Why do so many protestants not consider church attendance an important part of their faith?

[rev_kevin]

Yes I know that the Catholic understanding is about the Sacrifice of Christ and thats all good and well. But thats not all Christ has done for us, he taught us how to live for others, to love others, to care for others, to tend to the needs of the poor, to cloth the naked, and so on. When we give our best it don’t mean material best it means our soul, what is in our heart, how we treat others. You can have the most beautiful church in the world but that means nothing to God.
to be continued

Just because you go to a church that has statues, gold, candles, altar and beautiful paintings don’t mean God is there more and that God isn’t there because some people give thanks, praise, and worship God in a house or home. You stress the Sacrifice which is good but we can’t forget about his life which is just as important.

 

[rev_kevin]

Isn’t that amazing that this an ancient text–written about 1 century after the death of the last apostle–of what the early Christians believed and how they worshipped at their homes/churches??

Ya when you think about it it is pretty amazing.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes I know that the Catholic understanding is about the Sacrifice of Christ and thats all good and well. But thats not all Christ has done for us, he taught us how to live for others, to love others, to care for others, to tend to the needs of the poor, to cloth the naked, and so on. When we give our best it don’t mean material best it means our soul, what is in our heart, how we treat others. You can have the most beautiful church in the world but that means nothing to God.
to be continued

My personal experience is that the Churches with the beautiful architecture and furnishings are the ones that are open every day from early morning to late evening, serving both the needs of the faithful and the needs of the poor, especially the homeless, whereas those that look like empty cardboard boxes are shut up tight all week long, and only open for the worship hour on Sundays, with nothing really available for the poor who are looking for material assistance. (They would probably give something if they were asked, but the poor person would have to be really brave and approach someone with their story; there isn’t really any obvious way to access a lunch program, or anything like that.)

 

[rev_kevin]

My personal experience is that the Churches with the beautiful architecture and furnishings are the ones that are open every day from early morning to late evening, serving both the needs of the faithful and the needs of the poor, especially the homeless, whereas those that look like empty cardboard boxes are shut up tight all week long, and only open for the worship hour on Sundays, with nothing really available for the poor who are looking for material assistance. (They would probably give something if they were asked, but the poor person would have to be really brave and approach someone with their story; there isn’t really any obvious way to access a lunch program, or anything like that.)

Well the architecture and frunishings mean nothing to God it only serves man.
Now most of the smaller churches are closed because the pastor is a volunteer and has a job to go to. But the bigger churches like mine are open from early morning to late at night. We help the homeless, we feed the hungry, we fullfull the needs of the community, We had a homeless family sleeping in a car in our parking lot when one of our members went up to the and asked if they needed help. Out of his own pocket he rented them a hotel room and told them to come back tomorrow for help. My church helped them with food and we got them temporary shelter, paid for by the church. Got the husband a job and we also got habitat for humanity to give them a house, We donate thousands of dollars to different charities. We have homeless stay at our church and we are invovled in a program for homeless families called family promise, which is a nation wide ministry for homeless families, and we started one from our church which was the first to do it in our area. We now have over 13 churches involved. Me and my family were homeless so you can’t tell me that they aren’t approachable. The welcome the homeless with open arms and don’t look down on them at all. We have had people come from off the streets and we helped them. So don’t say something unless you know the reasons some are not open all the time. But there are many that are open to who ever has a need. The smaller churches also don’t have the funds to do all that a bigger church can do.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Catholic social gospel – not liberation theology which isn’t even a theology – is one of our great hidden gems.

One must realize as these forthcoming threads have revealed is that the Mass is not something to take lightly if we are indeed receiving the physical presence of God, that we do wish to provide a place worthy of His presence, and thirdly the fruits of the Eucharist.

The Catholic Church has a magnificent history of providing education, health, social welfare, and hospice to countless millions down through the ages, as well as the very existence of religious congregations who have worked for hundreds of years to serve Christ’s gospel, to live in the transcendence of the Beatitudes, as well as their secular lay associates.

