Why do some consider New Age spirituality worse or on the same level as atheism or agnosticism?

[AlanFromWichita]

First of all, I want to start off with a disclaimer that I am not in any way condoning New Age spirituality as an acceptable alternative to Christianity. However, I am often troubled when I read threads that seem to equate these sorts of religious or spiritual beliefs with atheism, or even seem to think of them as worse. If a person is able to see that life is not a mere accident without meaning, cannot we at least admit that they are closer to understanding the truth than those who think that all forms of non-materialist belief are just empty superstition?

As C.S. Lewis said, in this era where atheism and skepticism are so rampant, it may be necessary “first to make people good pagans, and after that to make them Christians” with the people in question being understood as secularists. I personally can speak for the fact that, during a long period of doubt, my appreciation of classical mythology was one of the things that kept me open to the supernatural, without which I may have become exactly the kind of imaginatively sterile atheist as now dominates public intellectual life.

You have some excellent points. I have a number of what most would call “new age” facebook friends. Some of them are narrow minded and judgmental, and like to poke fun at other religions from time to time; I’ve unfriended those.

The other kinds of new agers are sincere about trying to find truth in life, and they honestly want to develop a love that is deep and rich and thorough – not just a pretension. Now some of them are more advanced than others. Advanced in my opinion, not theirs. If they talk about crystals every time they post, or tarot reading, or what have you, then typically they seem pretty tied to their dogma, rather than being truly open.

But I have a couple “new age” friends who are amazing in their insight and they react to adversity in ways that if they were Christians, could make them saints. One couple in particular I find very inspiring. They were in a car wreck a year or so ago, and the girl suffered some pretty bad brain damage and the guy was shaken up but not like her. They post many times a day so as much as I feel like reading I can follow their thoughts and tribulations through the day. And they have been amazing. I have experience in mental illness and I know how awesome these kids’ outlook to the whole thing. Not only that, but they say really inspiring things in their own words, now and then I’ll quote Jesus by saying, "in our religion, Jesus told us that ‘blah blah blah’ " and 10 times out of 10 they will both “like” my comment. Sometimes they will even give their reaction. I see this as they endorsing that Jesus is giving guidance that reflect a direction they have found to be true in their own painful journey. So they may be new age, but they have agreed to something Jesus said so I rejoice in our agreement rather than run to find a way I can distance myself from them. An act of love to a new ager is nothing to fear, any more than shaking hands with a man that gets angry. They both have spiritual irregularities – if one judges by the Christian teachings – but neither of them is contageous. If I’m going to evangelize, I have to use bait that the fish will already want; I can’t yell at them to tell them if they just eat my lure they will acquire a taste for it.

And as far as dazzling them and pinning them with our theological brilliance:

1 Cor 1:17-25
For Christ did not send me to baptize but to*** preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.***

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the learning of the learned I will set aside.”

Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish? For since in the wisdom of God the world did not come to know God through wisdom, it was the will of God through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those who have faith.

For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Thank you for your courage in opening this discussion right here in the midst of all the dive-bombers!

Alan

 

[Edmundus1581]

If it lead to a rejection of reason, it might lead to superstition, but I am not sure that this is worse than atheism.

I was thinking of worse practical consequences for the individual. New Agers tend to believe that there is range of higher “laws” which take precedence over scientific laws, modern medicine, and societal laws. “The Secret” is a prime example. They believe that with mind power they can do astral travel, levitation etc; that mental powers will bring wealth, the perfect partner, world peace and so on; and that crystals, naturapathy, etc, are efficacious. They thus make very irrational decisions and put more effort into New Age practices than they put into their jobs and lives, expecting abundant results. They take huge risks with career and relationships based on “gut feeling” and mysterious “signs”.

Atheists and agnostics tend to be more practical and risk averse.

Two cases I know of from the news: in the 80’s I read of a couple who starved their child to death by putting her on a diet of light and water. Steve Jobs famously turned to alternative medicine first for his cancer, delaying the treatments which may have saved him (his cancer was diagnosed early enough to have a chance of recovery).

