Why do so many Christians love their life in this world?

[jcrichton]

Are you saying that all Catholics and non-Catholic Christians should spend their lives on Earth being miserable???
This is another of your same theme threads where you maintain we should not watch and enjoy movies, not participate in or enjoy watching sports, not watch tv, not enjoy holidays with the family etc etc etc.
Do not tell us what we should be doing.

Hi!

…cars are beautiful things to drive… killing people for cars is not a loving thing; hurting or killing people because they took a parking space or jumped in front of your car in the road, crashed onto your car/property, or even killed someone in a stupid accident, is any of that a “loving thing?”

…what about beating those who cheer against your “favorite sport’s team,” is that a loving thing?

…and are we “loving” when we neglect our family or God to get the most appealing entertainment?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I’m healthy, have a good job, and live in a First World country with indoor plumbing - what’s not to love?

Hi!

…say, (God forbid) tomorrow you lose your job, your kids (if you have them) become dolts who rather text than learn and your best friend rips you off; you go to the doctor for a check up and find out you have no insurance… do you hate God for things going wrong?

…say everything go fantastically well; you gain more of everything… do you still need/believe in God?

I remember a story (can’t quite place it) where a man was granted wishes by a genie with the caveat that his worst enemy would get twice what he would be granted–in order to “get” his enemy he wished for things that would hurt him (loss of an eye, leg, hand…) so that his enemy would suffer twice as bad… this anecdote simply exemplifies man’s determination to seek the worst of things instead of the best of things–Christ wants man to hate this world (detach himself from this world) so that he could gain Salvation.

…yet, see how many “Believers” have a problem with Christ?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

The Imitation of Christ is not an authoritative guidebook binding on everyone in the church. The only authoritative guide that Catholics must follow is the Magisterium.

Thomas A Kempis was a member of the Brethren of the Common Life, a group founded by followers of William of Ockham, who was excommunicated and never recanted, and whose nominalist philosophy may have done more damage to the church than anyone since Peter Abelard. I’m not saying Kempis is a heretic or his book has no value, but we need to keep everything in context and above all, trust and obey the Magisterium.

Hi!

…could you base line it for me? What was his philosophy?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Satan has successfully seduced many christians today into living for the world instead of for God. Its why many christians will put their secular lives ahead of their religious beliefs, even if the two contradict each other, they will either try to find something to justify continuing doing what they like and enjoy or just say revert back to ‘just doing what everyone else is’. I can honestly say many of christians I know personally would never put their secular quality of life at risk in defense of their beliefs, I have talked to many of my friends about this, its staggering how many put mans laws first.

Jesus told us the world would hate us, would persecute us, etc…funny though, I do not see any of that going on around here, the secular community seems to love the churches here…that is a good indicator that something is very wrong imo.

Hi, Mike!

…this is exactly the meaning of the term “hate.”

…we are Commanded to “hate” that which leads/keeps us away from God–sometimes that would be material things; yet, sometimes that would be our personal relationships.

I concur with you… the more that the Church embraces the world (as divorce, contraception, abortion, default excuses for “ignorance” of God’s Commands…) the further from God she gets. As Scriptures tells us we cannot enjoy friendship with the world without finding ourselves at enmity with God!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[LilyM]

Hi, Lily!

…the genius of Einstein and others provided the world with atomic power, do we love atomic, hydrogen, ect. bombs?

Maran atha!

Angel

Of course we can lament, as Einstein himself did, the misuse of nuclear technology for evil purposes, without tarring either him or the entirety of his God-given genius with one and the same brush of being evil and despicable.

Remember the purpose of the tree of which Adam ate? It was to provide knowledge of good as well as evil.

If all we see around us when we look appears to be evil, then it seems to me that we fail to rightly discern the hand and image (albeit a dimmed image) of the Creator in the creation.

 

[jcrichton]

The Christians life here - is a Pilgrimage. Towards Heaven and the Resurrection and the new heavens and new earth…

We are “citizens” of Heaven as it where - sojourners here on this pilgrimage.

But valuing life in this world - the good that God created and gives us -in an ordered way - is part of Christian life. Such is not in direct opposition to God.

We receive the good things God has given us in the world - with* thanksgiving *(as Paul reminds us).

We receive “with thanksgiving” the goods given us by God. To make use of creation in an ordered way. Its not our last end -this is not our home. We are pilgrims on the way to our lasting home.

Hi!

I concur!

