Why Do So Many Catholics Who Are Prominent Political Leaders Go Directly Against Clear Statements Of Scripture, the Church And The Papal Authority?

[TheRealJuliane]

Who is John Galt?

Was he Catholic?





Ayn Rand was an atheist.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

And regarding my post above,
please don’t anyone waste my time talking about some of the good economic and/or
“social justice” programs advocated by some of the ProAborts.
It doesn’t matter.
The fact is, they advocate, and go out of their way to ENABLE and PROTECT and PROMOTE, the legal killing, murder, of innocent developing babies, and in some cases, even babies that have emerged from the birth canal.

Good economic / justice policies? That is highly debatable, but even if it could be
infallibly demonstrated to be true, it wouldn’t matter.
Because they still advocate the homicide, murder, of innocents and act to ENABLE it.

The NAZIs had some EXCELLENT national economic policies.
Within three years of taking power, Germany was prospering like crazy under Nazi rule, AND the Nazis provided nearly all German families with free or low-cost automobiles (The Volkswagen is thier baby). They built or tremendously expanded Germany’s entire infrastructure and built and perfected the Autobahn, enjoyed by Germans to this day.
They opened many schools and medical facilities, promoted Good Health programs and exercise programs and good dietary programs for German Youth. They opened many free clinics and provided vaccination programs far and wide. In short, They had policies that would be the envy of many American liberals. But they still advocated and promoted and, eventually, COMMITTED, mass murder, of six million innocent Jews
and six million other innocent victims who had done them NO wrong, namely,
Gypsies, Slavs, Catholic Priests, bishops, nuns and laity, some evangelical protestant Christians, Poles, gays, lesbians, and Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons, for no other reason than that all these people — who had done them NO wrong — were in their way and did not fit in with their racist, Master Race, New Pagan Religion theories and plans and agenda. And yes, in the 1932/33 election cycle, SOME Catholics DID vote for the Nazis and Hitler, although it must be said that the areas where Hitler and the Nazis got the LEAST percentage of the vote were those areas with the LARGEST Catholic populations.
In America, by contrast, 50% or more of professed Catholics almost habitually vote for
known, loud, defiant ProAborts. That is absolutely terrible, because they know what these people stand for, they know what they plan to do, and they know what they deliberately enable and help to happen once they take office. Very sad indeed.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Ayn Rand was an atheist.

That’s perfectly true,…well, at least partly.
Ayn Rand DID acknowledge a “god” of sorts, but not a supreme spirit being.
Her “god” was her own EGO, and she advocated self worship
of one’s own EGO in her books.

Back years ago, when I wanted (vainly) to appear “intellectual,” I bought some of
Ayn Rand’s stuff and started reading it. Since she was a “philosopher,” I thought I might learn something useful. I was appalled at what this woman believed. She said it
best when she bragged about “the VIRTUE of SELFISHNESS.”
I’m sorry, but that is just plain EVIL, as is her advocacy
of the worship of one’s own EGO and throwing everybody else to the wind
to fend for themselves, devoid of all sense of charity, so long as one’s own ego’s needs
were met. I’m sorry, but I find this woman’s philosophy BENEATH DISGUSTING.
I also learned, and after learning her true philosophy I was not shocked to learn,
that she ran her “organization” like a cult, with her as cult leader, and that (typical of cultish groups) there was apparently a lot of sexual weirdness going on between her and some of her followers, too. I haven’t seen clear documentation of that (the sexual weirdness stuff), but I have heard it from many and diverse sources familiar with her, her group, and her ways in general.
Keep Ayn Rand and her sick, selfish philosophy far, far away from me. Ugh.

Jaypeeto4

 

[Vasian]

**You’ll see no such moral relativism being promoted by an Orthodox Christian, and have it as it were, ignored by the Orthodox Primacy.

Why the Church does not speak loudly and boldly against such prominent leaders in our society is beyond me.