I won’t speculate whether this is spiritually better or worse than atheism. There is probably no single answer.

I suggest you read that link I posted which acknowledges that there are some genuine spiritual reasons that people turn to the New Age, and acknowledges the huge variety of beliefs and practices - some sound, but many not.

 

[Kevin12]

I was thinking of “worse” practical consequences for the individual. New Agers tend to believe that there is range of higher “laws” which take precedence over scientific laws, modern medicine, and societal laws. “The Secret” is a prime example. They believe that with mind power they can do astral travel, levitation etc; that mental powers will bring wealth, the perfect partner, world peace and so on; and that crystals, naturapathy, etc, are efficacious. They thus make very irrational decisions and put more effort into New Age practices than they put into their jobs and lives, expecting abundant results. They take huge risks with career and relationships based on “gut feeling” and mysterious “signs”.

Atheists and agnostics tend to be more practical and risk averse.

Two cases I know of from the news: in the 80’s I read of a couple who starved their child to death by putting her on a diet of light and water. Steve Jobs famously turned to alternative medicine first for his cancer, delaying the treatments which may have saved him, or at least prolonged his life.

I won’t speculate whether this is spiritually better or worse than atheism.

I suggest you read that link I posted which acknowledges that there are some genuine spiritual reasons that people turn to the New Age, and acknowledges the variety of sound and unsound practices.

I understand what you are saying - but I am not certain that sort of extreme behavior is really typical of the run of the mill New Ager - most of them use these beliefs as a way of interpreting what happens in their lives and give them meaning, rather than anything that would go against social norms. Even the word “pagan” means simply the beliefs of the common people - such belief systems are inherently flexible because they were designed as a pragmatic approach to the supernatural world. If anything, I would say we of the monotheistic religions have a stronger tendency toward extreme behavior, since our beliefs are ideological rather than practical.

 

[Cadian]

Kevin12 the truth is the truth. It can be nothing else. Reason dictates that there is only one truth by definition or it wouldn’t be “the truth”. None of the ideas presented in “religions” or “new age practices” that do not hold to the Trinity or all that Jesus teaches are the truth. They “may” have some of the elements of the fullness of truth and faith due to the natural law but, they are not the complete “truth”. Many “new age practices” lead one into error and potential danger. If one is not living their life in accordance to how Jesus showed us to live then they are in error. Catholics included, that do not follow the fullness of the faith and seek to “interject” their “personal views” to make themselves “feel good” about the “error” (e.g. sin) they are living.

Reason dictates that the truth must be the truth or it is a lie. God who is the embodiment of Truth is either as He says He is or all that one believes in Christianity is false and we are all fools.

 

[Tobias65]

The most important truth is reconciliation with God. This cannot be accomplished outside of Jesus Christ.

There are however, a multitude of other truths that are helpful. “Don’t drink poison” is a truth that we all live by and find very helpful, but Christians do not own a monopoly on this particular truth. Living a life of integrity has it’s own rewards, and people do not have to believe in God to do that either.

My biggest surprise when I encountered pagan gods was that they were actually quite helpful. All my life as a Christian I had been told how horrible they all were, and to expect nothing but trouble if I ever ran into any of them. But as things are, I have yet to figure out what their long term plan is to drag my soul to hell, as they seem rather uninterested in opposing God’s plans.

Once I was in the middle of an online argument with a satanists, and asked Athena to assist me in battle. She immediately told me in no uncertain terms that she would not help me, because I was being stupid to fight with this person. So instead I asked her for assistance in making peace, (which was definitely the right thing to do), and she did help me with wisdom on how to accomplish a cease fire.

Two or three times the goddess Hera has given me wisdom to help my marriage relationship. I have not asked for it, she merely offered, I accepted, and it worked. Very well, I might add! We might be divorced today had I not heeded her advice on one particular occasion.

