Why Do So Many Government Programs Fail?

[LeafByNiggle]

Why Social Security is welfare, by Robert J. Samuelson: …Here is how I define a welfare program: First, it taxes one group to support another group, meaning it’s pay-as-you-go and not a contributory scheme where people’s own savings pay their later benefits. And second, Congress can constantly alter benefits, reflecting changing needs, economic conditions and politics. Social Security qualifies on both counts.
I can assure you that payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare are taxes, **not **an insurance premium.

I have never seen anywhere in the definition of insurance that it must be a system where “people’s own savings pay their later benefits”. In fact most insurance programs are not of that sort. If you buy homeowner’s insurance and then your house burns down the very next week, then it is not your own savings that pays the claim for you. It is previous participants in the insurance program. And that is normal and expected. If you want to distinguish between social security and insurance you will have to pick some other characteristic. Similarly for “taxes one group to support another group”. If you consider the group of people whose houses have burned and the other group of people whose houses have not burned down, clearly one group is paying for the other group. So you will have to do better than that.

 

[sedonaman]

Hmmm, thats sort of the way Insurance operates. Coincidence? There is no such thing.

ATB

If commercial life insurance worked that way, no one would buy it. Perhaps the mandatory character of SS is to keep people from opting out. If it was such a deal, there would be no need to make it mandatory, and people wouldn’t want to opt out.

But why do so many government programs fail? How about brilliant ideas like zero down, zero-interest, zero-payment 30-year “loans”? americanthinker.com/2012/05/hoarding_tax_dollars.html

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“Nø, they can’t.”

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Why Social Security is welfare, by Robert J. Samuelson: …Here is how I define a welfare program: First, it taxes one group to support another group, meaning it’s pay-as-you-go and not a contributory scheme where people’s own savings pay their later benefits. And second, Congress can constantly alter benefits, reflecting changing needs, economic conditions and politics. Social Security qualifies on both counts.
I can assure you that payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare are taxes, **not **an insurance premium.

SSI draws funds from those who can benefit from it. I don’t pay now, and do not expect to collect for the time I didn’t pay. (Just like insurance.) So, technically Samuelson is wrong. But then, he’s writing for a particular clientele isn’t he.

Welfare refers to a broad discourse which may hold certain implications regarding the provision of a minimal level of wellbeing and social support for all citizens. Whats wrong with this exactly?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

If commercial life insurance worked that way, no one would buy it. Perhaps the mandatory character of SS is to keep people from opting out. If it was such a deal, there would be no need to make it mandatory, and people wouldn’t want to opt out

As I said before, if you want to claim that social security is a poor insurance program, then you should do that. But it certainly does qualify as a kind of insurance.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

If commercial life insurance worked that way, no one would buy it. Perhaps the mandatory character of SS is to keep people from opting out. If it was such a deal, there would be no need to make it mandatory, and people wouldn’t want to opt out.

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“Nø, they can’t.”

Interesting that you feel you can speak for everyone ie “no body would”. The problem seems to be, that you don’t want to pay your fair share. Too bad.

 

[ACCT]

Not only do government socialist programs, like Social Security and Medicare fail, governments fail because of socialism. Look at what is happening in Europe today:

Spaniards withdrew $1.27 billion in cash from one of the country’s largest banks over the past week, while in Greece, more than $1 billion was withdrawn from banks on Monday alone!

If that’s not a banking panic. I don’t know what is. Thing is,* it’s about to spread throughout Europe. **

There’s Portugal, which is about to plummet again, still reeling under the weight of an unpayable debt load. There’s Italy, one of the most indebted countries in all of Europe, whose economy is also sinking anew.

And then there’s France, whose economy is stalling and where** the new socialist government promises to make France’s debt problems all that much worse with even more insane spending.**

Bank runs are awfully difficult to stop. Especially in today’s digital age, where you can move your money with a few clicks of a mouse. So I wouldn’t be surprised if we see** bank runs soon hit other countries in Europe**.* - Larry Edelson

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Not only do government socialist programs, like Social Security and Medicare fail, governments fail because of socialism. Look at what is happening in Europe today:

Spaniards withdrew $1.27 billion in cash from one of the country’s largest banks over the past week, while in Greece, more than $1 billion was withdrawn from banks on Monday alone!

If that’s not a banking panic. I don’t know what is. Thing is,** it’s about to spread throughout Europe. **

There’s Portugal, which is about to plummet again, still reeling under the weight of an unpayable debt load. There’s Italy, one of the most indebted countries in all of Europe, whose economy is also sinking anew.

And then there’s France, whose economy is stalling and where** the new socialist government promises to make France’s debt problems all that much worse with even more insane spending.**

Bank runs are awfully difficult to stop. Especially in today’s digital age, where you can move your money with a few clicks of a mouse. So I wouldn’t be surprised if we see** bank runs soon hit other countries in Europe**. - Larry Edelson

Notice how the more liberal and/or Christian Democratic countries such as Switzerland (albeit small) and Germany aren’t part of the mess.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Not only do government sicialist programs, like Social Security and Medicare fail, governments fail because of socialism. Look at what is happening in Europe today:

Spaniards withdrew $1.27 billion in cash from one of the country’s largest banks over the past week, while in Greece, more than $1 billion was withdrawn from banks on Monday alone!

