A
Adolphus_WC
Guest
Where ever has a human been grown outside a womb?
- Status
No, they do not.
If they dealt with what is possible, then abortion after this imaginary 22 week line would be outlawed.
B
BillP
Guest
Uh,no.
No human being (or any other mammal) has EVER been grown to the birth stage outside of a uterus.
If you’re referring to surrogacy, that’s another non-starter because once the zygote implants into the uterine wall of the mother, then it can’t be detached for re-attachment in another uterine wall.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Happy Mothers Day later this month.
Motherhood is to support sustain the fetus (very little baby). Not kill them.
She does not have the right to kill the fetus within her anymore than she will later have the right to kill the 2 year old who depends on her for all his life and welfare.
B
Bookcat
Guest
a…one does not become human at birth!
I was referring to any “test tube baby” as the colloquial term denotes.
They are a human person from the moment of conception.
They are not a tree…nor a dog …or a cat. They are human.
R
Rence
Guest
Yes, and no. While there are some peole who live what some might call “immoral” lifestyles, there are those that don’t. Yet we all value our freedom. I value my freedom very much, however, I live a very moral lifestyle. I choose to. And while some people may consider cohabitating “immoral”, many would disagree, especially those who have been cohabitating for decades. Another is the usage of ABCs within a marriage. While some may consider it immoral, quite a few others do not. I certainly value my freedom, a lot more than what others perceive as “moral” structure.
That’s the difference I think: many believe a soul is present at conception, but others believe a soul enters later, perhaps at implantation. This will make their views of abortion, and ABCs differ. Over half of conceptions don’t make it to implantation. In addition, pregnancies can’t even be positively determined until implantation. I don’t think anyone denies that life begins at conception. But life begins at conception with all mammals, and quite a few disagree on whether those mammals have souls at all.
T
TEPO
Guest
You say it’s never been contemplated, but I just did… You’re wrong.
R
Rence
Guest
I think that’s normal as one travels though their journey through life.Well yeah, if you put it that way-
I think they look at the Church as the deposit of the Faith but look for their science elsewhere. Their decision process doesn’t end with the dogma.
B
Bookcat
Guest
every single child who has been conceived in a petri dish or test tube has been grown outside of a womb. Growth happens in seconds. The cells are extremely rapid in their division! A human is human from the moment of conception – and they grow right away.
A 1 year old has grown more. But without care from others he will die. He can not live on his own.
It will take many more years for him to be able to do that.
So if I have a wee little one I ought to have the choice (as some actually propose!!) to not accept him yet as a human person …and to decide he is not turning out to be what I expected so …lets start over …get rid of him (he can not yet make it on his own so we can kill him) and lets start again. Or simply forget the project entirely.
B
BillP
Guest
You have a definitional problem. A fertilized egg simply isn’t a human being by any meaningful definition of the term (it isn’t a tree, or a dog or a cat either). It is, depending on its current status a zygote, embryo or fetus, which will perhaps in due course, become a human being.
You’re right, a person doesn’t become a human being at birth, but neither does it become a human being at conception.
B
Bookcat
Guest
A actually it is your definition that is wrong.
“Human person” is yes a very meaningful term -unless one is in favor of abortion than it is an arbitrary term. Some want it not to apply to age two or whatever.
The human person goes through MANY stages in life…conception…zygote or fetus…yes of course…and up to newborn…and one year old…and two year old…and 88 years old …
Age does not determine if or if not a human person is a human person.
T
thewanderer
Guest
Yeah, I guess that’s where my problem with it comes in, is morality really based off of whatever our government happens to say is ok? I mean viability will change because of an advance in technology, not because of any change to the developmental process of the fetus. The argument against abortion is that it is the intentional killing of an innocent human. If it’s an innocent human at 22 weeks right now it was also an innocent human at 22 weeks in the past when viability came much later. So by presently admitting it is a person you would by extension have to admit that it was a person back then even when it wasn’t viable. Once you realize that, you can see that the definition of personhood cannot rely on something extrinsic to the fetus such as viability. Personhood is intrinsic, viability extrinsic. How is viability in any way suitable for judging personhood?
B
Bookcat
Guest
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
T
TEPO
Guest
Does a fertilized egg have a unique and complete DNA sequence of its own -which is specifically a human one… Does it not have the complete pre-determined sequence for cell arrangement for the entirety of the individual’s life…? Has cell arrangement begun…? Do cells not continue to arrange throughout the entire life of the individual including the whitening of the hair as the individual ages, and the wrinkling of the skin?
B
Bookcat
Guest
The Catechism of the Catholic Church
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.
F
fix
Guest
That is nothing but arbitrary.
R
Rence
Guest
It does depend… because that will drive people’s actions. It’s kind of pointless to tell someone that the Church has authority over them if they don’t recognize and reject that authority. That’s not much authority in that case.
B
BillP
Guest
So what?
It still is nothing more than a potential human being.
An acorn has all of those things and it STILL doesn’t make it an oak tree.
F
fix
Guest
What is a human being?
That answer depends upon if the individual wants to support abortion or not.
If not, then it would properly be defined with the genetic structure shared by humans, but not shared by any other species on the planet.
If so, then there will be a lot of parsing concerning physical traits, location relative to womb, perhaps even tests for cognitive ability.
- Status