Why do some Catholics lean politically conservative?

[help1]

I suppose that’s true. You could well have Catholics that favor Latin mass that aren’t politically conservative. I apologize for inferring that. In my experience, though, the types that tend to gravitate more towards the real far-right trends within historical Catholicism, such as Francoism, tend to also be religiously quite conservative. I’m not sure if they are even heretics or what since we’re supposed to recognize the second vatican council, I suppose they are technically lapsed and on a strike, if you will. That’s the political types, though. There’s no reason a person cannot attend a Latin mass and not be Catholic now, I’m referring more to those types that deny the teachings on human rights and such.

I’ve known some that thought positively of the Spanish Inquisition, which is very dangerous thinking, I believe. Pope Saint John Paul II apologized for it.

 

[redbetta]

While it’s sad that adoption is too expensive for many, there are still more people waiting to adopt than available babies, so I still don’t see why it doesn’t get brought up often in the abortion debate. It’s not like a newborn child will not get adopted and just rot in the system.

 

[Ender]

My claim is that abortion and poverty are a vicious cycle and life cannot be supported without physiological sustenance.

You claimed that poverty was the cause of most abortions. That is untrue.

It is supported by data and this data is offered and supported by The United States College of Bishops which is offered above.

Your link was too general; it doesn’t show anything that supports your claim. Where does the USCCB claim that poverty is the cause of most abortions?

The Church supports it and that is my concern, not whether Ender on CAF does, but the Church.

The church supports what? Your claim? Understand that a statement from the offices of the USCCB does not constitute a statement from the “church”.

 

[Gingersnaps4]

It looks like some people will keep defending abortion unless an impossible standard is met= all needs met and not being poor, for all people. And unless someone agrees with that, then they aren’t really “pro-life” and only care about fetuses.

It doesn’t matter WHY people do it, it is intrinsically wrong and should not be legal. Yes, steps should be taken to help people struggling with a crisis pregnancy, but in general a large number of abortions are an issue of convenience or of sleeping with someone they don’t want a baby with.

 

[Elf01]

It looks like some people will keep defending abortion unless an impossible standard is met= all needs met and not being poor, for all people. And unless someone agrees with that, then they aren’t really “pro-life” and only care about fetuses.

Exactly. I am all for help for mothers who need it. However I think we need the most fundamental right needs to be the priority when choices need to be made.

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

Amen. The Gospel, the clarification in our day given by The Holy Spirit through Teaching Instruments like Encyclicals are quite clear.
My writings here pale in comparison to so much all ready available in The Church for some time. Although the current ambiguous climate in The Church has left this in the background.
So I must leave this conversation. All we can do is raise awareness and avoid endless
arguments which involve justification by playing at heartstrings situation ethics, a great tool
in history by self-declared enemies of God, Jesus Christ, God’s Church and therefore us.
God knows who are of good-will with consciousnesses clouded by the strong delusion and apostasy that God has allowed. We know that Jesus Christ’s Promise that His Church,
no matter how remnant will survive through all these sufferings.
God bless you for your clear concise words of wisdom obviously inspired by The Grace of God. (I tend to pour out too many words in tearful sorrow and concern for others.)
The question as to why some Catholics lean conservative has been answered by many with charity, concern for all, including our brothers and sisters in the womb. Isn’t it odd, that before time began The Sacredness of Life existed - we were created in the image and likeness of God — so just psychologically speaking, being complacent regarding the ‘legal’
acceptance and widespread propaganda regarding child killing — hurts the psyche of those
seduced into it. So adding onto the social psychological damage, by leaving the climate
of child killing as a solution to being impoverished severely damages the person doing it,
no matter their level of poverty or other social issues. The position of complacency regarding ‘legalized’ crimes against humanity is untenable in charity.
How ever veiled it is, all Utopian ideologies, even while thinking they spread The Kingdom of God, leave some as expendable.
The Light of Christ will bring about a return to more protection of the Sacredness of Human Life, in every venue and institution. Just like all historical atrocities, it took decades to seduce into them, aided by propaganda to anesthetized to them, and raising awareness and Providence to end them. So many do not understand the teachings of the likes of St. John Paul ii, Mother Teresa, Bishop Fulton J. Sheen to understand the full Spiritual ramifications tied to this ‘one issue.’ It goes very deep, including consenting by complacency to a grave moral evil purveyed by institutions which are given to We The People. Compromising with such intense grave moral evil and the real life immense loss of life - is also untenable; and using terms like ‘prudential judgement’ for something so intrinsically evil akin to terrorism in the womb in regards to consent to give powers to the conveyors misrepresents the dire nature of the situation. And many factors, like human respect over truth, and misuse of The First Amendment applied to speaking on grave moral issues over financial concerns and pandering certainly contributed.

 

[DENNYINMI]

You claimed that poverty was the cause of most abortions. That is untrue.

