Why do some Catholics lean politically conservative?

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The most important factor within their lives determining their decision making and one of a deeply moral nature and it’s viewed in light of political and judicial association. Go figure. Murder is outlawed, i.e. there is a law in every state within the union that makes it a severe punishable crime. How has that worked out for us? Has it stopped it?
Is this your clarion call for the legalization of murder, since making it against the law hasn’t stopped all murders from happening?

You would, at least, then be consistent with your views in legalizing abortion.

There is a difference between 1) the state having a legitimate responsibility of the protection of its citizens – all citizens – and 2) the state permitting, promoting and/or paying for some of its citizens to murder others of its citizens.

The first can be legitimated as part of forming or having any state to begin with, the second is an example of the state subsuming to itself the power to override sound moral principles, i.e., playing God by deciding who has a right to live and who does not.

I am certain that God will have something to say to those statesmen who relegate to themselves that level of moral authority.
 
Is this your clarion call for the legalization of murder, since making it against the law hasn’t stopped all murders from happening?

You would, at least, then be consistent with your views in legalizing abortion.
You are entirely out of line. I was 14 years old during the time republican appointed justices rendered the majority verdict in Roe v Wade.
No one within this thread has applauded it’s legalization, advocated for it, or has suggested they are pro-choice.

What has been discussed is government role, partisan political talking points, subjective root causes and Roe v Wade.

But no one has stated they are pro-choice. No one.
 
What would be enough help for you?

education?

housing?

medical insurance?

food?

Because poor people can get these things now.

I don’t understand what you are arguing for.
 
vTrump may have changed his mind for political reasons; however, what he said was that a friend of his had suffered a miscarriage and that had been what caused him to change his mind.

And why not? Seeing his friend’s grief over the loss of what Trump had probably heard of for years as “just a clump of cells” might well have precipitated a grace-filled change of heart.

Are only people on the left allowed to evolve?

Nevertheless, for whatever reason, Trump was the pro-life option in the last election, because HC is most certainly extremely advocative of abortion’s remaining legal. She votd against the partial-birth–abortion ban, for example.

I’d rather have someone who became pro-life for political reasons than someone who advocates for and defends keeping abortion legal and without restriction.
 
The majority of these fundamental necessities have already been discussed within the thread itself. The current disagreement has settled upon the sacred cows of partisan politics of which I do not subscribe, namely the antedote of a particular party being the abortion spokesman for the Catholic school of thought. I’ve called it rubbish.
 
Nope it’s all there, already hashed out. If you’d like to catch up read the above posts. You are welcome to begin with the one that caused the firestorm that goes something like this:

Republican appointed nominees to the United States Supreme Court brought you Roe v Wade.

Point? Voting does not guarantee pro-life amendments and/or laws. Our faith doesn’t reside in the politician or judicial appointees on this moral issue. It resides on the individual and a morally guided conscience best supported by those who believe that life is from conception to natural death.

Actually, One could make an argument for life on science alone, but we’re talking human dignity issues. There is no reason to rely on politicians to do it for us. It may not pan out…ha!~
 
WRT Goresuch, his was the appropriate stance for a judge, who is supposed to rule on what is presented at the trial or hearing.

A judge is supposed to rule on what has been presented during the trial or hearings. If a great argument is made for one side, and a terrible argument made for the other side, then the judge is supposed to rule based on what was said rather than his own personal feelings.

For anyone to imply that a judge would “legislate from the bench” ought to be a great insult.

Goresuch was reacting from this sense of being a good judge, because he would never decide how he would rule on a case before even seeing a case much less hearings arguments!

What pro-life people want to see on the SC is justices who will do their jobs properly and rule fairly, not according to their politics.

I have seen this anecdote used in this way by Democrats attempting to pripagandize pro-life people into voting for the Democrats who run under a platform which includes a strong if not rabid defense of keeping abortion legal at any time for any one.

Unfortunately, all too many of your arguments are like this. You may be pro-life, but you are using lousy arguments.
 
I have read all the posts here, and I am quite sure someone pointed out that abortion was not understoood as an issue, due to lies being spread by abortion propagandists, and was at that time not at all a partisan issue.

This is the issue which caused the two parties to become divided in a way unseen for 100 years.

The Democrats, which had previously touted themselves as the party of the little guy abandoned the littlest guys of all, leaving the Republicans for Evangelicals to persuade to the pro-life camp. Either party could have gone either way, but the Democrats were at that time being taken over by the radicals of the 1960s and one of their things was the furtherance of the Sexual Revolution. Abortion was very necessary for that.

An interesting thing is that people like Hugh Hefner (founder of Playboy) were big supporters of PP and legalized abortion.

Abortion certainly made their lives easier and more “fun.”
 
If one truly believes that ending abortion is saving lives then it should be pretty clear in the current political layout that one should vote Republican/conservative or simply Catholic. While it’s true for Catholics who practice the Faith there is more to being pro life then the fight to end abortion such as defending all the life teachings of Jesus (the five Catholic non negotiables contraception, marriage, end of life issues, etc.) the fight against abortion is primary. Being that the liberals lay waste to all the life teachings of Jesus as stated above should make it all the more clear where a Catholic should place their political support.
 
Republican appointed nominees to the United States Supreme Court brought you Roe v Wade.

Point? Voting does not guarantee pro-life amendments and/or laws
That’s certainly a true statement.