Today there are countless Catholic organizations who are continuing to serve the poor and those in need, and get very little attention from anybody. They like it like that as well. The work is in service to the Lord with a pure heart.

 

[maggie41]

But as far as the question of the OP, I spoke mainly of the weird “house church” phenomenon that is spreading thanks to people like George Barna. As far as just average Protestant church attendance on Sundays, that’s another matter entirely. But the folks that Steph mentioned who are dropping out of church to get into this trendy house church movement - these are people who tend to not value (or not believe in) the benefits of corporate worship. I fear that too many Protestant churches are all about the sermon or the music, and therefore seem “skippable.” Sermons are online; music is on the radio.
Churches need to learn and teach a theology of worship that is less about “me and my personal preferences” and more about the One who is the only reason for our Sunday gatherings.

The part that I have bolded is so true! As a convert from the Baptist tradition, I can attest to the truth of this statement. Coming to church was good in theory, but not neccessary. The fellowship and encouragement of believers was a good reason to attend regularly, but there again, not neccessary. The preaching and the music are THE criteria for choosing a church home. You “church shop” looking for a church that suits your family’s needs in fellowship, taste in music and preaching. None of these things are bad in and of themselves.

But, what I have experienced since becoming Catholic is that attending Church is neccessary. The music, preaching, and fellowship are good, but are secondary as the reason for attendance at mass. The focus of mass is Jesus in the Eucharist. I can fellowship, listen to uplifting music and hear good preaching outside of mass, what I cannot do is recieve Jesus in the Eucharist. Since becoming Catholic I have not felt the need to “church shop” because regardless of the music, preaching etc… Jesus is the same!

In Christ’s Love,
Maggie

 

[jmcrae]

Well the architecture and frunishings mean nothing to God it only serves man.

Aren’t we here to serve man, as well as God? The beauty of a Catholic Church is free for all to enjoy; it is not locked up in a private collection that only one person is allowed to look at or enjoy.

Now most of the smaller churches are closed because the pastor is a volunteer and has a job to go to. But the bigger churches like mine are open from early morning to late at night. We help the homeless, we feed the hungry, we fullfull the needs of the community, We had a homeless family sleeping in a car in our parking lot when one of our members went up to the and asked if they needed help. Out of his own pocket he rented them a hotel room and told them to come back tomorrow for help. My church helped them with food and we got them temporary shelter, paid for by the church. Got the husband a job and we also got habitat for humanity to give them a house, We donate thousands of dollars to different charities. We have homeless stay at our church and we are invovled in a program for homeless families called family promise, which is a nation wide ministry for homeless families, and we started one from our church which was the first to do it in our area. We now have over 13 churches involved. Me and my family were homeless so you can’t tell me that they aren’t approachable. The welcome the homeless with open arms and don’t look down on them at all. We have had people come from off the streets and we helped them. So don’t say something unless you know the reasons some are not open all the time. But there are many that are open to who ever has a need. The smaller churches also don’t have the funds to do all that a bigger church can do.

And I bet you that the furnishings are neat, clean and comfortable, and that there is artwork for people to look at that reminds them of the story of salvation - I’m betting it doesn’t look like the inside of a cardboard box.

 

[ahollars]

Yes I know that the Catholic understanding is about the Sacrifice of Christ and thats all good and well. But thats not all Christ has done for us, he taught us how to live for others, to love others, to care for others, to tend to the needs of the poor, to cloth the naked, and so on. When we give our best it don’t mean material best it means our soul, what is in our heart, how we treat others. You can have the most beautiful church in the world but that means nothing to God.
to be continued

If God doesn’t want the best from our material wealth, then why did He say this:

The LORD said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites to bring me an offering. You are to receive the offering for me from each man whose heart prompts him to give. These are the offerings you are to receive from them: gold, silver and bronze; blue, purple and scarlet yarn and fine linen; goat hair; ram skins dyed red and hides of sea cows; acacia wood; olive oil for the light; spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense; and onyx stones and other gems to be mounted on the ephod and breastpiece.

