Why do so many protestants not consider church attendance an important part of their faith?

[PRmerger]

A much newer, but equally relevant quote: “I don’t believe in religion. I believe in Jesus.”

And what* is* religion? It’s a relationship with Jesus. Nothing more, nothing less.

Since everyone is saved by faith and nothing else…

That is a man-made tradition not found in the Scriptures.

 

[KathleenGee]

I have seen a real suppression of the gifts of the Holy Spirit among Catholics. Back in the 70’s parallel to what was happening in our country with a great loss of moral standards, we had a great movement of the Holy Spirit in my city.

People would come to the coffee hour after Mass, the whole place was so animated and people talking, so you had to raise your voice a little to hear each other…and all people talked about was how the Holy Spirit was moving in their lives.

Then we had people coming in diocesan leadership that were dissenting. A nun in my parish wanted to become a priest, and was giving homilies on Sunday’s and that caused alot of rumbling…and then more happened, and people started closing up. That was the beginning of the 80’s and then we picked up on weird priests and these feminist nuns speaking out or doing things that weren’t right…and getting away with it. It took about 20 years to straighten out the place, then the clergy abuse came out…a weird priest is now in prison, the bishop regretting ordaining him, the seminary board had been dominated by feminist nuns.

Anyway, people are being led in the Holy Spirit to just rest and learn to walk in the Lord because of the times that are coming…we are talking to our pastor about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, of healing, of evangelizing…we laywomen…and we see great need of people coming…and to cultivate our young people to become evangelizers…My friend in SE Italy has that with their young…a most intense Catholic Franciscan culture, very wholesome. I have worked a little to build bridges between those in my diocese and theirs…

But the Holy Spirit is coming to help us. And I am praying for reunification of all Christians to receive the sacraments, and to help in rebuilding our church with their gifts.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

:
Originally Posted by callmecharles
A much newer, but equally relevant quote: “I don’t believe in religion. I believe in Jesus.”

 

[KathleenGee]

Believe in Him…but how?

 

[KathleenGee]

Callmecharles,

Following Scripture, …and Jesus, we must all be baptized in water as Jesus Himself was.

The Sacraments were instituted by Christ before His ascension into heaven.

There was no Bible to use at the beginning of the Church. The gnostic heresies began shortly after Pentecost…and in time, people lost faith in Christ as also True Man. So the final revelation of Who Christ is was at the Council of NIcea.

You can’t have the Bible without the Church. Tradition, the way people understand Scripture through the Holy Spirit and the traditions of how people come together are inseparable from the Word of God Who is none other than Jesus Christ, the Word Made Flesh…

 

[SSTeacher]

And what* is* religion? It’s a relationship with Jesus. Nothing more, nothing less.

During the time I was an Evangelical Christian I heard many of my contemporaries draw a distinction between religion and a relationship with Jesus. And I think if you were to look you’d probably find this same distinction emphasized in Evangelical literature.

In the Evangelical understanding, religion is defined as doing things for God – which might be anything from rituals designed to coax the deity concerned into sending good weather to killing children as on the altars of Moloch – whereas a relationship with Jesus is understood to be the celebration of what God has done for us. Thus in the Evangelical mind the word “religion” is generally equated with “works.” And so one quickly advances to the term, “works religion.”

In my opinion, the Evangelical understanding inevitably leads most people to a very lazy type of Christianity. This is because there is no requirement to actually do anything (except perhaps to invoke the Great Commission as an excuse to mind other people’s business). That’s why some Evangelicals do not see attendance at church as particularly important. They are saved, they are assured of salvation, and they have a relationship with Jesus – so why would they go to church if they have something else more important to do? I daresay not all Evangelicals think in this way but most of the ones I know certainly do.

By the way, I didn’t think you were rude or offensive, either.

Cordially,
Mick

 

[callmecharles]

"PRmergery:

That is a man-made tradition not found in the Scriptures.

Callmecharles,

Following Scripture, …and Jesus, we must all be baptized in water as Jesus Himself was.

The Sacraments were instituted by Christ before His ascension into heaven.

There was no Bible to use at the beginning of the Church. The gnostic heresies began shortly after Pentecost…and in time, people lost faith in Christ as also True Man. So the final revelation of Who Christ is was at the Council of NIcea.

You can’t have the Bible without the Church. Tradition, the way people understand Scripture through the Holy Spirit and the traditions of how people come together are inseparable from the Word of God Who is none other than Jesus Christ, the Word Made Flesh…

Perhaps I should have been more specific… I was merely explaining the reasoning of ‘unchurchers’ as I understand it. The views expressed within the post were not my own, but rather the views of many of my friends and family members.

