Why do so many non-Catholic Christian “Protestants” - Reject the term “Protestant”?

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The word “protesting”, as used here in the context of Christian history, is not the same as “protesting”, as used in ordinary conversation today. “Protesting” here, is used to describe those Christians, who “disagree” with Catholicism. It is bad enough, that people would like to re-write Christian history and leave out the “Catholic parts”, but now it appears that there are some who would like to redefine words as well, to match their own re-invention of Christianity. Isn’t this what is really going on here with all the hoop-la over the word “protestant”?

Peace
 
Jimmy,

Would you share with us which of the 95 theses were heretical at the time they were written, understanding that they constituted a list of points for discussion and debate, or, if you contend that they were something more than a list of items for debate could you share with us why you believe this to be the case?

For your convenience, you may refamiliarize yourself with them here.
 
Jimmy,

Everything would be so much simpler for you if your screed were actually true. Unfortunately the truth is much more complicated.

A Protestant, originally, was one of those princes who protested the conclusions of the second Diet of Speyer which had to do with further reformation in imperial lands and represented a rejection of what amount to political and geographic losses for the Lutheran princes.

By extension, and as a matter of common parlance, it refers to any of those churches or members of those churches descended from the reformation.

The word, really, has no reference at all to the Pope or Catholicism except historically and then only by a rather tortured extension.

Neither the Pope nor Catholicism are the direct objects of the protestation indicated by the term in either sense.

But I don’t expect any of this to sink in. I fully expect your attachment to garish polemical caricature to trump any access you might have to fact.

I will be anxiously waiting to see how long it takes you to repeat this fallacy even though you have been instructed otherwise.

When I see it, I will ring a bell and reference this post.
 
Steadfast said:
Jimmy,

Would you share with us which of the 95 theses were heretical at the time they were written, understanding that they constituted a list of points for discussion and debate, or, if you contend that they were something more than a list of items for debate could you share with us why you believe this to be the case?

For your convenience, you may refamiliarize yourself with them here.
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Please go back and read my posts, I never stated that. I was responding to a quote from someone else, why don’t you ask them? :whacky:
 
Steadfast said:
For your convenience, you may refamiliarize yourself with them here.
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Thank you, but I already have a copy of Luther’s excessive ramblings on my computer’. One read of his 95 Thesis and “I get it” …“indulgences”…”I get it already”…. How many different ways can someone repeat the same complaint?….about 95 different ways…😃
 
Steadfast said:
See your post 76 which is all ********.
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I didn’t drop the H-bomb in post number 76…:ehh:

Some, non-Catholic Christians, which followed Reformation, hate the “H” word, even more than the "P’ word…😃

A “Protestant” friend here, forced me to repeat the “H” word…I didn’t really want to… 😛

Peace 🙂
 
Prot·es·tant http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png
ˈprɒthttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngstənt or, for 4, 6, prəˈtɛshttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngtənt
Pronunciationprot-uh-stuhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngnt or, for 4, 6, pruh-tes-tuhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngnt]
–noun
**1.any Western Christian who is not an adherent of a Catholic, Anglican, or Eastern Church.
2.an adherent of any of those Christian bodies that separated from the Church of Rome during the Reformation, or of any group descended from them. **
3.(originally) any of the German princes who protested against the decision of the Diet of Speyer in 1529, which had denounced the Reformation. 4.(lowercasehttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) a person who protests.
–adjective
5.belonging or pertaining to Protestants or their religion.
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Regardless of the term’s origins, the fact remains that “Protestant” is the long-accepted term for most varieties of non-Catholic western Christians. You can argue semantics all you want, but the correct term is and remains “Protestant.”
 
Jimmy_B said:
Hello again gcnuss,

"an invitation to debate"

That’s a new one…:rolleyes:

So… the next time I want to “invite someone to a debate”, I will make sure to bring a hammer and a nail …So that I can nail my "Points’ to their front door…😃

Luther was protesting… The 95 Thesis wasn’t the only thing that he wrote but you knew that. Christians today, who are descendants of the “first protesters”, are still protesting. They are protesting or rejecting Catholic beliefs, which are early Christian beliefs. They are “protesting” in their beliefs and by their actions.

Christians today didn’t create a new religion; they made changes to an old one, the Catholic Church, by rejecting Catholicism and protesting aspects of Catholicism.