"Then have them make a sanctuary for me, and I will dwell among them. Make this tabernacle and all its furnishings exactly like the pattern I will show you.

"Have them make a chest of acacia wood—two and a half cubits long, a cubit and a half wide, and a cubit and a half high. Overlay it with pure gold, both inside and out, and make a gold molding around it. Cast four gold rings for it and fasten them to its four feet, with two rings on one side and two rings on the other. Then make poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold. Insert the poles into the rings on the sides of the chest to carry it. The poles are to remain in the rings of this ark; they are not to be removed. Then put in the ark the Testimony, which I will give you.

"Make an atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover. Place the cover on top of the ark and put in the ark the Testimony, which I will give you. There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the Testimony, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.

"Make a table of acacia wood—two cubits long, a cubit wide and a cubit and a half high. Overlay it with pure gold and make a gold molding around it. Also make around it a rim a handbreadth wide and put a gold molding on the rim. Make four gold rings for the table and fasten them to the four corners, where the four legs are. The rings are to be close to the rim to hold the poles used in carrying the table. Make the poles of acacia wood, overlay them with gold and carry the table with them. And make its plates and dishes of pure gold, as well as its pitchers and bowls for the pouring out of offerings. Put the bread of the Presence on this table to be before me at all times.

"Make a lampstand of pure gold and hammer it out, base and shaft; its flowerlike cups, buds and blossoms shall be of one piece with it. Six branches are to extend from the sides of the lampstand—three on one side and three on the other. Three cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms are to be on one branch, three on the next branch, and the same for all six branches extending from the lampstand. And on the lampstand there are to be four cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms. One bud shall be under the first pair of branches extending from the lampstand, a second bud under the second pair, and a third bud under the third pair—six branches in all. The buds and branches shall all be of one piece with the lampstand, hammered out of pure gold.

This is just the beginning. Finish reading Exodus 26-30 for even more examples. Clearly, all that detail had nothing to do with practicality. So what was the point? God is not selfish, so this must have been for our own good. When something is consecrated, it is set aside for the use of the Holy, and any other use is a profanity. Look at the description here, and compare it to the inside of a Catholic Church, where the gold is only found in certain specific places. Ask yourself, why was it important then? Why should it not be important now? After all, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8) When you say that the building is not necessary, that is only partly true. What is necessary is the priest, but the preparations must still be made. A priest would never use a wine glass to consecrate the Precious Blood, and likewise, a chalice is never used for any other reason. Its one and only place is at the altar. Our homes are not supposed to be centers of worship for the faith community. Just as items are consecrated for the Holy, so are places. As such, the only thing that takes place inside the Sanctuary are the celebration of the Sacraments, be it Baptism, Penance, Communion, Confirmation, Anointing, Matrimony, or Ordination. Yes, even some Catholic Churches break that rule. The Sacraments belong to the Church, not the family, and that is why our homes are not the places for them, because they are not private affairs. That is why Catholics don’t have weddings outside, and there are other examples, but that’s the basics of it.

 

[PRmerger]

Well the architecture and frunishings mean nothing to God it only serves man.

Arguable. See John 12:3. Then Mary took about a pint of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus’ feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.

Architecture and furnishings give greater Glory to God.

However, even if it doesn’t mean anything to God (and how do you know? Bible verse for this, please, esp which contradicts John 12:3?), there is no doubt that it does indeed serve man. It provides a concrete example of God’s magnificence.

In fact, grand architecture, art, music, etc have converted many a lost soul to God. Seeing those things of great beauty have convinced an atheist or two of God’s existence.

Here’s one of the great philosophical arguments for the existence of God: the music of Bach.

 

[KathleenGee]

About the church buildings created for man…

Again, what is appropriate for the Divine Presence? It is far greater than music or decorations.

We must return to Scripture to Exodus. There God Himself dictated to Moses what He wanted— how the Temple was to be built, how it was to be adorn, the need for priests, for how they were even to be dressed, the prayers and thanksgiving, the sacrifices and the people present.