And people ask why I am now Orthodox? One reason is glaring to many of us, who are. **

While I, above, just blasted certain Catholic bishops for tolerating wickedness,
this “Orthodox” claim, praising the virtues (by contrast) of “Orthodox” leaders, is totally
wrong. I can name two VERY FAMOUS “Orthodox” politicians who advocate sin and wickedness who have NOT been publicly disciplined by the Orthodox hierarchy for their public advocacy of sin, namely, Mr. Dukakis and media commentator and former Clinton administration member George Stephanopoulos. There are many others as well, but as some have correctly noted, the Orthodox church and it’s presence in American politics is MUCH smaller.

As for the virtuous orthodox hierarchy, my best friend is Greek Orthodox, and has told me, (with good, experiential reasons) that most of the Orthodox hierarchy is as corrupt as all hell, including one very well known, now-dead Archbishop who was, they learned, helping certain rogue government elements run illegal drugs.
By the way, Cuba is a drug runners haven under Castro.
Havana is (at least nominally) a Roman Catholic populated city, with a teeny smattering of equally persecuted JEWS. It is not known for having any orthodox christians there.
And Castro is NOT KNOWN for building Christian churches. EVER.
Yet, just a few years ago, with government funds, this communist tyrant built a gorgeous Orthodox cathedral and presented it as a gift to the Patriarch of Constantinople, who was the boss of the archbishop previously mentioned, who is now dead.
Gee, WHY would an atheist, god-hating communist tyrant like FIDEL
build and pay for a beautiful Orthodox cathedral in Havana and give it to the
Patriarch of Constantinople in a grand ceremony (which “his holiness” flew to communist Havana to attend) ???
He has NEVER built a new beautiful CATHOLIC cathedral for the millions of Catholics who populate the island, nor even given money to greatly refurbish the old one, but builds a beautiful Cathedral for an at-best extremely NEGLIGIBLE Orthodox population???
VERY, VERY odd.
Ask the right questions, folks. And follow the money trails.
Unfortunately, in this world, things are rarely what they seem.
It is through the Looking Glass. Black is white, and white is black.
This is NOT an attack on Eastern Orthodox Christians, nor on my fellow Catholics,
but to note corruption or likely corruption among some of the hierarchy of either the Eastern or the Western church, is not an attack on those churches nor on their members,
just an observation. And a check to our respective “pride.”
Jaypeeto4

Mine was not an attack on the Catholics either.

Nonetheless, with you having posted such an accurate companion to my post, it would seem that many “true Christians” should be escaping the corruption, and heresy that is so prevalent in Both Church’s , no?

What’s that old idiom attributed to St John Chrysostom?
*“The road to Hell is paved with the bones of priests and monks, and the skulls of bishops are the lamp posts that light the path.” *

Perhaps these words are no less truer today for those that turn a blind eye to the flock, especially that portion of the flock that hold prominent positions in government who relish in their fame and in ignoring the clear statement of Scripture.

Perhaps a more political neutral life is more in line with being a “true Christian” more often than not?

John 17: 15-16…"My prayer is not that you take them out of the world… "They are not of the world, even as I am not of it."

 

[cornbread_r2]

It’s now been more than six years since Catholics have held a majority on the Supreme Court and still nary a peep, at least that I’m aware of. It doesn’t seem fair.

Actually, the popes JPII and Benedict XVI have complained about justices still enforcing the death penalty today.

But if you’re asking why they don’t raise cain over Judges not abolishing the death penalty, while (occasionally) speaking out against proAbort politicians,
it is partly because

[snip]

Jaypeeto4

Actually, no, I was asking why bishops and other Catholic spokespersons don’t ever subject the Catholic Supreme Court Justices to the same criticism for not being faithful to Catholic teachings **regarding abortion **as they do to elected Catholic officials. It seems to me, if one wants to be consistent, then every time Pelosi, Kerry, Biden and others are called out publicly on the abortion issue then so should Roberts, Scalia, Alito, Thomas, Kennedy and Sotomayor also be publicly called out.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Actually, it would be Sotomayor and Kennedy who should be singled out
by the magisterium for criticism.

