Why do so many protestants not consider church attendance an important part of their faith?

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larkin31 said:
This is all you have to say in defining “sin”? It is “doing wrong”? That’s it? Like, 1 + 1 = 3 is a sin?
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Why are you asking that? Clearly, by the fact that you’re asking, you know that it’s not.

Let’s not play* that *semantics game, 'kay? I don’t think it’s a stretch for me to assume that you, a former Protestant, know what the definition of “sin” is.

Now, we can go on to discussing how one knows what’s a sin and what’s not a sin.

First you said: consensus of society.
Then you clarified: not all societies.

I’m still waiting to hear if you think it’s determined by the society in which you live. Is* that* your barometer?
 
larkin31 said:
from my point of view, humans–either collectively or individually–ALWAYS are the ultimate arbiters of “right and wrong.” They define it, enshrine it, promote it, change it, enforce it. No matter what religion, no matter what region of the world. I will freely acknowledge this and ask for any evidence of any other kind of standard.
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Then we are bound by nothing.

It’s like when I play pretend with my 7yr old DD. She makes the rules, and then when she decides she doesn’t want to play by those rules, she says, “Yes, but now I don’t have to do that.”
 
PRmerger said:
Then we are bound by nothing.
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The argument, “Because there is no absolute, there is nothing” is a false line of reasoning. It is stated from weakness and ignorance. I expect better of adults. Honestly, I really do. Do you tell children that you expect all atheists to be murderers? Cheaters? Thieves? Really? If you don’t, then what you just stated here is a bunch of rhetorical poppycock that you don’t actually mean. Unless what you mean to say is that YOU yourself need an absolute or YOU will be “bound by nothing.” That is, of course, a confession of another kind.
 
PRmerger said:
I’d just like to know if you’re now willing to admit that non-Catholics end up making themselves the ultimate decider of what’s right or wrong, since God has not spoken on a multitude of modern day moral issues? Will you concede that, tweety?
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No maam I will not concede what I do not believe. Thank you and God Bless
 
larkin31 said:
My morality comes from a nexus of several (name removed by moderator)uts, one of which is the culture in which I live.
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Is the culture in which you live always correct when determining what’s moral? If not, then there must be a higher authority you use–what is that? Your conscience?
 
tweetymom said:
No maam I will not concede what I do not believe. Thank you and God Bless
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Then when you say that embryonic stem cell research is moral (or whatever the modern moral issue of the day is that God has spoken NOTHING on), who has determined that?

Clearly, it was you. Not God.
 
larkin31 said:
The argument, “Because there is no absolute, there is nothing” is a false line of reasoning. It is stated from weakness and ignorance. I expect better of adults. Honestly, I really do. Do you tell children that you expect all atheists to be murderers? Cheaters? Thieves? Really? If you don’t, then what you just stated here is a bunch of rhetorical poppycock that you don’t actually mean. Unless what you mean to say is that YOU yourself need an absolute or YOU will be “bound by nothing.” That is, of course, a confession of another kind.
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Stop being so grouchy. I can see you’re getting irritated, and that makes me wonder if my arguments/questions are starting to be a bit…compelling? 😉
 
PRmerger said:
Is the culture in which you live always correct when determining what’s moral? If not, then there must be a higher authority you use–what is that? Your conscience?
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I already answered this, twice. I use a combination of (name removed by moderator)uts. Different (name removed by moderator)uts take on the most important role at different times in different situations. Sometimes I listen to the voice of a parent. Sometimes a poet. Sometimes a friend. Sometimes Jesus. Sometimes the narrator of the Tao. Sometimes my “gut”. Sometimes my wife. Sometimes my students, because I must remember to suffer the children.
 
PRmerger said:
Stop being so grouchy. I can see you’re getting irritated, and that makes me wonder if my arguments/questions are starting to be a bit…compelling? 😉
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I am not grouchy at all. I mean it sincerely, and with a touch of sadness.
 
PRmerger said:
Then when you say that embryonic stem cell research is moral (or whatever the modern moral issue of the day is that God has spoken NOTHING on), who has determined that?

Clearly, it was you. Not God.
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Thank you for judging much appreciated, and God Bless.
 
larkin31 said:
I am not grouchy at all. I mean it sincerely, and with a touch of sadness.
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Fair enough. Perhaps I mistook your sadness for grouchiness. Still the same cause: my arguments/questions are causing you some discomfort.