Worship was and is prescribed by what God wants and what pleases Him. Only the Sacrifice of Jesus as Atonement for sin, His Body and Blood our redemption and salvation, we offered to the Father, is the only pleasing offering to the Father. The Mass prays for all mankind and unites its prayers for all.

I wonder how much the Mass ‘covers’ for other believers who do not attend…that by baptism non-Catholics are still part of the Church whether they realize it or not!!

 

[eucharisteo]

Well the architecture and frunishings mean nothing to God it only serves man.
Now most of the smaller churches are closed because the pastor is a volunteer and has a job to go to. But the bigger churches like mine are open from early morning to late at night. We help the homeless, we feed the hungry, we fullfull the needs of the community, We had a homeless family sleeping in a car in our parking lot when one of our members went up to the and asked if they needed help. Out of his own pocket he rented them a hotel room and told them to come back tomorrow for help. My church helped them with food and we got them temporary shelter, paid for by the church. Got the husband a job and we also got habitat for humanity to give them a house, We donate thousands of dollars to different charities. We have homeless stay at our church and we are invovled in a program for homeless families called family promise, which is a nation wide ministry for homeless families, and we started one from our church which was the first to do it in our area. We now have over 13 churches involved. Me and my family were homeless so you can’t tell me that they aren’t approachable. The welcome the homeless with open arms and don’t look down on them at all. We have had people come from off the streets and we helped them. So don’t say something unless you know the reasons some are not open all the time. But there are many that are open to who ever has a need. The smaller churches also don’t have the funds to do all that a bigger church can do.

My father in law was always helping people.

I love our beautiful Churches but believe the money would be better spent on helping those in need. Our parish just installed a brand new 1 million dollar pipe organ. It’s beautiful and sounds wonderful, still not my preference for music. But the family that donated the money specified what the money could be used for only. I have to assume that a family like that is also responsible for donating other large amounts of money and in the end will probably make a huge lump sum of money. I also wonder if they were concerned about that money being used to pay off law suits. We have to be careful how we donate money even to help those in need. Some organizations participate in things incompatible with Christianity, like the promotion of same sex marriages or abortion.

 

[Lypher]

Why are you all hung up on this?

I have been to Masses said in homes, and in motel rooms. All you need is a priest, a congregation (one or two people is fine), and the elements of unleavened wheat bread, and grape wine. And permission from the local Bishop of course, but this is easy enough to get.

At World Youth Day, most of the daily Masses were said outside.

I bet Orthodox use leavened bread…

 

[blazerdave]

Absolutely. That’s biblical. All the Evangelicals I’ve ever known adhere to this teaching that you can just turn up when you feel like it (or not, as the case may be) so it must be.

Vaguely,
Mick

Precisely! And when figures such as Baptus, Anna Baptus, Lutharinus, and Evangelicus all set aside their differences to agree on this, who would dare question them?

 

[Loboto-Me]

Since becoming Catholic I have not felt the need to “church shop” because regardless of the music, preaching etc… Jesus is the same!

In Christ’s Love,
Maggie

From what I’ve heard (hearsay because I’m a cradle Catholic), is that often those coming in from other faiths can finally RELAX once they find themselves in the Catholic Church. I don’t know how true that is, but I guess it has something to do with not feeling a need to search and letting the Church take the reigns since the Church has already done all the work. They say it’s harder to be catholic because of the expectations, but it’s easier on the soul because you know in which direction you’re supposed to go. Does that make sense? I heard all this through the “Journey Home” downloads I have on my computer.

God bless you on your continuing journey

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;6545170:

Absolutely. That’s biblical. All the Evangelicals I’ve ever known adhere to this teaching that you can just turn up when you feel like it (or not, as the case may be) so it must be.

Vaguely,
Mick

Precisely! And when figures such as Baptus, Anna Baptus, Lutharinus, and Evangelicus all set aside their differences to agree on this, who would dare question them?

