Why do Sola Scriptura Christians celebrate Christmas?

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kellie said:
how do you know that the form of worship you do celebrate, such as the Catholic Mass isn’t wrong and not to God’s liking?

Sure we consecrate the bread and wine like Jesus told us to, but how do we know that the order of Mass is what God wanted.

Your logic is now flawed.
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Well, I guess you have tto look at what the bible says about that. If what the bible discribes is what you are doing- then it is what God wanted… and if it is not, then perhaps it is not what God wanted… How is that logic flawed?
 
tequilamac said:
So in your opinion, what was Jesus’ motivation in following the Jewish traditions, celebrations, and customs? why did Jesus observe passover, why did he attend the wedding reception at Cana, why did he party with Martha, Mary and Lazarus? what was his motivation? Paganism?
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There is no Pagan tie to the Jewish passover or marriage- so there could not be pagan motivation for Jesus attending those.

Jesus was a Jew- and was obligated to observe the Jewish passover because that was part of the law covenant that God gave to the Jews through Moses…

And God originated marriage- not humans- and it certainly is not originally from pagan worship.
 
Maybe the title should have read Christ-mass…😃

I do admit to having skipped down here in the thread, so I hope this wasn’t addressed before, but this is a feast day, correct. A Holy Day, in fact, where we celebrate Christ’s birth with a Mass. Is that not the true derivation of the word, and the holiday.

It is ironic, and I do think the thread has great merit.👍
 
The way that I see this as to why this was not written in the bible was because of God’s humility. He first humbled Himself when He was incarnated in Mary’s womb. The rest is history. He’s been humble all His earthly life. The same with Mary. She is the epitome of humility.

Think about it, why would Jesus preach about celebrating His birthday? The Apostles only preached what Jesus preached and taught them. Jesus preached in so many more ways than one would think of “preaching.” His actions spoke so much louder. His Love spoke volumes. Jesus is not the type of man that would brag about celebrating His birthday.

I know this thread isn’t about Mary but in a way it is as far as us Catholics understand when it comes to Christ’s incarnation. So I will say that Mary was just as humble where she would be very obedient to any law that Judism had. She had to be cleansed after Christ’s birth according to law so she did that. She did that according to law even though Jesus’ birth was virginal and there was no need for her to be cleansed. Mary presented Jesus at the temple and brought her offerings of the doves even though she was sinless. She did that out of humility and obedience. She wasn’t about to say, “hey I don’t need to do this, I’m the mother of our Savior, so why should I do this. I have no sin so I will not do this.” Come on, Mary was just too humble for that. She is not mentioned too much in the bible because she is not a woman of many words, much less, many empty words. She did not go around bragging that she is the mother of God. Her name according to God is Kecaritomene! The Angel Gabriel greeted Mary as such; “Caire, kecaritomene!” Which means “Hail (but not exactly meaning->) full of grace!” Kecaritomene is actually a passive participle which means Mary was “made” full of grace or “given” all the graces. So the only way that she could be “made” full of grace is if God gave her the fullness of grace. God did that because it was fitting for her to be given or made full of grace. God “went forward” and took the redemption of Jesus Christ and placed the fullness of Grace on Mary. God could do that because He could, because He is God and He is most powerful and He could do anything. So that is why she is the Immaculate Conception.

Okay, sorry so “off topic” but I just had to mention Mary because if it wasn’t for her Fiat, there would be no Jesus.
No Mary, No Jesus!
Know Mary, Know Jesus!
 
asteroid said:
So why do so many people who say that Christian faith and life is based solely on Scripture celebrate it?
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In light of what the bible says and the pagan origins of Christmas and Easter- that is a really good question.

Maybe they are simply unaware that some of their Christian faith is not based on scripture after all.
 
mrs_abbott said:
So, could this be said to be the conception of Jesus, instead of his birth, since Catholics believe that life begins at conception?
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If one prays the Angelus daily, then in a way we have a little celebration of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, every single day! :yup: 😃

I just can’t imagine non-Catholic Christians celebrating the Incarnation instead of the birth of Jesus Christ. I say this because I think they would be afraid of mentioning Mary as the reason why Jesus came to be. Well we all know the actual reason is God but I’m sure you all know what I mean. 😉

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No Mary, No Jesus!
Know Mary, Know Jesus!
 
LMW said:
Easter, according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia is “The English term, according to the Ven. Bede (De temporum ratione, I, v), relates to Estre, a Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring, which deity, however, is otherwise unknown, even in the Edda (Simrock, Mythol., 362); Anglo-Saxon, eâster, eâstron; Old High German, ôstra, ôstrara, ôstrarûn; German, Ostern. April was called easter-monadh. The plural eâstron is used, because the feast lasts seven days.”