And you can certainly have doubts about our President’s sincerity in proclaiming his Pro-Life sentiments

However, based upon action, we’ve never had a more pro-life President. Mr. Trump is the first to address the March for Life. His first week in office he was stopping abortions abroad and battling Planned Parenthood.

Donald J Trump isn’t a boy scout, but his record is more than acceptable.
 
You are entirely out of line. I was 14 years old during the time republican appointed justices rendered the majority verdict in Roe v Wade.
No one within this thread has applauded it’s legalization, advocated for it, or has suggested they are pro-choice.

What has been discussed is government role, partisan political talking points, subjective root causes and Roe v Wade.

But no one has stated they are pro-choice. No one.
Okay, so let’s assume that by “no one” you mean including yourself.

Suppose that owing to some bizarre warp in the moral landscape, murder had been made permissible by the judicial fiat of a mostly Republican Supreme Court, and under certain conditions was allowed by law.

Those conditions, let’s say, included – among others – placed at risk of being seriously deprived of one’s livelihood or under threat of being seriously incapacitated by one’s supposed malefactor. Not that they had actually done or threatened anything – because that might be considered in self-defense – but merely because it was possible or conceivable that they might.

Would you advocate for keeping such a law under the pretext that you are “pro-life” and having that avenue for assuring one’s own well-being or livelihood meant lives would be protected?

And yet, you stated that a right to life “… resides on the individual and a morally guided conscience best supported by those who believe that life is from conception to natural death.” Why not apply that standard to all cases of killing, and leave all killing of any and all human beings, not up to the courts or the law, but up to individuals and their “morally guided consciences?”

That would be consistent of you, would it not?

Why treat a human fetus any different from all other human beings? Why should all other forms of human being qualify for protection under the law, but fetuses not? Why is their fate alone left up to the vagaries of human conscience, under the rubric of pushing for a pro-life society, but other human beings are not left so vulnerable to your hopes for a properly moral reformation of society? Why are fetuses alone dispensable until that perfect state becomes a reality? Why not place all humans in the reed basket of jeopardy so that we all share in the risks associated with your quest for a pro-life utopia?

Yet, if a fetus is a human being from conception, then why would they not be treated just as any other human being under the law? Why does a threat to livelihood or the possible economic burden on a mother or parents mitigate the right to life of just one iteration of human being – the human fetus – while all others are afforded proper legal protection?

It just seems a very odd proposition coming from someone who claims to be pro- the lives of all human beings equally, to leave only one form of human life in such peril.

You got some ‘splainin’ to do. 😧
 
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Conservatives are pro life
Liberals are pro abortion.
That, by itself should be enough.
If not
Conservatives believe in the first amendment and freedom of religion.
Liberals are very anti Christian and fight to remove God and our freedom of speech concerning God and displays of Christianity from all places, arts etc
 
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Scott_Milso:
Liberals are pro abortion.
Pro-life lib right here.
Liberals are very anti Christian and fight to remove God and our freedom of speech concerning God and displays of Christianity from all places, arts etc
A huge chunk of people who lean left are themselves Christian.
And leaning so far left means they keep falling over themselves trying to justify how they can maintain such a lean and still walk upright. 😉
 
TAG, you might be pro life, but every Democrat senator and rep that I know of is pro abortion.
Nancy Pelosi being the typical example.
TAG, you and me would probably get along just fine, but you would probably not make easy friends with most of the un inclusive left.
Most liberals do not really understand just how radical their elected representatives are. Most Christians would not vote for Nancy Pelosi if they actually paid attention
 
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And leaning so far left means they keep falling over themselves trying to justify how they can maintain such a lean and still walk upright. 😉
I mean, you could apply the exact same metaphor to conservatives, so…

See, this is why metaphors suck in general.
 
TAG, you might be pro life, but every Democrat senator and rep that I know of is pro abortion.
Nancy Pelosi being the typical example.
Joe Manchin, Joe Donelly, and Bob Casey are all pro-life Democratic senators.
TAG, you and me would probably get along just fine, but you would probably not make easy friends with most of the un inclusive left.
Why do you assume I haven’t?
Most liberals do not really understand just how radical their elected representatives are. Most Christians would not vote for Nancy Pelosi if they actually paid attention
Maybe they do understand, but they happen to have different views than you.
 
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HarryStotle:
And leaning so far left means they keep falling over themselves trying to justify how they can maintain such a lean and still walk upright. 😉
I mean, you could apply the exact same metaphor to conservatives, so…

See, this is why metaphors suck in general.
Except that the opposite of left is not conservative, it is right.

The opposite of conservative is liberal.

Left and right refer to perspectives on the role of governance, with the left tending towards the government as the embodiment of the people having full control over all aspects of life and the social order, while the “right” tends towards diminishing the role of government to only that which is required in terms of security against outside threat.

Conservative and liberal refer to perspectives concerning values, with conservatives claiming that values inhere in reality and thus must be understood and conserved, while liberals claim values and perspectives evolve and change through time and thus we must always be open to new ways of acting and thinking in the world.
 
Do you deny the fact that the overwhelming majority of liberals
  1. Are pro abortion
  2. Pretend to be offended by things such as Christmas cards, nativity scenes, the Ten commandments in court rooms (English law was indeed based on Judeo Christian morals), “In God We Trust”
  3. Intolerant of Christian views on marriage
  4. Strangely belittle and make fun of Christians, while strongly respecting Muslims who mistreat and women and behead homosexuals, the very people libs pretend to support.
    You may not realize it but libs/progs think Christians and our beliefs are silly and nieve at best, dangerous at worse.
 
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