If you want, I will petition the rest of the world to change the name to, “Rejecters of Catholicism” but that doesn’t have the same ring to it…😃

We need to figure something out, because I can’t possible remember all of the different names of every denomination. I think I’ll stick with, non-Catholic “Protestants” Christian, or simply “Protestant”; it’s much easier to type…😉

I hope this helps…🙂
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gcnus is right. The catholic church can write it’s own history as it best suits them. Peter was given the keys to the Kingdome and (some) of those who came later did wrong. There was then and is today an abuse of power. The Catholic (universal) church today is not the same exact church it was 2000 years ago. Just because there is a line to peter does not mean that everything done since then was as Jesus would have done. It is in some cases(not all) what the pope at the time thought Jesus would have done. Or rather passed of as what Jesus would have done. If someone diagrees remind them the pope is infaliable and define those who disagree as heritics. Martin Luther saw this abuse as a catholic priest and stood up and spoke out. who is to say that there was no abuse at the time and that Luther was right. None of us were there. So we believe what others tells us History is passed down. Sometimes in life certain things are left out of history if our history puts us in a bad light. 500 years later we can still define those who disagree as heritics. Are they Heritics or is our history as we define it the heritic.
 
catholiconce said:
gcnus is right. The catholic church can write it’s own history as it best suits them. Peter was given the keys to the Kingdome and (some) of those who came later did wrong. There was then and is today an abuse of power. The Catholic (universal) church today is not the same exact church it was 2000 years ago. Just because there is a line to peter does not mean that everything done since then was as Jesus would have done. It is in some cases(not all) what the pope at the time thought Jesus would have done. Or rather passed of as what Jesus would have done. If someone diagrees remind them the pope is infaliable and define those who disagree as heritics. Martin Luther saw this abuse as a catholic priest and stood up and spoke out. who is to say that there was no abuse at the time and that Luther was right. None of us were there. So we believe what others tells us History is passed down. Sometimes in life certain things are left out of history if our history puts us in a bad light. 500 years later we can still define those who disagree as heritics. Are they Heritics or is our history as we define it the heritic.
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Reformation within the Catholic Church, started well before Martin Luther’s 95 Thesis. I refuse to accept the “romantic” or “illustrious” view of a man who was Excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church and who was a heretic and became an enemy of Catholicism. Martin Luther, directly and in-directly caused more harm to Catholicism and to Christianity, in general, than did the abuses he first complained about. Martin Luther was basically, a “disgruntled employee” with a huge ego, who had an issue regarding a local problem, with a local Bishop, which was corrected! The German empire took up his “cause” and so did King Henry the Eighth and many Catholics were subsequently martyred (murdered) because of the “Protestant Movement”. Catholics were order by the English, Protestant King, for example, to submit to his authority or die; many Catholics died because of their refusal to submit to the King and to Protestantism, were on the other hand… many Protestants lived…

I hope this helps…
 
If “Protestant” is a “made-up” Catholic term which is not widely accepted, then maybe someone here can tell me how to describe the term for, what is going on in Northern Ireland?

Between the Catholics and the ……, I will let you fill in the blank…

Some of these “intellectual” arguments lack common sense…:doh2:

Peace 🙂
 
ibkc said:
Regardless of the term’s origins, the fact remains that “Protestant” is the long-accepted term for most varieties of non-Catholic western Christians. You can argue semantics all you want, but the correct term is and remains “Protestant.”
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Right, and this is the substance of the second, functioning definition as I gave it.

Note the complete absence of any reference to a continuing “protest” against the Pope or Catholicism.

Very simply, the word began with a very specific meaning (referring to a certain set of Lutheran nobles in 1529 who protested the conclusions of an imperial diet) but has come to mean, basically, non-catholic western Christian.

Still, it doesn’t have anything to do with any continuing “protest”.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Reformation within the Catholic Church, started well before Martin Luther’s 95 Thesis. I refuse to accept the “romantic” or “illustrious” view of a man who was Excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church and who was a heretic and became an enemy of Catholicism. Martin Luther, directly and in-directly caused more harm to Catholicism and to Christianity, in general, than did the abuses he first complained about. Martin Luther was basically, a “disgruntled employee” with a huge ego, who had an issue regarding a local problem, with a local Bishop, which was corrected! The German empire took up his “cause” and so did King Henry the Eighth and many Catholics were subsequently martyred (murdered) because of the “Protestant Movement”. Catholics were order by the English, Protestant King, for example, to submit to his authority or die; many Catholics died because of their refusal to submit to the King and to Protestantism, were on the other hand… many Protestants lived…

I hope this helps…
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History according to James Brousseau…

This is exactly what I am talking about.

People with theological axes to grind shouldn’t play with history, they inevitably end up looking foolish.
 
Jimmy_B said:
If “Protestant” is a “made-up” Catholic term which is not widely accepted, then maybe someone here can tell me how to describe the term for, what is going on in Northern Ireland?

