Why do so many Christians love their life in this world?

[Bookcat]

Or, how about just reading Hail Holy Queen, from the Holy Rosary and commenting on it? Are we all not in dire need of salvation while living life in this world?

An ancient and venerable prayer (and chant).

Dire need of salvation?

Those who do not yet know salvation - certainly. Those how have fallen away from grace- certainly.

Those who are living in Christ - are already know salvation…are experiencing salvation…true life in Christ (Rejoice in the Lord always! - again I say Rejoice -St.Paul)…and are looking forward in the certainty of hope of salvation in heaven and later in the Resurrection of the dead…

As St.Catherine put it too - all the way to heaven is heaven …because Christ is the way.

Have been saved…am being saved and… have the certainty of hope of being salved.

Jesus indeed is our hope and our life.

Are we to seek perfection? Certainly.

Now does that call for detachment and indeed renunciation etc? Certainly.

Catechism:

2015 The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle. Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes:

He who climbs never stops going from beginning to beginning, through beginnings that have no end. He never stops desiring what he already knows.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#2015

If so, how can anybody love this life?

How ? cause it is a *gift *from God.

A pilgrimage given to us by God. Where we are to become more and more holy…increasing in love.

……all the way to heaven is heaven …because Christ is the way.

 

[Robert_Sock]

An ancient and venerable prayer (and chant).

Dire need of salvation?

Those who do not yet know salvation - certainly. Those how have fallen away from grace- certainly.

Those who are living in Christ - are already know salvation…are experiencing salvation…true life in Christ (Rejoice in the Lord always! - again I say Rejoice -St.Paul)…and are looking forward in the certainty of hope of salvation in heaven and later in the Resurrection of the dead…

As St.Catherine put it too - all the way to heaven is heaven …because Christ is the way.

Have been saved…am being saved and… have the certainty of hope of being salved.

Jesus indeed is our hope and our life.

Are we to seek perfection? Certainly.

Now does that call for detachment and indeed renunciation etc? Certainly.

Catechism:

2015 The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle. Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes:

He who climbs never stops going from beginning to beginning, through beginnings that have no end. He never stops desiring what he already knows.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#2015

How ? cause it is a *gift *from God.

A pilgrimage given to us by God. Where we are to become more and more holy…increasing in love.

……all the way to heaven is heaven …because Christ is the way.

Deadly disease
Pain and suffering
Killings
Hardships in aging
War
Torture
Robberies and beatings
Death and suffering of loved ones
Poverty, especially in the third world
Hard work
Human trafficking
Hatred
Competition
Sickness
Financial hardship
The basic needs of the body
Caring for the sick and dying
The sin of want
Temptation
Severe mental illnesses

How can anybody love this life where these few examples can affect most of us at any time?

 

[Bookcat]

Deadly disease
Pain and suffering
Killings
Hardships in aging
War
Torture
Robberies and beatings
Death and suffering of loved ones
Poverty, especially in the third world
Hard work
Human trafficking
Hatred
Competition
Sickness
Financial hardship
The basic needs of the body
Caring for the sick and dying
The sin of want
Temptation
Severe mental illnesses

How can anybody love this life where these few examples can affect most of us at any time?

Basically much of what you list there are not about “life” but about sin and the effects of sin. etc.

Now lets start another list…

Knowing Jesus
True Life in Christ
Knowing the Holy Trinity dwelling within
The Church
The Sacred Scriptures
Baptism
Confession
The Eucharist
Confirmation
The other Sacraments
Wife
Husband
Sons
Daughters
Grandchildren
Parents
Friends
Loving others
Helping others
Truth
Beauty
Goodness
Virtues
Travel
Books
Good Food
Art
Music
Pets
Chipmonks
Trees
Mountains
Seas
Coffee

etc

 

[Robert_Sock]

An ancient and venerable prayer (and chant).

Dire need of salvation?

Those who do not yet know salvation - certainly. Those how have fallen away from grace- certainly.