So when I say that this stuff works… I’m speaking from experience. Any Christian that encounters the reality of these other religions is not going to want to come back to a powerless philosophy that simply hopes to gain us favors in the afterlife. Thankfully I have a deep relationship with Him, and have received ever so much more from the Lord God, that these others are not a serious temptation to me.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Two cases I know of from the news: in the 80’s I read of a couple who starved their child to death by putting her on a diet of light and water. Steve Jobs famously turned to alternative medicine first for his cancer, delaying the treatments which may have saved him (his cancer was diagnosed early enough to have a chance of recovery).

If one memory in 30 years comes to mind, I can hardly say this is “typical” behavior of new agers.

There are many reasons people delay treatment, religious and non-religious alike.

I don’t understand where these caricatures of new agers come from. I see written material from living, breathing new agers, within hours of the time it’s written. They are looking for love and to make sense out of their life, and find what gives them peace and joy. They have desire to do good; they just have a different way of going about it. I don’t see how they are dangerous. Sure, we think they’re going straight to hell because they don’t share our religious beliefs, but I mean how are they hurting anyone else? Unless of course we set up a straw man or we look at fringe behavior and blame it on the mainstream practice – which puts new age into the same boat as any other belief system or lack of it. If only one kills a child in 30 years enough to make memorable headlines, then they are much better off than any other demographic group.

As far as atheists, most athiests I know have a desire to do good and avoid doing bad. But we are afraid of them because without a God we think they’ll do just about anything. Well there are Christians who profess a belief in God and do just as crazy things. But I get what you all are saying; someone who is motivated by unseen forces, might be more likely to eschew whatever controls that logic and accountability have. With Christians and maybe to a lesser extent new-agers, (because I don’t see them so much as “mission driven” which narrows their vision) if they believe they are doing something for a God greater than themselves, then right or wrong they may do things that make no sense and even harm themselves or their loved ones, all believing that their diety wants them to do that. Even Abraham had this problem until he realized God really didn’t want him to do what Abraham thought God wanted him to do, after all.

Alan

 

[Kevin12]

The most important truth is reconciliation with God. This cannot be accomplished outside of Jesus Christ.

There are however, a multitude of other truths that are helpful. “Don’t drink poison” is a truth that we all live by and find very helpful, but Christians do not own a monopoly on this particular truth. Living a life of integrity has it’s own rewards, and people do not have to believe in God to do that either.

My biggest surprise when I encountered pagan gods was that they were actually quite helpful. All my life as a Christian I had been told how horrible they all were, and to expect nothing but trouble if I ever ran into any of them. But as things are, I have yet to figure out what their long term plan is to drag my soul to hell, as they seem rather uninterested in opposing God’s plans.

Once I was in the middle of an online argument with a satanists, and asked Athena to assist me in battle. She immediately told me in no uncertain terms that she would not help me, because I was being stupid to fight with this person. So instead I asked her for assistance in making peace, (which was definitely the right thing to do), and she did help me with wisdom on how to accomplish a cease fire.

Two or three times the goddess Hera has given me wisdom to help my marriage relationship. I have not asked for it, she merely offered, I accepted, and it worked. Very well, I might add! We might be divorced today had I not heeded her advice on one particular occasion.

So when I say that this stuff works… I’m speaking from experience. Any Christian that encounters the reality of these other religions is not going to want to come back to a powerless philosophy that simply hopes to gain us favors in the afterlife. Thankfully I have a deep relationship with Him, and have received ever so much more from the Lord God, that these others are not a serious temptation to me.

I think you are treading on dangerous ground. I think the most likely case is just that you are using the idea of the gods as a physiological tool, but if you mean it at all seriously then you are violating the first commandment. I may have once or twice invoked the hammer of Thor to aid me in bowling, but that was a joke.

I doubt that the gods of classical myth really exist, but if they do, they are either Devils or Nephilim - even if you think they are helping you, they are no doubt just pursuing their own ends. Though I think I too am being superstitious and you are probably mistaken about the whole thing.