Clarence Thomas? I think he is still an Episcopalian technically, but he IS
proLife and votes that way regarding abortion.

Roberts, Scalia and Alito vote proLife on abortion. I don’t know of any instances
where they have voted to SUPPORT abortion. If they have, they definitely need
to repent of it and go to confession and make amends as best they can.

 

[cornbread_r2]

Actually, it would be Sotomayor and Kennedy who should be singled out
by the magisterium for criticism.

Clarence Thomas? I think he is still an Episcopalian technically, but he IS
proLife and votes that way regarding abortion.

Roberts, Scalia and Alito vote proLife on abortion. I don’t know of any instances
where they have voted to SUPPORT abortion. If they have, they definitely need
to repent of it and go to confession and make amends as best they can.

Why aren’t they all publicly admonished for not overturning Roe v Wade?

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Hi Vasian,
thanks for your comments.
Yes, Chrysostom and many other saints have said and/or written that the floor
of hell will be littered with bad bishops and bad priests ---- and also of BAD laity
if we fail to pray daily for God to protect His bishops and priests with the Grace(s)
that they need to “final persevere” without falling or apostasizing.

I most certainly do NOT believe that most Eastern Orthodox priests are corrupt
and apostate, no, I don’t. My friend when talking about the hierarchy being as corrupt as hell wasn’t talking about "all of them,’ either. In fact, because of the Archbishop (who shall not be named) and his apparent horrible activities, his father and family friends founded an Orthodox parish of their own, and were granted to be under the jurisdiction of the Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria. Then THIS PARTICULAR Archbishop began raising hell about it after a while and trying to cause all kind of trouble, so the late Patriarch so to speak “threw his hands in the air” and withdrew his jurisdiction over them. Plus, some of their parishoners at their parish turned out to be troublemaking spies sent there by the now–dead archbishop to cause all kinds of trouble (which they did). Unbeknownst to my friend and his dad, some of those who helped choose a new priest when their previous priest passed away, were members of the spies/troublemakers. They ended up arranging for a very bad man, a priest, to take over the administration of the parish. This priest was a devotee of the Occult Arts (which my friend discovered when the priest called him, hysterical with terror, and begged him to come over to the priest’s house immediately. When he got there, frightening supernatural manifestations were happening right at that very moment, including the interior of the house being covered, wall to wall and from top to bottom, with apparently millions of flies. This is not a false story and nothing to laugh at.
The house wasn’t dirty or anything to cause the flies, either. The man was doing Occult stuff etc and caused this to happen, and now he was terrified of what he had caused to occur (actually, we all KNOW who caused that scary manifestation, and it wasn’t the Lord). They got rid of this man lickety split. Then the (as yet unknown) troublemakers arranged for the appointment as priest of yet ANOTHER bad man, who blew the parish’s funds and wiped it out financially. They ended up having to close the parish and sell the property to the Seventh-Day Adventists. A beautiful little Orthodox Church with a gorgeous iconostasis and everything, had to be sold off to a protestant sect. Very sad.
Since then, my friend is so bitter that he WILL NOT set foot in an Orthodox Church that is part of the GOA of North America, or whatever it is called now (used to be of North AND South America). He is also seriously considering embracing Roman Catholicism, but
of either the Greek Catholic or Melkite eastern rite. I told him I was glad to hear that but warned him not to expect saintly behavior out of many of the Catholic hierarchs either.
He said he knew that, but just wanted to get away from those he called the greek mafia which attends the O.C. church that he grew up in (these folks did some hideously illegal things, as a group, to him, his family, and to THAT church, too, which I won’t go into, because these are very dangerous people from what I understand and have apparently bought-off a number of lawyers etc, so that it is almost, in fact it is, impossible to hold their feet to the fire legally for their horrible actions. But they go to Divine Liturgy at that church every Sunday and put on the Pious Act in their finest clothes.
But that kind of complete, unrepentant evil hypocrisy and unrepented criminality cannot,
not justly, be laid only at feet of the Orthodox, NOR at the feet of most members of the Orthodox Church, either. Nor at the feet of MOST Orthodox priests.
That would be grossly unfair and inaccurate.
And besides, there are quite a few Catholics who behave habitually wickedly too, with no remorse, no repentance, no confession, no even attempt at doing better, none,
but DO go to Mass on Sunday in their fine millenery and put on a Pious Act for an hour, to be seen, and drop a buck in the collection plate (and I do mean one SINGLE buck, when they drive Lexus’s, Porsches, Lincolns, Ford Mustangs, etc.), while living like Devils the entire rest of the week. Just look at many of our politicians and corporate leaders. And the same is true for protestants, even for the “evangelical” ones.
It’s very sad. They, we, and certainly I, need to be constantly repenting.
And PRAYING. God sometimes sends powerfuls graces (gifts from the Holy Spirit) to people who are unbelievers to lead them to faith and repentance, but for baptized Christians, no graces are given, normally, unless we show the respect and humility to ASK FOR THEM in PRAYER.
God bless you,
Jaypeeto4