If that’s not a banking panic. I don’t know what is. Thing is,** it’s about to spread throughout Europe. **

There’s Portugal, which is about to plummet again, still reeling under the weight of an unpayable debt load. There’s Italy, one of the most indebted countries in all of Europe, whose economy is also sinking anew.

And then there’s France, whose economy is stalling and where** the new socialist government promises to make France’s debt problems all that much worse with even more insane spending.**

Bank runs are awfully difficult to stop. Especially in today’s digital age, where you can move your money with a few clicks of a mouse. So I wouldn’t be surprised if we see bank runs soon hit other countries in Europe. - Larry Edelson

Sounds like the EU, and IMF should not have drawn the line where they did. They totally mishandled the situation.

 

[sedonaman]

As I said before, if you want to claim that social security is a poor insurance program, then you should do that. But it certainly does qualify as a kind of insurance.

Whatever you say, pal.

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Leftists think that utopia can be coerced into existence – so no dishonesty or brutality is beyond them in pursuit of that “noble” goal. – Dr. Jon Jay Ray

 

[ACCT]

As I said before, if you want to claim that social security is a poor insurance program, then you should do that. But it certainly does qualify as a kind of insurance.

That is a very, very** broad definition **of insurance!

 

[ACCT]

Sounds like the EU, and IMF should not have drawn the line where they did. They totally mishandled the situation.

The United States also has “mishandled the situation.” In the long run, it means lots more inflation. Possibly even hyperinflation in the western economies. The inevitable inflation is coming!

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Notice how the more liberal and/or Christian Democratic countries such as Switzerland (albeit small) and Germany aren’t part of the mess.

Swiss guy. The Germans, (would we call them christians?) were attempting to position themselves as the big dog in the EU. I guess Europe has a longer memory than they thought. If I was Stalin, Churchill, or Roosevelt, at the Yalta conference. There wouldn’t even be a Germany today. Twice in one century? Enough.

ATB

 

[Mickey_Finn]

The United States also has “mishandled the situation.” In the long run, it means lots more inflation. Possibly even hyperinflation in the western economies. The inevitable inflation is coming!

We’ve been recieving warnings about this inflation for sometime now. Inflation always shows up sooner or later.

WE prevented a run on the banks which would have dragged the whole worlds economy over into the abyss. I’d call that a victory, wouldn’t you?

I love you Brother.

ATB

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I know what I know about Social Security based upon a graduate course in economics. Additionally, I did not make the highest grades in economics, statistics, accounting, etc. by misunderstanding the statistics in the text book.

That sort of an argument doesn’t fly in a debate. You can’t just say “take my word for it because I am smarter than you.”

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Swiss guy. The Germans, (would we call them christians?) were attempting to position themselves as the big dog in the EU. I guess Europe has a longer memory than they thought. If I was Stalin, Churchill, or Roosevelt, at the Yalta conference. There wouldn’t even be a Germany today. Twice in one century? Enough.

ATB

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Swiss guy. The Germans, (would we call them christians?) were attempting to position themselves as the big dog in the EU. I guess Europe has a longer memory than they thought. If I was Stalin, Churchill, or Roosevelt, at the Yalta conference. There wouldn’t even be a Germany today. Twice in one century? Enough.

ATB

So you think Germany is trying to take over the world? And although much of Germany is now secular because of communism, Catholics in west Germany helped shape much of what Germany is like now economically.

 

[ACCT]

We’ve been recieving warnings about this inflation for sometime now. Inflation always shows up sooner or later.

WE prevented a run on the banks which would have dragged the whole worlds economy over into the abyss. I’d call that a victory, wouldn’t you?

I love you Brother.

ATB

Inflation, even hyperinflation, is baked into the cake. The Fed did not solve the banking crisis We just kicked the can down the street.

*Every time the U.S economy starts to waver, or its debts come into question, or asset prices star to fall — the Federal Reserve will have no choice but to engage in reflationary schemes, because it’s now caught in a vicious circle.

If it doesn’t support asset prices and reflate, then the government’s towering inferno of debts and obligations will come crashing down — and we would have a deflationary depression that would make the 1930’s look like a walk in the park.

A few years from now we will see the final outcome of this grand fight. There will be no victor, only the wreckage of a monetary system based on debt and credit that no longer works. And in the end, a new monetary system will be needed. One that relies far less on debt and credit, and one that requires a new international currency reserve.* - Larry Edelson

 

[ACCT]

I will remain short-term bullish the U.S. dollar. The dollar is benefitting right now from a flight of capital out of Europe, and from disinflation. However, keep in mind that long term, the U.S. dollar is toast.* I expect it to lose as much as 50% of its value **over the next few years. I also expect that the dollar will **lose its status as the world’s main reserve currency *in the not-too-distant future. - Larry Edelson

Friends, get as far away from this doomed economy as possible!

 

[ACCT]

That sort of an argument doesn’t fly in a debate. You can’t just say “take my word for it because I am smarter than you.”

I am not interested in inane debates.

 

[ACCT]

Friends, it is time for me to end contributing to this thread. I am not interested in pushing anyone to believe something that they do not want to believe.

Everyone has their line drawn in the sand. Most of us have to learn the hard way. Those of us who do not listen will have to feel.

God gave us all a free will. I respect that.