It is Loving the world in God–in this relationship we do not allow ourselves to be separated from God:

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(Romans 8:37-39)

…the problem is that the line blurs as “Believers” embrace everything in the world and attempt to justify it in “Love.”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Deadly disease
Pain and suffering
Killings
Hardships in aging
War
Torture
Robberies and beatings
Death and suffering of loved ones
Poverty, especially in the third world
Hard work
Human trafficking
Hatred
Competition
Sickness
Financial hardship
The basic needs of the body
Caring for the sick and dying
The sin of want
Temptation
Severe mental illnesses

How can anybody love this life where these few examples can affect most of us at any time?

Hi, Robert!

…I think that you are taking this waaaay far from the true meaning… even in all those things that you’ve cited above we can find the means to Love God and our life.

The Call is to “hate” that which separates/pulls/takes us away from God.

…to one person/family wealth could be the instrument of separation; so they must hate the wealth; to another person/family poor health/poverty/bad situation may be the cause to be pulled/separated from God–that person/family must “hate” that element which keeps them from God.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

would you tell the father and mother of a newborn child that it’s not okay to love their life?

Hi, Adam!

…again, it’s about that which separates/keeps us from God.

…if that father and mother are not living in the Sacrament of Matrimony, they would undoubtedly set a bad example for their child/ren–they would most certainly not teach them about God’s Commandments (not just the top 10); they would most likely lead their offspring astray (away from God).

They must “hate” their life and seek it in Jesus!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I believe your perception of Catholic reality differs sharply from mine, thus everything we have been arguing about is nothing but vanity!

Hi, Robert!

…I hope you read through my posts–“hate” and “love” are compatible: “hate” that which keeps/separates us from God; Love God Above All and neighbor as self–one goes with the other!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Of course we can lament, as Einstein himself did, the misuse of nuclear technology for evil purposes, without tarring either him or the entirety of his God-given genius with one and the same brush of being evil and despicable.

Remember the purpose of the tree of which Adam ate? It was to provide knowledge of good as well as evil.

If all we see around us when we look appears to be evil, then it seems to me that we fail to rightly discern the hand and image (albeit a dimmed image) of the Creator in the creation.

Hi, Lily!

…I just wanted to emphasize that “love” does not mean embrace everything in the world; “hate” does not mean reject everything in Creation… God gave His revelation of the sciences to man; man discovers and creates both good and evil with what God has revealed; yet, even those “good” things in the world must be “hated” if they pull/keep us away from God.

Knowledge is a good thing; yet, knowledge can be an instrument of evil (Adam and Eve got first taste of that). So we must “hate” that which separates/keeps us from God, whether it be a thing or a person.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

Hi, Phil!

…if your life required you to choose between God and that which you so love and enjoy, what would be your choice (say you needed money and killing me (I’m broke) would gain you millions–someone hatched the perfect murder so you would not get caught nor anyone would be the wiser… your happy life will continue in its merry with wealth to sustain you and yours for years to come… the only catch is that you would chose an unrighteous act to maintain your cheerful and happy life)? Would you hate life and that which is offered and embrace God, even if you lose your “happy, blessed,” life?

Maran atha?

Angel

I think you misinterpret what I said,
I give Praise to Jesus for all the blessings I have,
I give what I can to anyone I believe deserves help,
My interpretation of who needs help most may differ from yours,
The other Day while walking around Vancouver a well dressed man was asking for money to buy subway,I ignored him , I saw a young man begging for money, he looked like a drug addict , I had lunch in a very average restaurant , a young lady was working to support herself and study to better herself, I Gave her $50.oo to help her,
I give what I can to whoever I feel deserves it ,
Yes I am Blessed, I appreciate what I have , I had worked 12 hour days you years ,
Now I share my blessing with whom I Chose ,I feel I am doing good, I seek no praise ,

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

is it possible to over interpret the Bible, turning each individual word around so we lose Sight of its real meaning ?

Matthew 5.5    Blessed are the Meek for they shall inherit the Earth

I like to keep it simple

 

[Rosebud77]

It would be a total absurdity to take all the quotes I provided and reinterpret them into a rosy view of our life in this world which everyone knows full well contains so much evil. Yes, our world contains good as well, but good so heavily tainted with evil, is evil!

No it is not. Why always look on the dark side? Always.

I enjoy so many things in this glorious creation, here in the lovely part of Ireland, i see daily the lovingkindness of the Lord, smile my thanks when I drive along remote mountain roads.

His love. His power.

Nurturing and inspiring and comforting us. To live and love for Him.

Depression is a dreadful thing, Robert. taints everything. darkens the sunshine.

 

[Rosebud77]

Satan has successfully seduced many christians today into living for the world instead of for God. Its why many christians will put their secular lives ahead of their religious beliefs, even if the two contradict each other, they will either try to find something to justify continuing doing what they like and enjoy or just say revert back to ‘just doing what everyone else is’. I can honestly say many of christians I know personally would never put their secular quality of life at risk in defense of their beliefs, I have talked to many of my friends about this, its staggering how many put mans laws first.