Between the Catholics and the ……, I will let you fill in the blank…

Some of these “intellectual” arguments lack common sense…:doh2:

Peace 🙂
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The really sad thing is that when it all boils down to it, and the labels are taken away (whether catholic or protestant) the fighting and killing over there and elsewhere is done by and to CHRISTIANS. If we’d all stop this nonsense about labels maybe Christ could shine instead of being shadowed by our ‘I am right you are wrong’ murderous attitudes…🤷 It’s a thought…
 
Steadfast said:
History according to James…
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***· ******1378–1416 Great Schism of Western Christianity ***
***· ***1414–1418 The first of a series of disruptive and new perspectives came from John Wycliffe at Oxford University, then from Jan Hus at the University of Prague. The Catholic Church officially concluded this debate at the Council of Constance.
***· ***1438 the Habsburgs, who controlled most of the southeast of the Empire (more or less modern-day Austria and Slovenia, and Bohemia and Moravia after the death of King Louis II in 1526), maintained a constant grip on the position of the Holy Roman Emperor until 1806.
***· *1450 Johannes Gutenberg made his first printing press
· 1461–1483Louis XI of France
***· ******1507 Luther is ordained as a Catholic priest at Erfurt ***
***· ******1509 Henry VIII becomes King of England ***
· ***1509 Birth of John Calvin ***
· 1512-17 5th Lateran Council called to renew the Church.
· **1512-82 St. Teresa of Avila, mystic in Spain, reformed the Carmelite Order. **
***· ****1517 Luther nails his 95 Theses to the door of the church in Wittenberg (in Saxony (in what is now Germany) It is the first public act of defiance against the Catholic Church in Germany..“Many German Princes supported Luther. They were fed up with the Church taking money from their lands in the form of taxes. They saw this as a way of becoming independent of the Catholic Church, and Rome. Luther wanted their support to make the German church independent of Rome.” ***Division afflicts the Church from several sides (see History of Catholic Church and Origins of Christian Churches). Luther removed seven books from the Old Testament (and that is why the Protestant Bible is seven books shorter than the Catholic Bible). He also removed some books from the New Testament, but his followers later put them back. Luther died in 1546.
**· 1521 Luther is excommunicated –
· 1521Martin Luther, condemned as a heretic by the Edict of Worms
· After the first stage of the Reformation, following the excommunication of Luther and condemnation of the Reformation by the Pope, the work and writings of John Calvin were influential in establishing a loose consensus among various groups in Switzerland, Scotland, Hungary, Germany and elsewhere.
· 1521-1522 The Zwickau Prophets, Anabaptists(anti-Catholics) in Zwickau in Saxony. led by Nicholas Storch attempted to achieve temporal rule by the spiritually elect (in a theocracy); claimed to be directly commanded by the Holy Spirit and believed that they were acting in anticipation of the end times, and they held anti-Catholic doctrines, such as rejection of infant baptism and doctrine by appeal to tradition and authority. In 1521, they moved to Wittenberg and grew in power and influence. However, they were opposed by Martin Luther and were removed from power by him in 1522.
***· ***1524-1525 The (German) Peasants’ War was a popular revolt in the Holy Roman Empire.
***· *****1534-1544 161 English and 269 Irish Catholic Martyrs During the Reign of the Tyrant Henry VIII: [at the Very Least: 430 Martyrs] **
***· ***1611 Protestant, King- James authorizes (KJV) bible
 
Jimmy_B said:
1534-1544 161 English and 269 Irish Catholic Martyrs During the Reign of the Tyrant Henry VIII: [at the Very Least: 430 Martyrs]
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Let’s not forget the memorable reign of Mary Tudor described in the Catholic Encyclopedia:
Both under Henry VIII and Edward VI men had been burned for religion, and Protestant bishops like Cranmer, Latimer, and Ridley had had a principal hand in their burning. It seems to be generally admitted now that no vindictive thirst for blood prompted the deplorable severities which followed, but they have weighed heavily upon the memory of Mary, and it seems on the whole probable that in her conscientious but misguided zeal for the peace of the Church, she was herself principally responsible for them. In less than four years 277 persons were burned to death. Some, like Cranmer, Latimer, and Ridley, were men of influence and high position, but the majority belonged to the lower orders.
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I guess we have to say that all have sinned.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Reformation within the Catholic Church, started well before Martin Luther’s 95 Thesis. I refuse to accept the “romantic” or “illustrious” view of a man who was Excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church and who was a heretic and became an enemy of Catholicism. Martin Luther, directly and in-directly caused more harm to Catholicism and to Christianity, in general, than did the abuses he first complained about. Martin Luther was basically, a “disgruntled employee” with a huge ego, who had an issue regarding a local problem, with a local Bishop, which was corrected! The German empire took up his “cause” and so did King Henry the Eighth and many Catholics were subsequently martyred (murdered) because of the “Protestant Movement”. Catholics were order by the English, Protestant King, for example, to submit to his authority or die; many Catholics died because of their refusal to submit to the King and to Protestantism, were on the other hand… many Protestants lived…

I hope this helps…
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I did not know all Catholics were Italian!!
Do not forget about all the Protestants killed by Catholics. Pope Juluis III had hundreds of Killed in the 1550’s. I hope this Helps !!
 
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