 

[Tobias65]

I think you are treading on dangerous ground. I think the most likely case is just that you are using the idea of the gods as a physiological tool, but if you mean it at all seriously then you are violating the first commandment. I may have once or twice invoked the hammer of Thor to aid me in bowling, but that was a joke.

I doubt that the gods of classical myth really exist, but if they do, they are either Devils or Nephilim - even if you think they are helping you, they are no doubt just pursuing their own ends. Though I think I too am being superstitious and you are probably mistaken about the whole thing.

The first commandment is “Thou shall have no other gods before Me.” “Before” meaning “above”, as in not having any gods above Him.

This means we can have kings, presidents, and bosses at work as long as they are not elevated above God in our esteem and practice. We can watch tv as long as we do not let it become a god in our lives by taking us away from the things that God has commanded us to do.

If indeed pagan gods are real, then they too must not be elevated above God – according to the first commandment. There is no command against acknowledging they are real. Or against us talking to them, if that happens to become possible. We are required not to worship them. And according to the prophets, not allow ourselves to love them and go after them like the Israelis did when God accused the people of committing adultery against Him.

Idolatry is a different problem… similar perhaps to someone obsessed with a statue of Saint Michael vs. who the Archangel is in reality. The Bible does tell us that many of the idols were either empty of any deity, or were possessed by demons that the people worshiped without knowing the difference. I would say from personal experience that Athena is a different individual than the idols and the cult that used to worship in her name. To me she seems more like a saint or an angel, who simply helped mankind and unfortunately got placed into the center of their worship.

Or, she could be a demon, and I haven’t discerned things correctly yet.

The point I was making however, is that there is spiritual, physical, emotional, and psychological help available to people of other faiths. To say that every other religion is based upon evil and deception is to deny the good that most people can see with their eyes.

I think the evil of Greek paganism was to worship the angels that God sent to help mankind in their ignorance of the One True God. (Or one possibility, at least). The same issues apply today. Help is available to all mankind. “It rains upon the evil and the righteous alike.” The same rain that falls upon the godly man’s field does not become evil the minute it touches his unrighteous neighbor’s ground. No, the rain is good for all farmers.

We need to accept the fact that we don’t have a monopoly on all the good truths that help mankind. We may have the Ultimate Truth, but there are other truths that perhaps our religion has denied, and we might need to import from other faiths to give ourselves a fullness of all that is available. This doesn’t mean other religions are “right”, it simply acknowledges the mercy of God! Who has indeed been helping mankind across the entire planet throughout history, rather than focusing all His love on just one small group of people in the Middle East.

 

[Tobias65]

I might also mention that not all pagan gods are treated equally in the Bible. God passed judgement on the Canaanite gods, and determined that they were so bad that even their followers needed to be exterminated. Most references to the “other” gods and idolatry that we find in the Bible have to do with the gods of Canaan.

Abraham was unwilling to let Issac marry a Canaanite woman, so he sent his servant to find one from his own people back where they came from. Was she a follower of Jehovah? Probably not at first! Jacob did the same type of thing, marrying Leah and Rachel. We read later how Rachel stole her father’s gods and took them with her when they left home.

Another story I find interesting is that of Jonah. On the ship, before they threw him overboard he told them that he was running from Jehovah. After he was overboard, we read that all the sailors made offerings to Jehovah for saving their necks. In Nineveh however, Jonah never told them which god sent him to warn them of impending doom. The people there did not repent before Jehovah, but before “El”. El was both a pagan god, and/or the name the Hebrews called God before the Exodus. It seems though in this case God was merely interested in the people’s behaviour, not in their theological understanding to call Him by the right name (or even repent before the correct god!?)

Perhaps this is part of the reason that Lewis thought that good pagans are better than your average atheist.

 

[Cadian]

I might also mention that not all pagan gods are treated equally in the Bible. God passed judgement on the Canaanite gods, and determined that they were so bad that even their followers needed to be exterminated. Most references to the “other” gods and idolatry that we find in the Bible have to do with the gods of Canaan.