Amen to that! But one might wish that one of them had possessed the presence of mind to cut something into a rock somewhere or other so that we had concrete proof that it had actually been agreed. Then we’d be able to demonstrate to the doubters that indifferentism is indeed a valid stance. But since that proof is lacking people are now actually questioning the minimum effort apathy that has become such a rich resource for so many in these latter days. Where will it all end?

Wonderingly,
Mick

 

[maggie41]

From what I’ve heard (hearsay because I’m a cradle Catholic), is that often those coming in from other faiths can finally RELAX once they find themselves in the Catholic Church. I don’t know how true that is, but I guess it has something to do with not feeling a need to search and letting the Church take the reigns since the Church has already done all the work. They say it’s harder to be catholic because of the expectations, but it’s easier on the soul because you know in which direction you’re supposed to go. Does that make sense? I heard all this through the “Journey Home” downloads I have on my computer.

God bless you on your continuing journey

I would say yes and no. Yes, you can relax in the sense that you no longer feel the need to reinvent the wheel. You finally have a true certainty of belief. The other thing you relax about is the consistancy of mass. I have never left mass and thought or said, “wow, Father was really off today, I didn’t get much out of that, or the choir wasn’t really with it today, what a disappointment, or I just don’t feel like I am being fed here anymore.” Our experience during worship is no longer dependant upon the perfomance or gifts of others, it is only dependant upon our willingness to recieve Christ fully. This is the major difference for me, and a very welcomed one indeed.

But, no, I wouldn’t say that I could really relax completely. Coming into the Catholic Church from another faith is a little like entering a foreign country where you don’t speak the language. It takes time to learn the language. I wish there was a class on “how to live as a Catholic”, things like, what is a novena, a chaplet, what is first Friday devotion all about, what is benediction and devotion and why do I need to attend, etc… There may be a class like this and I am just not aware of it. Becoming involved helps with these things, but for some who are very busy or a little shy, this can be a problem.

In Christ’s Love,
Maggie

 

[rev_kevin]

My father in law was always helping people.

I love our beautiful Churches but believe the money would be better spent on helping those in need. Our parish just installed a brand new 1 million dollar pipe organ. It’s beautiful and sounds wonderful, still not my preference for music. But the family that donated the money specified what the money could be used for only. I have to assume that a family like that is also responsible for donating other large amounts of money and in the end will probably make a huge lump sum of money. I also wonder if they were concerned about that money being used to pay off law suits. We have to be careful how we donate money even to help those in need. Some organizations participate in things incompatible with Christianity, like the promotion of same sex marriages or abortion.

I know what you mean about money being spent better. We paid off our chuch a few months back. We are debt free. We are putting more money into doing mission work. Helping those who need the help. Going to poor counties and countries. Giving and not asking for anything in return. It feels good to do for others. We have not had a law suit brought against us. We do a lot of checking out before we jump into organizations. If we feel something is not right we stay out. I bet the pipe organ is beautiful. We have one but its not all that fancy, but sounds great. My church is not fancy, it plain. We have stain glass windows, and a cross but the walls are plain. Don’t need all the fancy stuff, our money is better off helping others rather then going to stuff that reall don’t mean a lot.
Now don’t get me wrong its a nice church and a pretty good sized one. Like I said we do a lot of mission work in our community as well as around the globe. We don’t go on mission trips to bring them to Chrisianity we go to show them God at work and if asked why we are doing this for them then we tell them why and that has to do with God. I guess what I’m trying to say is you can have the nicest church but if you only spend you money on making you church the nicest, you are missing what we are her for and that is to help others in their time of need. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Justin1982]

But, no, I wouldn’t say that I could really relax completely. Coming into the Catholic Church from another faith is a little like entering a foreign country where you don’t speak the language. It takes time to learn the language. I wish there was a class on “how to live as a Catholic”, things like, what is a novena, a chaplet, what is first Friday devotion all about, what is benediction and devotion and why do I need to attend, etc… There may be a class like this and I am just not aware of it. Becoming involved helps with these things, but for some who are very busy or a little shy, this can be a problem.