What does that… or coloured eggs and bunnies have to do with Jesus?

The above named fertility godess and the egg and rabbit fertility symbols do not appear anywhere in scripture.
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I was never really one to celebrate Easter in the way that is normally celebrated here in America (or anywhere for that matter if it is). I just thought it was just kind of strange with the eggs, the bunnies and the basket full of candy and cheap toys. :whacky:

… ooh the “Gloria” at Mass on EWTN… :gopray: …

I particularly do not like Halloween. I never really did. 😦
 
AlegreFe said:
If one prays the Angelus daily, then in a way we have a little celebration of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, every single day! :yup: 😃
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Hi Sandy,

I am having a hard time finding it in my bible. Do you have the chapter and verse handy?

Thanks

L
 
LMW said:
There are several questions I have:
  1. if it was important to celebrate Jesus birthday, wouldn’t the apostles have done it?
  2. If it was important to celebrate Jesus birthday, would’nt the bible writers have recorded for us the date?
  3. The bible provided for us the date of Jesus death and also instructions as to how recognize by way of an observance that we appreciate what he did for us…
    It would appear that observing his death was important enough for these details to be recorded- so why not for his birth?
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His birth was not the event that actually saved us. I’m sure all Christians know that.

God’s greatest Creation is Mary and His greatest Work is Redemption.

If redemption is only possible by Christ’s Passion, death and resurrection then it follows that Christ’s death is more important for our salvation, than Christ’s birth. Actually His resurrection is because He restores our life and gives us our freedom. But without His dying, He would not have resurrected.
No cross, no crown. No pain, no gain. No gall, no glory. No death, no victory.

We Catholics say in Mass most every day (sometimes another one of the “mysteries” is prayed), this is my favorite one.
"Lord, by your cross and resurrrection
you have set us free.
You are the Savior of the world."
Here are the other ones that we say on different days; no specific one for any specific day, that I know of anyway. But any one of these (or above) is said every day at Mass.
**Christ has died,
Christ is risen,
Christ will come again.

When we eat this bread and drink this cup,
we proclaim your death, Lord Jesus,
until you come in glory.**
my second favorite Dying you destroyed our death,
rising you restored our life.
Lord Jesus, come in glory.
 
rr1213 said:
Conception, that’s fine. The point is that the incarnation is the miracle (stunning if you think about it) of the Almighty God of the Universe becoming Man for our sake…to save his creation from the sin that it had chosen. Where would we be without the incarnation?..in just as hopeless a position as we would be without the Resurrection. Thank God…literally…that we have both.
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I agree with you here. I just don’t know when you think the Incarnation of Jesus actually happened. You make light of His Incarnation as given in the full complete definition of incarnation. You don’t seem to put much importance on the fact that Mary gave her Fiat and was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit and therefore Jesus Christ was conceived in Mary’s womb. That is the Incarnation of which I, and many other Catholics, speak. The actual incarnation is when God was made flesh in the womb of Mary. Later on He made His dwelling among us after He was born.
 
rr1213 said:
I understand the point the OP was making. My point is that the OP does not express a valid understanding of sola scriptura.
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I expressed the understanding of sola scriptura as displayed by many anabaptists, puritans, and very many Protestants in the US until the 18th Century.

Here’s a definition of sola scriptura taken from:

bible.ca/sola-scriptura-start.htm

B. Sola Scriptura means:

  1. *]The Bible alone without creeds. (ie Apostles creed, Nicene creed.)
    *]The Bible alone without councils. (ie Ecumenical Councils.)
    *]The Bible alone without church canons. (ie Canons of Dort.)
    *]The Bible alone without statements of faith. (most churches create one.)
    *]The Bible alone without oral tradition. (unless it is found in the Bible.)
    *]The Bible alone without church tradition. (unless it is found in the Bible.)
    *]The Bible alone without a “church interpreter”. (Catholic, Orthodox, Jehovah’s Witnesses all say only the church can correctly interpret the Bible, not the individual.)
    *]The Bible alone without individual illumination of the Holy Spirit. (Evangelicals, Baptists, Charismatics and Calvinists believe they are personally guided by the Holy Spirit to correctly interpret the Bible.)
    *]The Bible alone without modern day prophecy and inspiration. (Pentecostal, Charismatic and most of the 19th century cults, (Mormons, Seventh-day Adventists) all claimed to have living prophets.)
    Ok, so they have a very strict definition but it is a protestant understanding of the term.

    Note point 6 - “without church tradition”. Wouldn’t celebrating Christmas qualify?