Abraham was unwilling to let Issac marry a Canaanite woman, so he sent his servant to find one from his own people back where they came from. Was she a follower of Jehovah? Probably not at first! Jacob did the same type of thing, marrying Leah and Rachel. We read later how Rachel stole her father’s gods and took them with her when they left home.

Another story I find interesting is that of Jonah. On the ship, before they threw him overboard he told them that he was running from Jehovah. After he was overboard, we read that all the sailors made offerings to Jehovah for saving their necks. In Nineveh however, Jonah never told them which god sent him to warn them of impending doom. The people there did not repent before Jehovah, but before “El”. El was both a pagan god, and/or the name the Hebrews called God before the Exodus. It seems though in this case God was merely interested in the people’s behaviour, not in their theological understanding to call Him by the right name (or even repent before the correct god!?)

Perhaps this is part of the reason that Lewis thought that good pagans are better than your average atheist.

This is error (as was your other post ). Jehovah is another name for God. You are also mischaracterizing the Story of Jonah to prove your pagan view ( yes you are pagan and not Christian if you "pray to many “g"ods like “athena” et, al” in addition to God ). You are not following the first commandment. Please reconsider what you are saying.

 

[Tobias65]

This is error (as was your other post ). Jehovah is another name for God. You are also mischaracterizing the Story of Jonah to prove your pagan view ( yes you are pagan and not Christian if you "pray to many “g"ods like “athena” et, al” in addition to God ). You are not following the first commandment. Please reconsider what you are saying.

Has anyone ever worshiped Mary and made her out to be “another” god? Yet you still pray to her in what you consider to be an acceptable manner, don’t you?

I fully admit that there are unacceptable manners in which to interact with entities that were formerly worshiped as pagan gods. But if Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords, then who are these other kings and lords that He has been put over? Must we assume that all spiritual authorities on this Earth are demonic, and under Satan’s rule rather than God’s?

In the story of Jonah, the sailors worshiped YHVH while the Ninevites repented before EL. We know that Jonah was not very forthcoming when it came to explaining things to the Ninevites, so when they repented they did so according to their best guess. Interpret the story however you want.

 

[Skadi]

Im often blown away by the reaction some christians have to new age/neopagan faiths and spirituality. Most of your casual catholics just think of them as sill kids pretending they are witches, but you get some serious fire and brimstone from some.

I think the whole new age movement and especially the neopagan faiths that form a major part of it may appear satanic to some, because of the wide use of magik, Divination, and astral travel ect. as well as the fact some are polytheists, which is VERY foreign to contemporary western culture.

 

[Cadian]

Has anyone ever worshiped Mary …

No one “worships Mary” and she herself would not encourage such worship. She always directs us to her Son. This is error on your part. Mary and the rest of the Saints intervene on behalf as if you were to ask someone to pray for you. The Saints are alive in God in Heaven.

You are attempting to “tacitly” “prove” your error, and you are in error. There is no other god but God. Everything you say is against the first commandment. You are not a Christian if you hold your heretical views. You are a pagan.

You also either don’t understand my faith or are purposely working against it. I hope you are ignorant and not working for darker forces.

Please seek out a holy priest, RCIA, or some other source, but do not continue on these forums to spread error. You are acting out of pride to prove your point.

Jesus said most clearly, he is the one way to heaven. You seem to know some about the faith and are rejecting the truth. Please, turn back from this path.

There are no other “gods”. There is only the one true God.

 

[Tobias65]

No one “worships Mary” and she herself would not encourage such worship. She always directs us to her Son. This is error on your part. Mary and the rest of the Saints intervene on behalf as if you were to ask someone to pray for you. The Saints are alive in God in Heaven.

You are attempting to “tacitly” “prove” your error, and you are in error. There is no other god but God. Everything you say is against the first commandment. You are not a Christian if you hold your heretical views. You are a pagan.