Jesus told us the world would hate us, would persecute us, etc…funny though, I do not see any of that going on around here, the secular community seems to love the churches here…that is a good indicator that something is very wrong imo.

I have recently been persecuted in a very real way for aspects of my faith, Hurting through and through right now. Bruised and battered

And no way will I live for the world. I enjoy the world greatly at my very limited and simple, frugal way, but God comes first.

 

[Rosebud77]

So much darkness in this thread… Shudders… going outside to walk in the Light…

Darkness begets darkness and depression and I will have none of it

 

[Robert_Sock]

So much darkness in this thread… Shudders… going outside to walk in the Light…

Darkness begets darkness and depression and I will have none of it

Again, I strongly feel that we should feel great joy and pleasure towards Heaven, but not our life in this world.

 

[Bookcat]

"What the Lord says of himself here in this Christological parable is applied to us in two other verses: “He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life” (v. 25).

I think that when we first hear this we do not like it. We would like to say to the Lord: “But what are you telling us, Lord? Must we even hate our life? Isn’t our life a gift of God? Haven’t we been created in his image and likeness? Shouldn’t we be grateful and glad that he has given us life?”. However, Jesus’ words have another meaning.

Of course the Lord has given us life and we are grateful for this. Gratitude and joy are fundamental attitudes of Christian life.

Yes, we can be happy because we know that each of our lives comes from God. It is not a chance without meaning. I am wanted and loved. When Jesus says we must hate our life he means quite the opposite."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

For the rest:

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/speeches/2010/march/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20100314_christuskirche.html

“* “To hate” one’s life* is a strong and paradoxical Semitic expression that clearly emphasizes the radical totality which must distinguish those who follow Christ and, out of love for him, put themselves at the service of their brethren. They lose their life and thus find it. There is no other way to experience the joy and the true fruitfulness of Love: the way of giving oneself, of self-giving, of losing oneself in order to find oneself.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090329_magliana_en.html Emp added

this is the *same semitic expression *used regarding ones father…mother …children…(see Luke 14:26 et al)…and we know rather well we are to in fact love our Mother and Father and Children…

What we are to do - is Love God above all - and desire heaven and the Resurrection above the joys of life here that God gives us…

…as the Creed says we “look forward to the resurrection”.

 

[PluniaZ]

Again, I strongly feel that we should feel great joy and pleasure towards Heaven, but not our life in this world.

The monastic life sounds appropriate then.

But it’s not for everyone.

 

[TechieGuy]

Wow, you are one gloomy fellow, eh?

Life is good and the world is filled with good things for Man to enjoy!

Hi!

…say, (God forbid) tomorrow you lose your job, your kids (if you have them) become dolts who rather text than learn and your best friend rips you off; you go to the doctor for a check up and find out you have no insurance… do you hate God for things going wrong?

…say everything go fantastically well; you gain more of everything… do you still need/believe in God?

I remember a story (can’t quite place it) where a man was granted wishes by a genie with the caveat that his worst enemy would get twice what he would be granted–in order to “get” his enemy he wished for things that would hurt him (loss of an eye, leg, hand…) so that his enemy would suffer twice as bad… this anecdote simply exemplifies man’s determination to seek the worst of things instead of the best of things–Christ wants man to hate this world (detach himself from this world) so that he could gain Salvation.

…yet, see how many “Believers” have a problem with Christ?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Wesrock]

I have been reading the *Imitation of Christ *as a devotional the past few weeks, and I must say some of the messages about attachment to worldly things and in seeking salvation through knowledge, of which the book speaks against, have really hit home with me with where I’ve been in my life recently. This, if to be of any value, must be read in accordance with the Church’s teachings. The world is not evil.

But it is possible to be too attached to it (the pleasures, the money, the job, the pride, the friends), to put it before Christ and Christian living, and I’m glad to have that reminder. Not that those things are intrinsically bad in themselves, but we cannot compromise our Christian values for them. I was tempted recently to tell a white lie in a job interview for a “tell me about a time…” question, not just stretch or sell myself a little, but to outright fabricate a scenario. Harmless, right? Just something to talk about… But that’s putting my career before being Christian. Imitation is actually what spoke to me and prevented me from doing that.

I digress. A helpful book, and while reading it I also recall Saint Augustine’s Confessions and wonder if, as a whole, we could use a little more asceticism in our lives in our consumerist world. That said, I’ll try and focus plucking the plank out of my own eye; to enjoy the world, but not compromise my relationship with Christ for it.