Those who are living in Christ - are already know salvation…are experiencing salvation…true life in Christ (Rejoice in the Lord always! - again I say Rejoice -St.Paul)…and are looking forward in the certainty of hope of salvation in heaven and later in the Resurrection of the dead…

As St.Catherine put it too - all the way to heaven is heaven …because Christ is the way.

Have been saved…am being saved and… have the certainty of hope of being salved.

Jesus indeed is our hope and our life.

Are we to seek perfection? Certainly.

Now does that call for detachment and indeed renunciation etc? Certainly.

Catechism:

2015 The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle. Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes:

He who climbs never stops going from beginning to beginning, through beginnings that have no end. He never stops desiring what he already knows.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#2015

How ? cause it is a *gift *from God.

A pilgrimage given to us by God. Where we are to become more and more holy…increasing in love.

……all the way to heaven is heaven …because Christ is the way.

Where does our living in a valley of tears, being the poor banished children of Eve, and our living this life as exiles come into play?

 

[Bookcat]

Where does our living in a valley of tears, being the poor banished children of Eve, and our living this life as exiles come into play?

Tis part of the pilgrimage as well…there are tears too …there are sufferings (suffering can be part of sanctification)…the sufferings of various crosses are part of things.

And as noted in the that post there you quoted - there are too the crosses we take upon ourselves…mortifications etc. (see the CCC quote there).

 

[LilyM]

Tis part of the pilgrimage as well…there are tears too …there are sufferings (suffering can be part of sanctification)…the sufferings of various crosses are part of things.

And as noted in the that post there you quoted - there are too the crosses we take upon ourselves…mortifications etc. (see the CCC quote there).

Amen! St Paul tells us we are to rejoice even in our sufferings and boast of our crosses, since they are one way to come closer to Christ.

Think of it like a woman giving birth - who accepts the pain and suffering of labour for the gift of the child that it brings with it.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Tis part of the pilgrimage as well…there are tears too …there are sufferings (suffering can be part of sanctification)…the sufferings of various crosses are part of things.

And as noted in the that post there you quoted - there are too the crosses we take upon ourselves…mortifications etc. (see the CCC quote there).

But should we love our life in this world? Yes, we must carry our crosses, even joyfully for some, but loving it?

 

[Bookcat]

But should we love our life in this world? Yes, we must carry our crosses, even joyfully for some, but loving it?

Yes - understood in the right way (see the list I gave earlier…it is wonderful to love our life and the various gifts in our life).

Not in a way that is contrary to the Christian way.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Yes - understood in the right way (see the list I gave earlier…it is wonderful to love our life and the various gifts in our life).

Not in a way that is contrary to the Christian way.

My point is that it’s a perversion to love a life filled with so many evils, even though it offers some a sense of pleasure at times.

 

[Bookcat]

My point is that it’s a perversion to love a life filled with so many evils, even though it offers some a sense of pleasure at times.

No it is not.

One loves the good.

AND one should not *reduce *such to “offers some a sense of pleasure at times.”

 

[adamhovey1988]

would you tell the father and mother of a newborn child that it’s not okay to love their life?

 

[Bookcat]

But should we love our life in this world? ?

Another note

And also we are to “hate” our life in this world (John 12:25).

One understand that this correctly though.

Such does not mean “hate” in the way we might mean the word now.

It is a paradoxical semitic expression.

Used also by Jesus to refer to ones Parents…(Luke 14:26)

“* “To hate” one’s life* is a strong and paradoxical Semitic expression that clearly emphasizes the radical totality which must distinguish those who follow Christ and, out of love for him, put themselves at the service of their brethren. They lose their life and thus find it. There is no other way to experience the joy and the true fruitfulness of Love: the way of giving oneself, of self-giving, of losing oneself in order to find oneself.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090329_magliana_en.html Emp added

this is the *same semitic expression *used regarding ones father…mother …children…(see Luke 14:26 et al)

…it must be understood in this sense.

