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AFerri48
Guest
How do you enforce a law if there is no punishment?
Why do so many in the pro-life movement want no punishment for women if abortion was illegal?
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casslean
Guest
Because we recognize that many women who choose and seek abortions are facing incredibly difficult personal circumstances, and that the means to assist those people isn’t through punishment, but rather by offering a helping hand. It’s the same mentality that says that you don’t punish a starving child who steals just so they won’t starve.
while I truly do not believe that criminalizing abortion would help the pro-life movement, it is possible to have a law against abortion and not punish women; you punish the people providing the abortions. If there is a disincentive to perform the procedure, the rates drop off.
But again, criminalization is not the answer. The answer lies in changing society’s mindset to stop pathologizing pregnancy, to not devalue life merely because it is unborn, and to place greater emphasis on supporting women with unplanned pregnancies to let them make the best choices for them AND their child.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/should-a-woman-be-punished-for-having-an-abortion
This should help answer the question. In legal terms it comes down to intent and state of mind.
This should help answer the question. In legal terms it comes down to intent and state of mind.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
We can legislate morality from the top-down, dust off our hands and call it good.
Good to see you on here again!
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Wampa
Guest
I think there’s a rough parallel to prostitution, where pimps are bad actors all of the time but prostitutes are often victims (especially underage girls forced into sex trafficking). The criminal justice system has been increasingly recognizing this in recent years and treating them as victims rather than offenders.
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BornInMarch
Guest
I think that women who willfully get an abortion SHOULD be punished; if they are allowed to go free then we dishonor the victim of her murder, and we send the message that we don’t really consider the child to be a living thing.
As for why many don’t want women to go to jail for child-murder, there could be a number of reasons. It could be cynicism (they don’t really believe that unborn babies are worth protecting, or that abortion is murder, and just hate the idea of sex not resulting in burdensome responsibility), it could be pessimism (they’ve given up on making abortion illegal, and have lowered their long term goals), it could be reflexive (pro-abortion people often unfairly accuse anti-abortion people of being “anti-choice” or “anti-woman” or “woman-haters” so some anti-abortion people don’t want to give their opposition the chance to make such accusations), or it could be something else.
But if abortion is murder, than there is no good reason to let an accomplice to murder go free. It would be like pardoning Amelia Dyre.
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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
Interesting example.
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pnewton
Guest
Easy. Close clinics. Seek censure of doctors that perform them. There are other ways, civil ways of enforcing a law without criminal punishment. I know Americans, (and Kim Jong Un) don’t want to hear this, but locking people up by the millions is not the only way to run a country.
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BornInMarch
Guest
Most of those people are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses (because of the War on Drugs) or are kept in prison long after their debt to society has been paid off (because of Mandatory Minimums and a political system that encourages politicians to be “tough on crime” while punishing politicians who try to encourage rehabilitation).
However, someone who commits a heinous crime (such as, say, murdering one’s own child) deserves to be in prison and is too dangerous to be left on the outside. It there’s no room in the prison for the child-killer, than make room by transferring the heroin addict to a facility geared towards curing addictions.
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pnewton
Guest
For me to believe this, I would need to see some correlation between women who have had an abortion and other crime that justifies the statement, “too dangerous to be left on the outside.”
If there is ever any chance of making abortion illegal, harsh punishment will poison the well and end that chance.
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MaryT777
Guest
This is so well said. I know three persons who had an abortion in high school and college:
1: D was afraid her parents would disown her junior year of high school. They had already disowned age child 18 who dated a man who was the “wrong color.”
2: J had a brother who had committed suicide in college freshman year and were never the same. She said the shame she thought she would bring upon them for being pregnant in a Catholic school would be too much for them to bear. She didn’t want to be a huge disappointment.
- J. D. had an abortion because the guy that got her pregnant years ago said F You.
You must have set me up you bleep bleep. She was not a Church goer and knew she’d have no support from family and felt desperate and a alone.
Locking up women who had abortions is not the way to go. Finding ways to bring charges against those that provide abortions in the way to go in my opinion.
May we work together to promote life.
Mary.
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MaryT777
Guest
What punishment do you feel would be appropriate for women who willingly get an abortion?
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RPRPsych
Guest
Questions like the one in the OP are merely a “dog whistle” for “boo, the pro-life movement stinks, let’s all be pro-choice and abort ourselves into oblivion.”
In other words: don’t rise to the bait.
In other words: don’t rise to the bait.
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Simeon_Hovey
Guest
Because the lord said, “Vengeance is mine.” Simeon
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casslean
Guest
What about all the people around the mother who force her into that situation? It’s women who have to deal with unplanned pregnancies, but I can promise you there was a man involved in getting her in that state. Does he get tried? If he knew she was pregnant and refused to support her, forcing her to feel abortion was her only choice, is he an accomplice? Or perhaps a co-conspirator? If her parents threatened to disown her or throw her out if she ever got pregnant, are they to be held liable?
Punishing women obscurs the complexity of relationships and interactions that go into a woman’s decision. If you are going to inspire change it isn’t by introducing more fear. It’s by ensuring women know that there will be a place of love and support for them, no matter what.
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midori
Guest
For every one person who uses it as birth control, there are probably ten or twenty or a hundred who take that path out of fear.
It makes more sense to crack down on those who choose to profit from others’ fear.
It makes more sense to crack down on those who choose to profit from others’ fear.
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Garyjohn2
Guest
Punishing these women would be kind of like punishing people who attempt suicide. They need help more than prison time.
Then again, fines may be more effective. If they are aborting due to real or perceived poverty, the risk of a hefty fine may deter them.
Then again, fines may be more effective. If they are aborting due to real or perceived poverty, the risk of a hefty fine may deter them.
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Sarcelle
Guest
What punishment do you suggest? Incarceration or the death penalty? It is after murder in the first which qualifies for the death penalty.
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BornInMarch
Guest
The same punishment you would expect for anyone else who murders their child. A long imprisonment and the label of “murder” on their criminal record after/if they ever get released.
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BornInMarch
Guest
Abortion is murder. If a woman pays someone to kill her 6 year old child then NOBODY would be arguing that “Oh she needs support, not punishment!” or “Punish the guy she hired but let her go free!”.
That’s the pessimism I talked about. You have to remember that justice is a process, not a race with a finish line. Can you really predict the public view on abortion in 100 years? Or 200 years? Have a bit more hope.
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