You also either don’t understand my faith or are purposely working against it. I hope you are ignorant and not working for darker forces.

Please seek out a holy priest, RCIA, or some other source, but do not continue on these forums to spread error. You are acting out of pride to prove your point.

Jesus said most clearly, he is the one way to heaven. You seem to know some about the faith and are rejecting the truth. Please, turn back from this path.

There are no other “gods”. There is only the one true God.

I have not accused you or anybody else of worshiping Mary. I’ve merely suggested that there has possibly been someone, over the past two thousand years, who has mistakenly worshiped her. Perhaps you know better and are sure this has never happened. But maybe for a moment you could play along, and just imagine; that if anybody has ever worshiped her and made her into another god in their heart; does that make Mary herself evil?

I know Athena has been worshiped, and idols have been made in her image. What I’m suggesting is; what if the entity we know as Athena is really an angel or a saint? Does the fact that people have worshiped her make her evil? I most certainly hope not! I would hate to be condemned to hell simply because some idiot decides to worship me someday in the future and I am powerless to stop them!

You said: “Everything you say is against the first commandment.” Actually I’m agreeing with the first commandment. I believe there are other gods and that we should not worship them.

What do you believe the very first commandment means, if you deny the existence of other gods? What’s the point? Why the priority in the list of commandments, if indeed there isn’t anybody else to worship? And how do you suppose that your believing that there are no other gods makes you a better Christian than me; when God Himself seems to state that there are other gods who we are not supposed to worship?

 

[Tobias65]

You know, the level of hypocrisy here is just astounding! You would think that a Catholic of all people would know the difference between what is worship and what isn’t. Never once have a said a prayer to Athena that is as long as one single Hail Mary; yet for some reason I am accused of being a pagan while “no one worships Mary.”

 

[AlanFromWichita]

No one “worships Mary” and she herself would not encourage such worship. She always directs us to her Son. This is error on your part. Mary and the rest of the Saints intervene on behalf as if you were to ask someone to pray for you. The Saints are alive in God in Heaven.

You are attempting to “tacitly” “prove” your error, and you are in error. There is no other god but God. Everything you say is against the first commandment. You are not a Christian if you hold your heretical views. You are a pagan.

You also either don’t understand my faith** or are purposely working against it. I hope you are ignorant and not working for darker forces.**

Please seek out a holy priest, RCIA, or some other source, but do not continue on these forums to spread error. You are acting out of pride to prove your point.

Jesus said most clearly, he is the one way to heaven. **You seem to know some about the faith and are rejecting the truth. **Please, turn back from this path.

There are no other “gods”. There is only the one true God.

This is amazing, even for your posting style as of late. I’ve about had it with you first of all telling everyone else they are wrong, and then also telling them about their motives. And here you truncated a quote to take it out of context and completely reverse its meaning, and are claiming the quoted poster is in error because of it. That is just plain deception and calumny.

And you know more than we do about what we are thinking and feeling. You have injected nefarious motives on the part of other posters for doing nothing wrong except being mis-quoted by you!

You are singlehandedly making reasonable, respectful discussions impossible. I have warned you before as have several others and you continue undaunted in your confrontational and dishonest posting behavior. Far be it from me to guess your motives the way you do others. I am going to begin reporting posts such as this, for being full of ad hominem attacks.

Sincerely,
Alan

 

[LegoGE1947]

This is amazing, even for your posting style as of late. I’ve about had it with you first of all telling everyone else they are wrong, and then also telling them about their motives. And here you truncated a quote to take it out of context and completely reverse its meaning, and are claiming the quoted poster is in error because of it. That is just plain deception and calumny.

And you know more than we do about what we are thinking and feeling. You have injected nefarious motives on the part of other posters for doing nothing wrong except being mis-quoted by you!

You are singlehandedly making reasonable, respectful discussions impossible. I have warned you before as have several others and you continue undaunted in your confrontational and dishonest posting behavior. Far be it from me to guess your motives the way you do others. I am going to begin reporting posts such as this, for being full of ad hominem attacks.