I, however, feel quite joyful in this discussion. Truly.
 
PRmerger said:
So will you be honest now and concede that YOU have made yourself the final arbiter, and not God?
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I am honest and no I will not concede in something as far fetched as that. I believe in the whole Bible and worship God very well.
 
Tweetymom… I am finally getting your number.

You have your bible, I have mine as well.
 
In the end it is each one of us that accepts our own religion or lack thereof. A Catholic has to make the decision to be a Catholic. A Lutheran makes the decision to be a Lutheran. An Anglican makes the determination to become Anglican and an agnostic decides his or her path that way. The argument that human beings make their own rules and determinations and Catholics don’t isn’t the case. One has to accept Catholicism first knowing what it expects of them. So if you decide to become a Catholic knowing that the Catholic Church forbids abortion, then you yourself made that decision in a way.

A friend of mind became Catholic about five years ago. I sponsored him in fact. He was Presbyterian growing up then Anglican for about ten or twelve years. Bottom line: He’s already pro-life, already anti-gay marriage, already against premarital sex, already very very very Republican, already a bit cornucopian in his view of the environment believing that man should subdue the earth in any way he wishes, yada yada so he fit right into Catholicism. Who made the decision about all those issues? My friend. He simply is ratifying the pope’s opinions with his own when he signs up. And yet with the liberal view of illegal immigration he disagrees and says, “well that’s not infallible or official church teaching.” Or when the USCCB decides to go for universal health care, he says the same with dissention.

My point is that human beings are ratifying and acquiescing to, generally, things they already believe in when they sign up for a religion. I admit that about myself quite frankly. I’m pro life, anti-abortion, pro traditional marriage, anti-gay marriage, believe in the Real Presence, believe in apostolic succession, believe in the three-fold ministry, etc. so I could never be anything other than a Catholic, Orthodox, or Anglican, etc. I have a narrow field that fits my views. Who’s deciding what is right for me?..me in the end. It’s a bit circular.

Of course theology, history, and theology play a huge role and many of us give up former notions and insights replacing them with our new faiths but generally speaking we go initially where we find a bit of agreement and our own sensibilities I think. Just my ten cents…:cool:
 
In the end you have yielded to the Holy Father to be your arbitrator making a choice; Tweety has made her choice. You yielded to the Holy Father because you see it as making sense so the decision to yield to him had to be made by you. It’s a bit circular.

I’m sure Tweety doesn’t think she is usurping God’s authority; I’m sure she believes she’s living what God wants for her. We mustn’t assume that just because someone doesn’t follow the Pope that somehow they are now in an all-out rebellion against God. We don’t know each other well enough to make such a judgment in here I don’t think? A Protestant might not think that a Catholic yielding to the Pope is allowing God to be the final arbiter but rather a man. That’s equally unfair. I don’t like the egomaniac argument.
PRmerger said:
So will you be honest now and concede that YOU have made yourself the final arbiter, and not God?
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
In the end you have yielded to the Holy Father to be your arbitrator making a choice; Tweety has made her choice. You yielded to the Holy Father because you see it as making sense so the decision to yield to him had to be made by you. It’s a bit circular.

I’m sure Tweety doesn’t think she is usurping God’s authority; I’m sure she believes she’s living what God wants for her. We mustn’t assume that just because someone doesn’t follow the Pope that somehow they are now in an all-out rebellion against God. We don’t know each other well enough to make such a judgment in here I don’t think? A Protestant might not think that a Catholic yielding to the Pope is allowing God to be the final arbiter but rather a man. That’s equally unfair. I don’t like the egomaniac argument.
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Thank you? But I am not usurping God authority in my life I don’t just believe, I know that I am living the way God wants . And you are right no one knows our heart. But God does, so it doesn’t matter what you or so and so and so and so think of me, God is all that matters. Jesus is living inside of me and I try everyday to honor Him just like I suppose all of you here do. Just Because i do not agree or visa versa does not mean we don’t love Jesus. Sometimes people like to be on a high horse because they belong to such and such and believe such and such. I really am not concerned on the name on the door as I am what is in my heart, and that happens to be Jesus. I believe in Jesus as my Savior and Redeemer.
 
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