    You see, I may not have given your definition and understanding of sola scriptura, but there are many definitions and understandings of it in protestantism so it is in fact impossible to give a single definition.
 
LMW it really seems that you think that faith should be based upon the Bible alone.

This is against sola scriptura as understood by the reformers. Unless I am misunderstanding you.

Catholics do not base their faith on the Bible, but on Jesus. The Bible is based upon the Catholic faith.

Did the early Christians base their faith on the Bible or on the oral teachings of the Apostles and their followers?

The strict Bible only, (not sola scriptura) followers who follow the King James version(or something similar with the 66 books that were decided upon by Martin Luther and finalized about 150 or so years ago.)
If they do not do anything related to religion outside the Bible, they shouldn’t celebrate Christmas, Easter, have wedding rings or funerals and to be consistant not use drivers licenses or any pictures as that would be against a consistant understanding of modern Bible only followers.

This is the point of the original post.

In Christ
Scylla
 
LMW said:
Hi Sandy,

I am having a hard time finding it in my bible. Do you have the chapter and verse handy?

Thanks

L
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Well here is the actual prayer of the Angelus. But as far as finding the prayer in tact and in “prayer form” the way it is written, you won’t find it all in one place. But most of the prayer is found in various places in the bible (just as the “Hail Mary” prayer is found in the bible).
All Scripture passages taken from the Douay-Rheims Bible; my favorite! 😃

28 And the angel being come in, said unto her:
Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee:
blessed art thou among women.

31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy
womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou
shalt call his name Jesus.

35And the angel answering, said to her:
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
and the power of the most High shall
overshadow thee.

38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of
the Lord; be it done to me according to
thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Luke 1:28, 31, 35, 38

14 And the Word was made flesh, and
dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the
glory as it were of the only begotten of the
Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:14

16 Confess therefore your sins one to another:
and pray one for another, that you may be
saved. For the continual prayer of a just man
availeth much. Jas 5:16
 
Steadfast said:
Because Sola Scriptura doesn’t mean the church can’t cherish good and godly traditions.
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How does Sola Scriptura help us to decide what is a “good and godly tradition” and what is not?

Personally I believe the Divine Office, the Rosary, making the sign of the cross with holy water, novenas, genuflection and many other things are “good and godly traditions”. I know that none of them are found in Scripture but I don’t see them as being contrary to Scripture.

But many others think they’re not good at all. Some would even call them pagan and evil.

I also think Christmas is a good and godly tradition.

In deciding what is a good tradition and what is not, are we making a second rule of faith or practice alongside Scripture?
 
asteroid said:
B. Sola Scriptura means:

  1. *]The Bible alone without creeds. (ie Apostles creed, Nicene creed.)
    *]The Bible alone without councils. (ie Ecumenical Councils.)
    *]The Bible alone without church canons. (ie Canons of Dort.)
    *]The Bible alone without statements of faith. (most churches create one.)
    *]The Bible alone without oral tradition. (unless it is found in the Bible.)
    *]The Bible alone without church tradition. (unless it is found in the Bible.)
    *]The Bible alone without a “church interpreter”. (Catholic, Orthodox, Jehovah’s Witnesses all say only the church can correctly interpret the Bible, not the individual.)
    *]The Bible alone without individual illumination of the Holy Spirit. (Evangelicals, Baptists, Charismatics and Calvinists believe they are personally guided by the Holy Spirit to correctly interpret the Bible.)
    *]The Bible alone without modern day prophecy and inspiration. (Pentecostal, Charismatic and most of the 19th century cults, (Mormons, Seventh-day Adventists) all claimed to have living prophets.)
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  1. :eek: That looks scary to me. 😦 To think that Protestants want to have their religion and/or Faith without the Rock that Jesus Christ gave us as a guarentee of the Holy Spirit so as to teach us about Faith & Morals. How can anyone think that Jesus left us orphans here on earth the way that many Protestants seem to be. And I don’t mean that we each don’t have the Holy Spirit as our paraclete. What I mean is having a sure & definite norm for Doctrine. Something that we can sink our teeth into as far as learning the faith and how the bible should be read.

    I don’t see how Protestants don’t see themselves as sheep without a shepherd. Protestants are scattered all over the place with so many different denominations. 😦
 
AlegreFe said:
His birth was not the event that actually saved us. I’m sure all Christians know that.

God’s greatest Creation is Mary and His greatest Work is Redemption.

If redemption is only possible by Christ’s Passion, death and resurrection then it follows that Christ’s death is more important for our salvation, than Christ’s birth. Actually His resurrection is because He restores our life and gives us our freedom. But without His dying, He would not have resurrected.
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Why did he have to die?
 
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