Sincerely,
Alan

The Church Honors Mary and the other Saints but does not worship them. Worship and Adoration are reserved for God alone. There are I understand Greek words that are translated how we treat Mary and how we treat the other Saints." Hyperdulia" is the honor we give to Mary as Mother of Jesus. “Dulia” is the honor we give to the rest of the saints. I hope I spelled those words correctly. No doubt that in 2000 years of Church history there have been some “nut-jobs” that have tried to “worship” Mary or some other Saints but official Church teaching does not knowingly permit this.

 

[vames]

What about the likes of John Shelby Sponge and other so-called Christian Atheists? The claim these people can’t corrupt Christianity from within isn’t something I can take seriously. Indeed, I think the state Church of Finland is funded almost entirely by nonbelievers who think of it as part of their “cultural” heritage.

Also, when you say some priests “spice up” the perceived dryness and rationalism of the official religion with something more intense, exotic or mystical" - surely you must mean the Latin Mass? Most descriptions of that form of the Mass boast of how it is more intense and mysterious (since few people can actually understand it - which leads to the “exotic” part). Surely, even though the insistence on Latin may make it seem like people are treating the Mass as some kind of magic ritual, one ought to be more charitable.

I’ll take a syncretist or a pagan any day over an agnostic or an atheist. If you think spiritual blindness is better than spiritual myopia, I can’t understand your way of thinking.

Re priests who “spice up” the official religion - I was referring to one of the comments linked in my post (“At my parish they have Zen-Meditation courses every week”, said the Swedish poster), not to the Latin Mass.
I suspect that the ironic paradox with the Latin Mass is that it is revived and promoted precisely to restore the old structure of Catholic worship and faith, “purged” of Protestant and pagan elements, but in fact it ends up by attracting precisely the young people who yearn for all things intense, exotic, elitist and mysterious - quite the stuff many people who are into New Age spirituality are attracted to. But does it mean that New Agers have a greater chance to become Traditional Catholics? From what I gather (but maybe I’m wrong), New Agers cherish freedom and informality, while Trad Catholics want the opposite - discipline and strict rules.

Re “my way of thinking”: in my previous post I only wanted to figure out why the Church and many Christians are more reticent towards New Age than towards atheists; I don’t claim to have a firm opinion on what is more conducive to or more dangerous to Christianity.
I have personally known 1) cradle Catholics and Orthodox whose faith has devolved into cultural Christianity and Christian atheism and who are dissappointed in their own incapacity to stick to the whole faith of their childhood and parents; 2) cradle Catholics and Orthodox whose faith has devolved into a funny mixture of superstitions and syncretic beliefs; 3) an atheist who converted to Catholicism a long time ago and is happy and firm in his faith; 4) a few cradle secularists who are attracted to New Age and sometimes take it seriously, but reject any organized religion, because they perceive it as oppressive. So I can’t draw a conclusion.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

The Church Honors Mary and the other Saints but does not worship them. Worship and Adoration are reserved for God alone. There are I understand Greek words that are translated how we treat Mary and how we treat the other Saints." Hyperdulia" is the honor we give to Mary as Mother of Jesus. “Dulia” is the honor we give to the rest of the saints. I hope I spelled those words correctly. No doubt that in 2000 years of Church history there have been some “nut-jobs” that have tried to “worship” Mary or some other Saints but official Church teaching does not knowingly permit this.

This is interesting information; I’ve never heard of “hyperdulia” before.

But I’m not sure why you quoted my post. It was specifically directed toward another post by Cadian, regarding the posting style.

Alan

 

[Cadian]

Sincerely,

There is nothing sincere in your post. There never is. You hide behind faux sincerity and politcally correct language. Trolling is trolling as are all your posts and I will treat them as such. It is YOU who continue to want to engage with me. After I posted yesterday that I was done arguing with you, I ment just that. I am done. I don’t argue with trolls.