And such “hate” of ones life in this world - understood in the same sense - is fully compatible with “the rightly ordered love of ones life -given as a gift from God to be lived”.

Just as ones need to “hate” ones father and mother and children - understood as the semitic expression that it is - is fully compatible with the 4th* Commandment* to love ones Father and Mother…

and Jesus’ command is to* love *one another…including Children …whom he singled out himself.

One must understand these kinds of verses carefully and correctly.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Another note

And also we are to “hate” our life in this world (John 12:25).

One understand that this correctly though.

Such does not mean “hate” in the way we might mean the word now.

It is a paradoxical semitic expression.

Used also by Jesus to refer to ones Parents…(Luke 14:26)

“* “To hate” one’s life* is a strong and paradoxical Semitic expression that clearly emphasizes the radical totality which must distinguish those who follow Christ and, out of love for him, put themselves at the service of their brethren. They lose their life and thus find it. There is no other way to experience the joy and the true fruitfulness of Love: the way of giving oneself, of self-giving, of losing oneself in order to find oneself.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090329_magliana_en.html Emp added

this is the *same semitic expression *used regarding ones father…mother …children…(see Luke 14:26 et al)

…it must be understood in this sense.

And such “hate” of ones life in this world - understood in the same sense - is fully compatible with “the rightly ordered love of ones life -given as a gift from God to be lived”.

Just as ones need to “hate” ones father and mother and children - understood as the semitic expression that it is - is fully compatible with the 4th* Commandment* to love ones Father and Mother…

and Jesus’ command is to* love *one another…including Children …whom he singled out himself.

One must understand these kinds of verses carefully and correctly.

I believe your perception of Catholic reality differs sharply from mine, thus everything we have been arguing about is nothing but vanity!

 

[Bookcat]

everything we have been arguing about is nothing but vanity!

No.

I invite you to read again without haste my posts.

 

[LilyM]

Where does our living in a valley of tears, being the poor banished children of Eve, and our living this life as exiles come into play?

The Dalai Lama has been a poor banished child of his homeland of Tibet and exiled from it for something like half a century now.

Clearly he feels deeply about his situation - he has spent every day of that time fighting for his country and to try to go back.

Should he have spent the whole time crying and bellyaching about how awful his life is? What good would that have done him or anyone else? At some point the tears and useless hand wringing need to stop and the action to gain one’s homeland of heaven needs to take place.

 

[jcrichton]

You think it is good to hate your parents? Hate the world?

Hi, Michael!

…quite a conundrum, huh?

…let’s see… the greatest of Commandments is Love Yahweh God Above All; the second, Love your neighbor as yourself…

…but you are required to hate even your own life…

Is that a trick thing?

Consider the fact that when we transgress against God we are actually not Loving God Above All!

…now take the “hate” thing which you so much dislike…

Is the hate thing applied to God?

…and how can a man/woman both Love his neighbor (which would include his/her parents) as him/herself?

…there are only two possibilities:

a) God wants Believers to exist in a dichotomy of mind/body/soul/spirit–both Loving and hating simultaneously, or

b) God wants man/woman to empty him/herself from all attachments, including familiar relations (to be friends with the world means to be in enmity with God).

So “hate” in this very exact usage must mean to not set anything Above God; to remove all hindrance from our relationship with God.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I dont understand this. So if we are happy with our lives and friends and family we are in sin? This is like saying we might as well be happy if there’s a chance we might die (I’ve got cancer! What awesome news!) right? I don’t get it.

Hi!

…have you consider what athletes put themselves through (or even the regular joe/jill) in order to excel in their quest for “perfection?”

…what is the Call for Believers, is it not: “Be Holy?”

…being Holy does not only mean being “pure” or “righteous” but it also means being separated for Yahweh God.

Our “Love” and other interests must place Yahweh God Above All; this means that even in our most intimate relationships with parents, children, spouses, friends… God must be First.