 

[ronin67]

it seems more and more are becoming “unchurchers” if you will - believing that regular church attendance might even be harmful. They want to do a home church. Believing quite literally that where three gather, there goes the Lord. I’m not even sure how to approach those beliefs; they certainly don’t seem in line with the Bible.

Well, scripture does say (Matthew 18:20) “Where two or three gather in my name, I am their among them”. Hey, it says what it says. I’m a firm believer in going to church when I have my Protestant urge and go to mass when I have my Catholic urge. To be quite honest, some of the best testifying of Christ our Savior has been outside a formal church setting for me. One thing the Baptists do better then most Catholics (and Lutherans for that matter) are sharing the gospel with strangers. I’m sure there are Catholics who share Christ Jesus with strangers, but I have not seen it yet through my personal experience. Sorry.

Take Care and Let’s try harder my Catholic friends. May God Bless!

 

[ronin67]

That’s very Catholic of you to say that, Ralphy!

Exactly. You can only receive Him “spiritually”, not “physically” as we do. It’s like you’re “spiritually” united to your spouse, but you can’t ever be physically united to her. Very unfortunate!

Yes, but you have to admit, most Catholics are horrible evangelist. Its like they don’t wish to share the gospel and get a bunch of undesireables to become Catholic. Many view it as an exclusive club. If you come to us to want to join, fine, but we are not going out and bringing anyone in. That is the only one thing that lacks in the Catholic church. Its like a pride issue that just never goes away. Now Protestants on the other hand, will bash the Catholic church with no knowledge of what the Catholic Church really believes. Protestants love to bash Catholics about good works needed to get to heaven. I must admit I struggled with this one for some time also. Salvation is only thru Christ, the good works (as addressed in the book of JAMES) are proof of truly received salvation. PROOF of, not a further CONDITION of. After all our Savior DIDN’T say; I am the way, the truth, and the light, no one comes to the Father except thru me and GOOD Works. Those silly Protestants. What is there to protest against anymore, anyway???

May God Bless!

Ed

 

[KathleenGee]

Callmecharles,

Thanks, noted.

Ronin, the Catholics I know do evangelize but it is more relational…we wait and share, or just be…and eventually times comes for us to share…it is more effective that way, I think.

When thinking about salvation, I think of the Gospel and the Lord talks about judgment day, when he was naked, hungry, sick, imprisoned, what we did to others, we did to Him…following the Cross, a faith lived out.

Language is always the biggest hurdle.

 

[PRmerger]

So muslims and Buddists have a relationship with Jesus?

I was speaking in the context of the referrent’s quote about one not needing religion (only needing Jesus). Clearly the religion we are discussing is the one that needs Jesus, yes? So that excluds Musliims and Buddhists.

John 3:16
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

To which Catholics respond with a hearty “Amen!”.

But see the Scriptures where it talks about even demons believing. Undoubtedly, belief is not enough to save someone, eh?

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, but you have to admit, most Catholics are horrible evangelist.

:sad_yes:

Many view it as an exclusive club.

Many do. Many don’t.

I know for me I want to shout from the mountaintops, “Come join us!!! Come join the Divine Marriage Feast!”

I just love, love, LOVE conversion stories.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Believe in Him…but how?

Deuteronomy 1:30-32 (King James Version)
30The LORD your God which goeth before you, he shall fight for you, according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes;
31And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place.
32Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

2 Chronicles 20:20 (King James Version)
20And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.

Isaiah 43:10 (King James Version)
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Mark 1:15 (King James Version)
15And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

John 1:11-13 (King James Version)
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:17-19 (King James Version)
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

John 20:30-31 (King James Version)
30And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Ephesians 2:8 (King James Version)
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Hebrews 11:1 (King James Version)
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[callmecharles]

Richard Kastner:

Exceedingly long list of scriptures.

All the scriptures in the world can’t get rid of the Letter of James. You can also look to various things in the gospels, like Jesus telling the rich man to sell everything he owns and follow him (in order to get into the kingdom of heaven). So, in at least some instances, Jesus requires more than faith alone to get into heaven.

Now, I concede the sheer volume of scriptures one can muster for saved by faith alone lends to its credence. I don’t claim to be source of all wisdom.

Is it alright to be this far off topic? It’s really my fault that we’re here. Apologies.

 

[ronin67]

:sad_yes:

Many do. Many don’t.