 

[Jaypeeto4]

**Why aren’t they all publicly admonished for not overturning Roe v Wade? **

They are constantly being URGED to do whatever they can to overturn Roe v. Wade
(and Roe, herself, Norma McCorvey, is also one who is urging that it be overturned!!!)

You have to grasp how the Supreme Court works.
They didn’t just walk into the courtroom one day in 1973 and “declare Abortion legal.”

There was a big Case presented to the Court, Roe v Wade, which was argued up, down, sideways and backwards. Then, finding a “right to privacy” in the Constitution which doesn’t really exist there, and even if it did, it doesn’t cover murder, because no one is allowed to murder anyone in the privacy of one’s own home, for pete’ sake, but using this trumped up “privacy” claim, the liberal majority passed Roe v. Wade, legalizing abortion in the USA.

Similarly, the Judges cannot simply walk into the courtroom one morning and declare abortion illegal. People have to bring cases before the Court, cases which make sense and are not frivollous, which include as part of their petition a petition to either reverse Roe v Wade OR simply declare abortion illegal once again. It has to be a decision made on a particular court case.

Thomas, Scalia, Alito and Roberts, I have no doubt, would vote to declare the practice unconstitutional, not founded on ANY constitutional right (which it ISN’T in reality) and declare it illegal. But the liberal Majority would definitely outvote them on it. Of THAT you can be sure.
It is the PRESIDENT who appoints the Supreme Court Justices, and they remain on the court until THEY decide to retire.
So if you want any hope of the Supreme Court outlawing abortion, you MUST vote for a president who is staunchly proLife and committed to appoint strict constitutionalist Judges to the nation’s courts, including especially the Supreme Court.
If a LIBERAL is elected president again in 2012, you can kiss the Abortion issue goodbye, and any hope of a proLife victory GOODBYE, for the next 15 to 30 years, GUARANTEED. The same if the liberals retain control of the Senate in November 2012,
and the same if the liberals, God forbid, regain the House of Representatives in
November of 2012. COUNT ON IT.
I DO NOT LIKE the lack of social commitment of the conservatives, but we can and
WILL fight about THAT. But Abortion? There’s NOTHING valid to ARGUE there.
It is always, 100%, TOTALLY EVIL, all the time, for it is always the killing of an innocent infant.
As they say, it’s time to THROW THE B*****RDS OUT.

Jaypeeto4

 

[cornbread_r2]

**Why aren’t they all publicly admonished for not overturning Roe v Wade? **

They are constantly being URGED to do whatever they can to overturn Roe v. Wade
(and Roe, herself, Norma McCorvey, is also one who is urging that it be overturned!!!)

You have to grasp how the Supreme Court works.
They didn’t just walk into the courtroom one day in 1973 and “declare Abortion legal.”

[snip]

Jaypeeto4

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission was a recent case before this court. This was a run-of-the-mill case that could have been decided on very narrow grounds, but this court used it as a springboard to overturn more than 100 years of precedent. There’s no reason they couldn’t do the same with any case before them that even remotely touched on the abortion issue.