It is supported by data and this data is offered and supported by The United States College of Bishops which is offered above.

In a 2005 study, 73% of women undergoing an abortion said not being able to afford a baby now was a reason for the abortion. That number rose to 81% for women below the federal poverty line.1 And while the abortion rate for American women declined by 8% between 2000 and 2008, among poor American women it increased by 18%.2

Economic pressure and government abortion policy can combine to make things worse. One study found that poor women on Medicaid had twice the abortion rate of other women in their state. If the state’s Medicaid program paid for elective abortions, their abortion rate was more than four times that of other women.3 By offering “free” abortions, the government effectively places its thumb on the scale to favor death for the unborn child. By contrast, if these programs continue funding care for mothers and babies but stop funding abortion, abortions among women in the program decrease by as much as 35%.4…………………

AND THERE is much more from The United States Conference of Bishops Page pointing out obvious concerns. But at this point I would be doing your homework for you. Intellectual laziness and obstinance in the wake of addressing poverty as one root cause of abortion as elementary and as well known as it is would make one believe its blindness and willful ignorance that would make someone deny it. It makes me ashamed in many cases to BE a Catholic when I know persons either refuse to see this due to the looks of winning an argument, or pride.

 

[DENNYINMI]

So many do not understand the teachings of the likes of St. John Paul ii, Mother Teresa, Bishop Fulton J. Sheen to understand the full Spiritual ramifications tied to this ‘one issue.’ It goes very deep,

And The Linked Page addressing it also addresses Mother Theresa: From the Catholic Conference of Bishops, United States, Poverty and Abortion, A Vicious Cycle

In defending unborn children, whom Mother Theresa called “the poorest of the poor,” we resist a “survival of the fittest” attitude that ignores the needy – including poor women, many of whom feel pressure to undergo abortions. And in standing for the needs of the poor, we oppose a mentality that treats the very lives of some human beings – any human being, from conception to natural death – as unimportant or burdensome.

 

[DENNYINMI]

It looks like some people will keep defending abortion unless an impossible standard is met= all needs met and not being poor, for all people. And unless someone agrees with that, then they aren’t really “pro-life” and only care about fetuses.

I’ve seen NO one in this discussion defending abortion, not a one.

I have seen someone that has taken a miniscule endeavor in attempting to understand vs demonize “women” who make this determination for their lives. Nothing is impossible with God.

 

[Brendan]

In a 2005 study, 73% of women undergoing an abortion said not being able to afford a baby now was a reason for the abortion.

Does God not know their financial situation? Yet He chooses to gift the woman with a child.

Why is that?

 

[RCIAGraduate]

But what if instead, that child is born into a hard life and because of the afflictions and misfortunes of life instead falls into despair and desolation and now instead we have a soul destined due to perdition? This seems to be the case of those in the foster care system or even a difficult and tragic childhood and family life (the internet seems rife with people with not so pleasant beginnings), so many appear lost and are not bound for a happy ending (please pray for them and others Brendan). What is the answer for them?

I know this warrants a thread on its own but why is despair in some circumstances a sin, much less a mortal one? Some hearts are so delicate, they can only take so much?

 

[Gingersnaps4]

The single biggest way to fix the issues that lead up to abortion would be to change the way our children and teens are taught with regard to respecting themselves, and what is the ideal, and for the government to incentivize marriage rather than penalize for it w/ regard to help available. I read that in 2014 75% of abortion seekers were below the poverty line, but only 14% of all of the abortions in that year were to married women. Society at large is broken and having a family isn’t a priority. That seems to be the root issue. However, we all know that the idea I just proposed would provoke deafening shrieks of outrage from the Left. But still, I stand by what I said before. It’s impossible to fix everyone’s poverty in the world and it should still never be legal to kill any class of human beings. People here know why it happens and we aren’t demonizing anyone. It still should not be able to happen. Keeping on about the various reasons for abortion is defending it. WRT the title of this thread, the welfare model we have had for a long time now is obviously not getting anyone out of poverty and in fact has exacerbated things, so maybe that’s also why many Catholics “lean” right.

 

[Thom18]

Have poor people not had children since the time we invented currency?

 

[Elf01]

I’ve seen NO one in this discussion defending abortion, not a one.

I have seen someone that has taken a miniscule endeavor in attempting to understand vs demonize “women” who make this determination for their lives. Nothing is impossible with God.

I note you have avoided answering my question about if you had a vote to make abortion illegal would you.

To me the most basic right (i.e. the right to life) should get priority.

 

[DENNYINMI]

Keeping on about the various reasons for abortion is defending it. WRT the title of this thread, the welfare model we have had for a long time now is obviously not getting anyone out of poverty and in fact has exacerbated things, so maybe that’s also why many Catholics “lean” right.