…say a person is healthy, wealthy, and enjoys the best the world has to offer (say the Olsen tweens) and their lives are so full of all the joys of the world that they starve themselves to death and engage in other self-destructive activities… are they truly loving themselves, their parents…? Can they Love God in such acts? …and if they do not change, can they gain Salvation?

…conversely, there’s this woman who at the age of six gave her fiat to God; she lived a randomly poor life… eventually suffered various illnesses and died… throughout her life she Loved God Above All and taught everyone she met to do the same… her departing words were prayers for the Salvation of the world, the souls in Purgatory, and all of her Loved ones… she did not place anything Above God–this means that she hated her life and what the world offered and embraced what God offered… those who knew her intimately called her “Doña” (a title of respect for the honorable and the wealthy, in Spanish speaking countries); her detachment of the world made it possible for her to serve God and the people, in Love and respect, finding joy and fulfillment even in the worst of situations.

…of these two examples, which one do you think Believers should follow, the one that follows the compulsions of the world or the one that follows Christ’s? …in which one do you think that joy and happiness (which includes Loving God, neighbor, and self) is to be found?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I do not know about that. It seems, to me, those who are oppressed, living in fear and hatred are the first people to lose faith in God. I have heard of a woman with Multiple Sclerosis who had lost her faith because she thought that God has given up on her. She thinks that her prayers don’t mean anything anymore. In a thread called “'I don’t believe in anything and I don’t know what to do now.” which was taken down, the young man doesn’t believe in anything because he hates his life.

Life is a gift of God. God died to give us life, why should we not love it?

Hi!

…sadly, may “Christians” have come to believe that there’s a correlation between Faith in God and having wealth, power, health… so they basically base their “Faith” in what they see, demand, expect, get away with… rather than what God has put forth: “I will make them my people, and I will be their God.”

If we live that relationship, we will come to understand that Faith is not dependent upon having God’s ear or getting “special treatment” or having miracles in our lives.

I once was asked to pray for a person who had lapsed into a coma; I prayed that the Holy Spirit would convict that person of the Truth and Salvation… as I read the Bible the person came out of the coma–I was quickly ushered out of the room (the family had to enjoy this miracle)… I was amazed that none thought to thank God for the person’s recovery… Faith is fleeting and empty when all that there is to it is “personal” gain and avoidance of God and our relationship with Him.

…again, “hate” means to detach ourselves from the world… even those in the most of intimate relations would be the cause of our own demise as they would reject God and cause us to fall from Faith… Jesus warned that there would be two together and one would be taken (selected by God) and the other one left behind (rejected); this means that those who do not gather with Christ will scatter. That’s the call for “hating” life and the world–hating that which will keep/pull us away from God.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I have thought about this particular reading myself at times,
I love MY Life because of the many blessings I’v received,
Would it be inappropriate to hate my life when my life has been so rewarding ?
First half of my life had been difficult like that of so many people,
I struggled with so many things,
I worked hard with long hours to get to where I am today,
I give thanks to Jesus for what I have, I give to others where I can,
I’m now traveling the world ,
I’m now incredibly blessed ,
How could I now hate my Life ?

Hi, Phil!

…if your life required you to choose between God and that which you so love and enjoy, what would be your choice (say you needed money and killing me (I’m broke) would gain you millions–someone hatched the perfect murder so you would not get caught nor anyone would be the wiser… your happy life will continue in its merry with wealth to sustain you and yours for years to come… the only catch is that you would chose an unrighteous act to maintain your cheerful and happy life)? Would you hate life and that which is offered and embrace God, even if you lose your “happy, blessed,” life?

Maran atha?

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son to save it. How can we not love, for His sake, such a dearly bought prize?

Life is so precious that we are forbidden to take it except in extreme circumstances. The earth is so precious that God’s first task for Adam was to tend it. As the Psalms say, all creation gives praise to God. How, seing His hand in the wonders of nature and His face and genius in those of our fellow man, can we not love these things?

Hi, Lily!

…the genius of Einstein and others provided the world with atomic power, do we love atomic, hydrogen, ect. bombs?

Maran atha!

Angel