What you’ve written still doesn’t address the disparity between the vociferous public condemnation of certain Catholic elected officials by bishops and other Catholic spokespersons and the lack of any such public criticism of Catholic Supreme Court justices.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

What you’ve written still doesn’t address the disparity between the vociferous public condemnation of certain Catholic elected officials by bishops and other Catholic spokespersons and the lack of any such public criticism of Catholic Supreme Court justices

First of all, only TWO of such proAbort Supreme Court Justices claim to be “catholic.”
The other Catholic Justices are proLife.
WHY should they be criticized?

As for the Citizens United case, CU is not as respectable and taken-seriously organization as you might think. They beg for tons of money in their mailings, but other than that, they just basically shill for republican gripes. That’s my experience with them (and I used to write many checks to them back years ago. Not anymore.)
As for any case they brought before the court, thanks to the elections of Clinton and Obama, especially Obama, NOW most of the Court, the majority, is pro Abortion Liberals.

I don’t understand this “great disparity” you are claiming exists.
In my experience, the American Bishops are NOT, by and large, vociferously condemning the ProAbortion “catholic” politicians. YOU AND I are doing so but, shamefully, most of the bishops are NOT. In fact, it often appears that they are out and out kissing their apostate fannies, in fact. Why do I say that? Because, FOR EXAMPLE, a couple of years ago the AB of Washington gave NOTORIOUS and DEFIANT “catholic” proAborts COMMUNION, which is a sacrilege, and then walked up the aisle of the Cathedral side by side with them during the processional as if these apostates were some kinds of catholic heroes of the faith. Vociferous criticism of these politicians? PLEASE, since they are dems, they seem to be having practically a LOVE AFFAIR with them.

As for those of us laity and proLife activist priests, we ARE criticizing, VOCIFEROUSLY, the Supreme Court justices who support abortion. The bishops? A few of them are, but most of them, for some reason, remain silent when they should be publicly excommunicating these defiant people. These are not ignorant people who do not realize what they are doing and what they are voting to enable, fund, support, and help keep happening. They know FULL WELL. Look at the funeral of the late senator Teddy.
Priests and laity BEGGED the AB of Boston NOT to hold a public funeral for such a scandalously defiant and heretical and disobedient man who NEVER made ANY public renunciation of his apostate views and actions. How did the erudite AB respond? He held a PUBLIC, Catholic Church funeral. Neither he, nor any other Catholic priest, has ever claimed that this late senator EVER renounced his apostate, evil acts and was absolved.
(Announcing that would NOT be a betrayal of the seal of confession, either, because this man WAS A PUBLIC SINNER AND APOSTATE, a DEFIANT public sinner at that).
And who spoke, in the holy House of God, at this PUBLIC Catholic funeral for this proAbort defiant, deliberately disobedient man? Who spoke? A LITANY OF PRO-abortion politicians, some of THEM apostate Catholics too. This is disgusting beyond words. It would be far less sinful and scandalous if Bernie Madoff were to give the homily at your parish than for this to happen, and THAT without Madoff first repenting of having ripped innocent, helpless people off for BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

There is no disparity. The bishops, many of them, are failing utterly to publicly denounce, much less DISCIPLINE, apostate politicians, which they WOULD DO if these politicians publicly used the “N” word or advocated segregation. It would be politically correct to discipline them for this. It is not politically correct to discipline them for promoting abortion. DO the bishops ever speak out loudly on issues? YES THEY DO.
They speak out VERY LOUDLY demanding an end to the Death Penalty.
((This viewpoint, anti-Death Penalty, also happens to be popular with the Liberal Media.))
((So they won’t be criticized in the press and on the news for being vocally anti-DP)).
So, when they WANT TO speak out, they DO.
THAT is what really bugs me about the abortion issue.
If a politician ADVOCATED BRINGING BACK RACIAL SEGREGATION, you can be sure that most bishops would openly urge catholics to NOT VOTE for this man or woman.
But proAborts? The silence is deafening.
God bless you,
Jaypeeto4

 

[Corpus_Cristi]

Was he Catholic?