I know for me I want to shout from the mountaintops, “Come join us!!! Come join the Divine Marriage Feast!”

I just love, love, LOVE conversion stories.

Yes, me to. It is such a great thing when someones eyes are opened by God and they accept Christ. Nothing better. Nice to chat with you again ma’am.

Take Care and May God Bless!

Ed

 

[ronin67]

All the scriptures in the world can’t get rid of the Letter of James. You can also look to various things in the gospels, like Jesus telling the rich man to sell everything he owns and follow him (in order to get into the kingdom of heaven). So, in at least some instances, Jesus requires more than faith alone to get into heaven.

Now, I concede the sheer volume of scriptures one can muster for saved by faith alone lends to its credence. I don’t claim to be source of all wisdom.

Is it alright to be this far off topic? It’s really my fault that we’re here. Apologies.

No need for apologies. If you took away this debate on good works out of the mix, this would be one less thing that keeps the disagreements between Protestants and Catholics interesting.

Have a great day!

Ed

 

[graceandglory]

To which “Temples” are you referring? There was only one Temple.

Curiously,
Mick

Hey, Mick,

Your mocking tone only shows your ignorance of temple worship and why the Mass looks like it does.

Do some more research, bud.
You know, they’ll know we are Christians by our love. I’m sure they teach that where you go too.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I want to locate a book about the history of the Divine Liturgy/Mass. Some did meet in the Temple I know and then would meet in homes for the breaking of break [Eucharist].

If you are talking of the courtyard surrounding the temple. people would gather there. The temple itself was never a gathering place for the general population of Jews and the courtyard was even off limits to Gentiles. The only ones allowed into the temple itself. Into the holy place were the priests to minister the candlestick the shew bread and the alter of incense. Noone was allowed into the most holy place except the high priest and him only once a year on the day of atonement, Yom Kippur to minister the blood of the Lord’s goat. These feasts and rituals, even some of the temple furniture were prophetic in nature and pointed to Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross.

 

[SSTeacher]

graceandglory;6548411:

SSTeacher;6526869:

Amongst Evangelicals, I’ve encountered Acts 2:42–47 (with much emphasis on verse 46b) being adduced in order to endorse this notion. I’ve no doubt that in such company you’d find people who would assert that the idea is “biblical.”

Cordially,
Mick

They did meet in their homes, but ALSO in the Temples! Read the verses around it! :thumbsup:To which “Temples” are you referring? There was only one Temple.

Curiously,
Mick

SSTeacher;6548606:

To which “Temples” are you referring? There was only one Temple.

Curiously,
Mick

Hey, Mick,

Your mocking tone only shows your ignorance of temple worship and why the Mass looks like it does.

Do some more research, bud.
You know, they’ll know we are Christians by our love. I’m sure they teach that where you go too.

I am very sorry if my tone and my question came across as mocking. Did I choose the wrong emoticon? The shrug emoticon, as far as I understand it, is intended to convey ignorance. Would you be kind enough to explain what it is about my phraseology in the above post that makes you think I’m mocking you or anybody else? I’m at a loss as to how you could possibly read such a motive into my wording. If you would talk me through the problem I’ve caused I’ll seek to make sure I avoid causing it in the future.

I’ll eagerly admit to ignorance on a wide variety of subjects and in this particular case I have no hesitation in accepting that your knowledge and that of most others may well be superior to my own. I cordially invite you to address my question and explain to me what you have discovered in your research that I’ve apparently missed.

I am very sorry for any pain or annoyance caused to you or to any other poster or browser who has read my question and has concluded that I was mocking and that I am therefore without love. Such was not my intention.

Apologetically,
Mick

 

[KathleenGee]

Richard,

It is acknowledged that the Nazarene Jews did evolve differently than the Gentile Christians. They did continue to meet at the synagogues, were later evicted, and formed their own, eventually rejecting the 40 day fast out of protest, and moving to meet on Sunday. The synagogues were places of study…the people continued to develop their own music.

It was part of Jewish ritual for the household to practice the breaking of bread. Christ laid down this practice for us at the Last Supper. This practice of breaking bread in the homes is still done by the Palestinian Catholic Christians in their 2,000 year history, descendants of both Jewish and Arab believers.

The breaking of bread in the Gentile world happened at many different places and the homes of the rich were used, and people of lesser means would gather there. There is a post I shared from St. Justin the Martyr who was asked to write down what happened at the Mass, a request that had many surprised as many believed at that time and new…