
in each and every case, objectively speaking, without exception. A baby is objectively
innocent of any capital offenses, whereas a violent murderer is NOT innocent.

c) The “catholic” proAbort politicians are well-aware that they are going against the
INFALLIBLE teaching of the ENTIRE Christian church since the first century A.D.
on this issue (even if apostate liberal protestant churches now are pro-Abortion).

d) Catholics who knowingly and deliberately vote for a proAbort are voting for someone
who, THEY KNOW, is going to HELP in the killing of millions of innocents.
They are no different than they would be if the candidates were members of
the American Nazi Party and openly admitted that if voted-for and elected,
they planned to start killing off the Jews once they took office.
And all the more so if these American Nazi’s dared to claim to be CATHOLICS
too. The heinousness of this is unbelievable.

Jaypeeto4