Ayn Rand was an atheist.

I take it that if you did read Atlas Shrugged that you possibly missed the significance of that question. I was referencing a work by Ayn Rand, yes, but not for the sake of the author herself, but for the sake of the meaning of that question in the plot. Why ask questions you already have an answer to? Why ask questions to which there are no definite, singular answers that apply across the board? Why can’t we just chalk it up to the American political system as unfortunate as the matter as? What was the point of starting this thread the way it was started (with a loaded question)?

Part of a potential answer to that question is the Church in America herself. You can’t blame Catholics for having been taught poorly decades ago. Why the poor catechesis? Is it because Catholics of America past saw how unwanted they were in a land full of Protestants and in a desperate (and somewhat pathetic attempt to belong) desired to become more WASPy and that’s how we got here? One lost aspect of our unique Catholic identity at a time? We bought into one bill of goods with the left and we’re doing the same delusional things with the right and we’re still not satisfied? It’s so easy to place the blame for our problems…unless the blame is really with us all along. You really have to wonder if the Church in America would be dealing with this right now if we had simply maintained our Catholic identity instead of trying to look more like the row of suburban Americans that didn’t like us to begin with. The main problem isn’t creating legislation with the Catholic conscience in mind. The issue is that American political theory was established with a very progressive, very Protestant, and somewhat anti-Catholic conscience in mind. Catholic orthodoxy and American politics are not as easy to reconcile as many believe it to be somehow. Voting for “the right people” is not going to solve our problems as Catholics trying to live out our faith in this land because NEWSFLASH: there never is a right person either on the right, on the left, or even in the middle.

God bless,

Rob

 

[Cormacnl]

LOL. Get in line, you Catholics! You need to compromise on your beliefs, because, you know, the rest of us are determined in what we believe. Come join us in our moral relativism so we can make sure everyone can just do whatever they want. It’s not like there’s any consequences for that!

Ah yes, I did not express myself very well. Apologies. The ivory tower quip was unhelpful and unintentional rude. The point I tried but failed to make was that some Catholic political representatives may support policies that are contrary to catholic teaching because they feel that those outside the Catholic Church should not have to abide by its rules.

It is valid therefore to ask whether these people are really ‘Catholic’. Ultimately it is for the individual to decide the answer.

 

[ryecroft]

Dear cornbread,
thanks for your comments, but sorry to inform you friend,
but a CATHOLIC is required by GOD ALMIGHTY to always act IN ACCORD with the teachings of Christ, IN office and OUT OF office, AT WORK and AT HOME.
If that means fewer Catholics in office in APOSTATE, SPIRIT-BLASPHEMING MODERN AMERICA, then so be it. Better that than to get elected and apostasize (dooming yourself irretrievably) so as to keep being RE-elected.

The Catholic Faith is NOT and never has been, a popularity contest.
When Constantine, under the influence of his Christian mother Helen (Eleni),
began to soften in favor of Christianity, and legalized the Church, that
was on ONE level a VERY GREAT blessing, but it was a MIXED blessing, as we all know. For church and state became in many ways confounded, and with the birth of the “career politician” after the Reformation and the various revolutions, whoring-out of one’s Catholic faith has become all-too-common.