Recently coming from an agnostic point of view I understand the entering a foreign country part because it is a great divide from secular society. But as I’ve told my wife many times, especially when I started attending Mass with her after we started dating it didn’t take long before it felt like home. The natural step for me was to take the path toward entering the Church, which did require a lot of time but it appears our faith requires that regardless of whether you are a beginner or a seasoned Catholic.

On Protestants, only from an outside observers perspective, with people being less social and mixed with a faith stripped of Tradition based on scripture alone, it seems a likely progression. I am currently trying to find a way to reach these types of people in my life. Even close friends seem less apt to discuss religion, especially knowing of my recent conversion and the stigma against the Catholic Church.

 

[Loboto-Me]

I wish there was a class on “how to live as a Catholic”, things like, what is a novena, a chaplet, what is first Friday devotion all about, what is benediction and devotion and why do I need to attend, etc… There may be a class like this and I am just not aware of it. Becoming involved helps with these things, but for some who are very busy or a little shy, this can be a problem.

In Christ’s Love,
Maggie

Dear Maggie, it’s not only you and it’s not only because you are a newcomer believe me! I may have been graced with having been born a Catholic, but like you, I needed to learn so very very much. I’m one of those “little shy” in real life, so instead I’ve learned alot from these forums. It’s a good sounding board because when there’s someone who’s in error, there are plenty of “us” to correct them. Many here don’t know it but they are evangilizing the Catholics like me. Did you know that I only learned how to say the rosary this year? I knew most of the prayers, but didn’t know what went where except for the “hail mary”!
Things are getting easier for me in respect to learning what is pious to do and the reasons behind it (it’s hard to know all the in’s and out’s of a 2000 yr old religion! lol) and I’m sure, since you’re getting involved in the Church, you’ll learn alot quicker than some of us who just took our faith for granted.

Ex-protestants are a jewel in the Catholic crown. They’re the ones who took the leap and made a physical choice against many personal hurdles toward Jesus’ Church! I often find that ex-protestants are the ones who taught me the most because they actually researched what they were getting into.

Having read the post above mine, I should add that ANYONE coming from a different faith or non-faith is a jewel in the Catholic crown!

Welcome Home both of you!

 

[maggie41]

Dear Maggie, it’s not only you and it’s not only because you are a newcomer believe me! I may have been graced with having been born a Catholic, but like you, I needed to learn so very very much. I’m one of those “little shy” in real life, so instead I’ve learned alot from these forums. It’s a good sounding board because when there’s someone who’s in error, there are plenty of “us” to correct them. Many here don’t know it but they are evangilizing the Catholics like me. Did you know that I only learned how to say the rosary this year? I knew most of the prayers, but didn’t know what went where except for the “hail mary”!
Things are getting easier for me in respect to learning what is pious to do and the reasons behind it (it’s hard to know all the in’s and out’s of a 2000 yr old religion! lol) and I’m sure, since you’re getting involved in the Church, you’ll learn alot quicker than some of us who just took our faith for granted.

Ex-protestants are a jewel in the Catholic crown. They’re the ones who took the leap and made a physical choice against many personal hurdles toward Jesus’ Church! I often find that ex-protestants are the ones who taught me the most because they actually researched what they were getting into.

Having read the post above mine, I should add that ANYONE coming from a different faith or non-faith is a jewel in the Catholic crown!

Welcome Home both of you!

Thank you so much for the welcome! I heard similar things from cradle Catholics while going through RCIA. It is true that when you convert as an adult you do tend to research things more than you probably would being born into the Faith. But, I long for things to be second nature to me. To know what benediction, first Friday, etc… are just like I know what the Lord’s Prayer is, you know what I mean? I get on the spirituality forum here a lot and I just marvel at how practicing the Catholic Faith is as natural as breathing to these people. I know I am impatient, a virtue God works on quite a bit with me. I have actually thought of asking my parish priest or one of our deacons about starting a class to help any and all who want to learn more. Would that be inappropriate?

Anyway, thanks for your response, it’s always good to know you’re not alone, when you feel alone.

In Christ’s Love
Maggie