This was addressed in the statements within the Catholic Conference of Bishops:
Abortion and Poverty; A Vicious Cycle
By offering “free” abortions, the government effectively places its thumb on the scale to favor death for the unborn child. By contrast, if these programs continue funding care for mothers and babies but stop funding abortion, abortions among women in the program decrease by as much as 35%.

For many years policymakers have debated whether we should reduce abortions by fighting poverty or by passing pro-life laws. The question is misplaced. It is not a matter of either/or, but of both/and. We need to address both poverty and bad abortion policies…(end quote from article)

If we would have stopped about the various reasons for polio, we may have never found a cure.

YOUR statement kind of puts a new spin on Hosea 4:6…“MY people die for lack of knowledge”

 

[Ender]

In a 2005 study, 73% of women undergoing an abortion said not being able to afford a baby now was a reason for the abortion. That number rose to 81% for women below the federal poverty line.1 And while the abortion rate for American women declined by 8% between 2000 and 2008, among poor American women it increased by 18%.2

Economic pressure and government abortion policy can combine to make things worse. One study found that poor women on Medicaid had twice the abortion rate of other women in their state. If the state’s Medicaid program paid for elective abortions, their abortion rate was more than four times that of other women.3 By offering “free” abortions, the government effectively places its thumb on the scale to favor death for the unborn child. By contrast, if these programs continue funding care for mothers and babies but stop funding abortion, abortions among women in the program decrease by as much as 35%.4…………………

AND THERE is much more from The United States Conference of Bishops Page pointing out obvious concerns. But at this point I would be doing your homework for you. Intellectual laziness and obstinance in the wake of addressing poverty as one root cause of abortion as elementary and as well known as it is would make one believe its blindness and willful ignorance that would make someone deny it. It makes me ashamed in many cases to BE a Catholic when I know persons either refuse to see this due to the looks of winning an argument, or pride.

Wouldn’t it have been more charitable just to have provided the link I requested? The link to the study you referenced would be useful as well, assuming they’re not the same thing. I’m happy to review your sources, once I find them.

 

[Brendan]

But what if instead, that child is born into a hard life and because of the afflictions and misfortunes of life instead falls into despair and desolation and now instead we have a soul destined due to perdition?

We are not Calvinist. No soul is destined to perdition.

I do regular mission work in rural Tanzania. Most of the people that I work with live in mud brick huts with grass roofs. Kids have to walk for miles to both get to school and bring water home. The average family income there is $500. Yet there is a huge amount of Faith, even in light of conditions there.

On the other hand, they tend to be some of the happiest people that I have ever met. I think part of that is that they understand that they have to rely on God (and the Church) and they live their lives that way

That is where I see that truth of the words of St John Chrysostom that I posted earlier in the threat. The poor in the US generally look to the government, not to God. God is a THE source of happiness, I think that very few of us see the State as a source of happiness.

God knows and understands the poor.

 

[whichwaytogo47]

On the other hand, they tend to be some of the happiest people that I have ever met. I think part of that is that they understand that they have to rely on God (and the Church) and they live their lives that way

That is where I see that truth of the words of St John Chrysostom that I posted earlier in the threat. The poor in the US generally look to the government, not to God. God is a THE source of happiness, I think that very few of us see the State as a source of happiness.

God knows and understands the poor.

That is so true. God understands the heart and understands whether someone is poor because of their decisions or because of where they are born in life or a combination of the two. In some cases, people have an ability to improve their lot in life while others (particularly those in 3rd world countries) don’t either because of caste systems or an inability to move from their locale to another more capitalist country.

I knew a sibling group of 4 from Nigeria that were able to get a green card and were able to buy a house for cash in a short period of time. They were working their tails off and totally were committed to their goal.

Money doesn’t create happiness. Yes, it can make life easier, but what truly makes us happy is a sense of purpose. Even if we are wealthy, if there is no sense of purpose, we are miserable and useless. The depression rate among those who win the lottery are sky high and at least a third go broke after 5 years. Some would say it’s overspending. Yes, that’s true, but I really think it’s from a broken heart, the broken heart of lacking purpose. I think money can definitely provide security and allows you to give to people in need, but it is an empty vessel without truly finding your purpose in life which is thru your connections, work, or any life pursuits.

 

[thinkingkind]

Catholics can never ever support a party or a candidate who endorses abortion. Full stop. So it can never be Democratic party and therefore will be either Republican or independent conservative. At the moment Catholics have the best President as he fights abortion as none before him.

 

[HarryStotle]

Have poor people not had children since the time we invented currency?

For most of human history the lives of people have been less secure, less well-off and far more tenuous than they are today, but for some reason women are given a pass if they choose to abort their children for whatever reason.

I doubt the issue is poverty more than a fear of losing out on opportunity or an unwillingness to be burdened by having to care for a child. It’s more about a general moral failure of society and a reprioritizing of the value of human life relative to material goods, than it is about poverty.