But LEFTWING “Catholics” aren’t the only ones who go against Catholic teachings and principles. SOME (NOT all) “RIGHTWING” Catholics ignore the book of Amos and the repeated teachings of Christ and the apostles on the EVIL of trying to become massively wealthy, to justify all forms of unrestricted Capitalism and massive greed, which they mistakenly call “being entrepreneurial.” There is a genuine “entrepreneurial” spirit which is noble, distinct from that which is coupled with RAW GREED. When the Church calls withholding a worker’s wages from him or her a SIN THAT CRIES TO HEAVEN WITH VENGEANCE, equating it with unrepented sodomy or murder, it is not talking about any old wage that the employer has agreed to pay “depending upon market conditions and market forces,” the church is talking about a LIVING WAGE which ALL workers, even janitors (who are usually paid a below-poverty, below subsistence wage) are entitled to earn. A “living wage” is not JUST for those with trade school certificates and college degrees and creative, entrepreneurial minds. It is for ALL workers who put in a day’s work for a day’s pay. Yes, those with degrees and an entrepreneurial spirit expect, rightly, to make quite a bit more. That’s okay (as long as your TRUST isn’t in your money and creature comforts and you are VERY, VERY generous to GOD, his CHURCH and to the NEEDY). But a living wage, which ALL employers of full time, primary income employees are obligated by God to pay (whether they think so, agree, or NOT) is a wage which allows the breadwinner(s) to provide a modest living to support himself, a wife, children and provide food, clothing, shelter and educational opportunity for them. It is not some garbage subsistence wage that a billionaire corporation, HUGELY PROFITABLE, “wants” to pay and can get away with paying under our corrupt laws which allow them to do just that, namely, work people half to death and pay them far less than even an individual can live on, while they brag openly about how ENORMOUSLY profitable they are (and I have seen this done with my own eyes and heard it, repeatedly, with my own ears, so don’t anyone dare tell me that I am some kind of Leftist making up stuff. The more they HAVE, these elitists, the LESS they want to pay, and even steal back part of your pay if they can, and I’ve seen them do it and had them do it to me, repeatedly, and it is perfectly legal. It is a SIN which CRIES TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE, but it is perfectly legal. And for the Super Rich to do that to the poor is far more serious than some punk robbing a multibillion dollar bank of several grand. What the punk robber did is horrendous too, but depriving the worker of his or her just, living wage is, according to the Church’s magisterium, a SIN WHICH CRIES TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE. And THAT is not something to sneeze at).
Still, in my experience, it is the LEFTWING “catholics” in public office who are the most blatantly and defiantly and openly APOSTATE from Church doctrine, and whose bishops and priests knowingly let them get away with it. I not long before the death of “Teddy” saw the Archbishop of Washington DC walk in between two notorious proAbort Catholic politicians, who promote sodomy and abortion openly and defiantly, as if they were respectable, honorable, faithful examples of good Catholics, right down the aisle of the Cathedral, like three bosom buddies, right after he had given these wicked behaving men sacrilegious holy communions (they were not then, nor now, repentant for their support of murder and sodomy, so yes their communions were sacrilegious).
Jaypeeto4

Personally, I can see where many people feel they can have certain beliefs and still be Catholic. There are many a Priest and Bishop who are Roman Catholic who don’t agree with Church teachings and many do this quite vocally. If even all of the ‘Shepherds’ of the Church can’t be counted on to uphold the teachings, or to be seen to obviously disagree, then how can others expect any other Catholic - politician or someone in the media who’s Catholic or any other Catholic to also outwardly uphold the teachings? First, I believe the leaders of the Church need to uphold these teachings and believe them - then worry about the flocks.
God Bless Rye

 

[georgemiller]

When it comes to such things as homosexuality and abortion many Catholics including prominent Catholics say I don’t want to become a one issue person relative to voting on moral issues. They should think again because God is often a one issue judge when it comes to a grave matter.

 

[Vasian]

“The Great Apostasy”?

 

[TimothyH]

Isn’t there a confusion between two different thing: marriage as a religious ceremony and civil marriage used by the state.

Churches can make rules for their own religious community in relation to religious ceremonies. A State recognised relationship - civil marriage - should be inclusive for all citizens.

Elected state and federal officials aren’t elected and paid to be a represent one group’s views; they are appointed to represent all citizens. Many of these officials – regardless of their church affiliations – have decided there are no legitimate grounds to deny two people of the same sex the same status as is afforded to a man and a woman through civil marriage. To do so is discrimination.

That sort of discrimination is left to self-governing religious communities if they so wish. Churches should be free to make whatever internal rules they like. Personally though I think the question of gay people and civil marriage will be a non-issue for everyone, including Christian churches, in 25 to 50 years.

No, there is no confusion.

God’s laws are clear, and civil law should be illuminated by God’s law. They are not seperate sets of laws nor are the laws of the state to be made without regard to God’s law. God’s law is not internal to the Church. The laws of physics - created by God - do not exist only in the Church. Gravity does not only work within the Church. And the laws of right and wrong don’t cease to apply when one leaves the Church parking lot.

God created marriage as a sacramant between man, woman and himself. Marriage is a covenant bond between husband, wife and God. That is what marriage is. It was designed that way by God. The laws of the state should never conctradict God’s laws nor his designs.

No, there is no confusion here. We are perfecty sober and keenly aware of exactly what is taking place here. There is zero confusion. Call it a “State recognized relationship” if you want, but all tht does is make it state sanctioned homosexual marriage by another name.

And when a Church calls itself Christian yet sanctions homosexual relationships, it stands in direct disobedience to God and no longer deserves the title “Church of God”

-Tim-

 

[Richard320]

The reason So Many Catholics Who Are Prominent Political Leaders Go Directly Against Clear Statements Of Scripture, the Church And The Papal Authority is:

Original Sin.

The Original Sin was wanting to decide for oneself what is good and what is evil.

[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 3:5[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I take it that if you did read Atlas Shrugged that you possibly missed the significance of that question. I was referencing a work by Ayn Rand, yes, but not for the sake of the author herself, but for the sake of the meaning of that question in the plot. Why ask questions you already have an answer to? Why ask questions to which there are no definite, singular answers that apply across the board? Why can’t we just chalk it up to the American political system as unfortunate as the matter as? What was the point of starting this thread the way it was started (with a loaded question)?

Part of a potential answer to that question is the Church in America herself. You can’t blame Catholics for having been taught poorly decades ago. Why the poor catechesis? Is it because Catholics of America past saw how unwanted they were in a land full of Protestants and in a desperate (and somewhat pathetic attempt to belong) desired to become more WASPy and that’s how we got here? One lost aspect of our unique Catholic identity at a time? We bought into one bill of goods with the left and we’re doing the same delusional things with the right and we’re still not satisfied? It’s so easy to place the blame for our problems…unless the blame is really with us all along. You really have to wonder if the Church in America would be dealing with this right now if we had simply maintained our Catholic identity instead of trying to look more like the row of suburban Americans that didn’t like us to begin with. The main problem isn’t creating legislation with the Catholic conscience in mind. The issue is that American political theory was established with a very progressive, very Protestant, and somewhat anti-Catholic conscience in mind. Catholic orthodoxy and American politics are not as easy to reconcile as many believe it to be somehow. Voting for “the right people” is not going to solve our problems as Catholics trying to live out our faith in this land because NEWSFLASH: there never is a right person either on the right, on the left, or even in the middle.

God bless,

Rob

It was a lame attempt at humor, and yes, I am familiar with both Atlas Shrugged and Rand herself.

I find little to argue with in your post except your statement that “American political theory was established with a very progressive, very Protestant, and somewhat anti-Catholic conscience in mind.” American politics have not always been progressive, of course depending upon how you define that term. But yes, we are in a way, Strangers in a Strange Land, a Protestant-founded nation.

 

[Vasian]

Today on C-Span…

Press Conference
Pelosi: President Obama’s Anti-Catholic Birth Control Decision was ‘Courageous’

QUESTION:

"The administration has issued a regulation that will require all healthcare plans to cover sterilization and all FDA approved contraceptives including those that induce abortions. This will force Catholic individuals and institutions to act against their consciences. All across the nation…”
**
PELOSI:**

“Is this a speech or do we have a question disguised as speech?”
**
QUESTION:**

We cannot and will not comply with this law.

Will you stand with your fellow Catholics in opposing this law?
**
PELOSI:**

I’m going to stand with my fellow Catholics in supporting the administration on this. I think it was a very courageous decision that they made and I support it.